Stipe Miocic is the living proof that a pro boxer with TDD would become UFC champ

[Thunderflash500]

Did you just start watching MMA? Did you miss Chuck Liddel? Of course great wrestling and boxing make a deadly fighter. It's just super rare for someone to have both. It's hard enough to master a single skill.

(Not saying Chuck had great skills compared to boxing champs, but compared to everyone else in the UFC he was extremely dangerous with stand up. Improved skills would have obviously only helped him.)

 

[Zeppeling]

Stipe was a regional Golden Gloves champion. Even though this is only a low-level accomplishment, it puts him leagues ahead of most MMA fighters. In fact, he has knocked out pretty much all of his opponents with very basic boxing skills. Naive posters will point out that pro boxers would just get taken down and submitted, but they are missing some important points:

Plenty of boxers have wrestled/grappled before, take Lomachenko for instance, he used to be a grappling prodigy. Pro Boxers are A-level athletes, so it is natural for them to have excelled in other sports as youngsters. The thing is, the money in boxing is just that much better, MMA fighters are paid pennies on the dollar, there is no reason at all for a young A-level athlete go work for Dana.
On top of that, Pro Boxers have incomparable work-ethic, with as little as one year of training they could develop very sound grappling skills. As ESPN acknowledges, boxing is the most demanding sport.

http://www.espn.com/espn/page2/sportSkills

Can You explain how a pro boxer is any more of an athlete than an mma fighter? Both are sports with low pay unless you're the top 20%, no good athletes above 185 lb go pro boxing. Why are mma fans so obsessed with other sports having better athletes? Did van heeden or w.e his name is seem more athletic than Conor?

 

[Mr140]

A few years of grappling isn't a boxer with tdd. It's a mixed martial artist with.excellent boxing. That's my point.

Yea in order to learn that they have to grapple and learn how to stop take downs. I do not think boxer could just go in with no training and win but transition might not be as hard as people make it out to be. There have been many guys who have come in training with combat back ground in mma and do well. All the good boxers who are the ones that could do make more money in boxing so they stay there. In the next few years maybe a boxer in his prime might want to give it try and like to see how it goes. Conner making the sport seem more of a option to maybe give it try because there money to be made and give a reason for them to try. Right now in order to make a living you have to be few guys at the top even then all the control is under one banner so getting payed high is a bitch.

 

[MPD-Psycho]

Philosophically the moment a boxer possesses TDD he becomes a MMAist.

 

[20falarVerdades]

Can You explain how a pro boxer is any more of an athlete than an mma fighter? Both are sports with low pay unless you're the top 20%, no good athletes above 185 lb go pro boxing. Why are mma fans so obsessed with other sports having better athletes? Did van heeden or w.e his name is seem more athletic than Conor?

Bigger pool of talent, boxing is an olympic sport, therefore a lot of people start boxing in a very young age under state-sponsored programs. They are literally bred to be boxers and by the time they turn pro they have already had 100+ amateurs fights. People who can't make it are weeded out early... MMA just isn't that big. You can be a bum like Artem Lobov in the most prestigious organization

 

[Myrddin Wild]

We can only make assumptions. We have NEVER seen someone who trained boxing since a very young age and was successful in his craft make a transition to MMA. It wouldn't make sense financially for them. Imagine a Khabib equivalent of a boxer training at a reputable camp... in 2-3 years they would be absolutely killers.

2 or 3 yearz is certainly realistic for a great (or even good) athlete with a lifetime of boxing to transfer into MMA.

My replyz have been about the OP which said "as little as a year."... I'm just saying, that one year isn't quite enough.

 

[Zeppeling]

Bigger pool of talent, boxing is an olympic sport, therefore a lot of people start boxing in a very young age under state-sponsored programs. They are literally bred to be boxers and by the time they turn pro they have already had 100+ amateurs fights. People who can't make it are weeded out early... MMA just isn't that big. You can be a bum like Artem Lobov in the most prestigious organization

Is that why Jones dominates all wrestlers that are bred and done it since kids? Olympic Cormier? Is that why dj handled Olympic a level gold Olympian cejudo? Olympic doesn't mean shit, Floyd lost to a Serbian bum in the fucking olympics.

 

[tombombadil]

Heavyweight is a bit different, so ya, but not for every div, I dont think.

Not many HWs with a fast shot. There are a handful of guys in every other div that WILL get you down at some point.

However, with the current fasttracking to title shots, yes, its possible to only have to fight one guy in a division - that being the champ - without having to prove yourself against an assortment of stylistic matchups.

 

[capnlarge]

I think boxing is a great striking art for MMA. But "Great takedown defense" is easier said than done. Basically what you're saying is that someone who is great at striking and grappling could be champ and I agree with that.

 

[20falarVerdades]

Is that why Jones dominates all wrestlers that are bred and done it since kids? Olympic Cormier? Is that why dj handled Olympic a level gold Olympian cejudo? Olympic doesn't mean shit, Floyd lost to a Serbian bum in the fucking olympics.

LOL Floyd got fucking robbed at the olympics, do you even history ? Also your post doesn't even make sense, do you really think MMA has a deeper talent pool than boxing?

 

[Pem123]

Did Conor wrestle his whole life too? He was a lackluster amateur irish boxer and still knocked out 90% of two divisions. Imagine what an A-level pro boxer like Canelo Alvarez would do with some TDD training

Conor also has trained in Kickboxing and BJJ all his life.

people like pretend Conor is just a boxer, he is not. he is pretty good Kickboxer with some Flashy TKD/Karate style kicking and pretty good BJJ.

he is brown belt in BJJ too.

 

[Zeppeling]

LOL Floyd got fucking robbed at the olympics, do you even history ? Also your post doesn't even make sense, do you really think MMA has a deeper talent pool than boxing?

No it sure doesn't. But every high level combat sport have people whom transfer over: kick boxers, Jim jitsu, Muay Thai, and boxers. If all it took was a journeyman with tdd, then we'd have a ton more beasts in mma. Guess what? There aren't that many successful boxers in mma for s reason. And it has nothing to do with pay, because journeymen in boxing get no cash or sponsors either,

 

[Area809]

Stephan Bonnar was a "golden gloves" champ ya goof. Lmao

 

[Homervanderjaz]

Stipe was a regional Golden Gloves champion. Even though this is only a low-level accomplishment, it puts him leagues ahead of most MMA fighters. In fact, he has knocked out pretty much all of his opponents with very basic boxing skills. Naive posters will point out that pro boxers would just get taken down and submitted, but they are missing some important points:

Plenty of boxers have wrestled/grappled before, take Lomachenko for instance, he used to be a grappling prodigy. Pro Boxers are A-level athletes, so it is natural for them to have excelled in other sports as youngsters. The thing is, the money in boxing is just that much better, MMA fighters are paid pennies on the dollar, there is no reason at all for a young A-level athlete go work for Dana.
On top of that, Pro Boxers have incomparable work-ethic, with as little as one year of training they could develop very sound grappling skills. As ESPN acknowledges, boxing is the most demanding sport.

http://www.espn.com/espn/page2/sportSkills

it's not all about TDD. Have you learnt nothing from watching years of MMA? What will the boxer do when he gets kicked in the face or a flying knee comes his way? So the next point will be a boxer who learns to kick as well as TDD... eventually it will be a boxer who learns to grapple as well. Effectively he would no longer simply be a boxer at this point. if you love boxing so much maybe watch more of it and post in a boxing forum? Stipe is a MMA and not simply a boxer.

 

[20falarVerdades]

it's not all about TDD. Have you learnt nothing from watching years of MMA? What will the boxer do when he gets kicked in the face or a flying knee comes his way? So the next point will be a boxer who learns to kick as well as TDD... eventually it will be a boxer who learns to grapple as well. Effectively he would no longer simply be a boxer at this point. if you love boxing so much maybe watch more of it and post in a boxing forum? Stipe is a MMA and not simply a boxer.

A-level boxers are extremely resilient and would adapt to kicks/takedown attempts. Nate Diaz, who is just a punching bag to Andre Ward, beat Cowboy without throwing a single kick.

 

[MuayThaiBX]

Stipe is champ because he is the most well rounded HW. He is not A+ at anything but he is an A or A- at everything. He is good enough in every area that he can find weaknesses in less well rounded fighters and exploit them. The rest of the HW division is more specialists.

 

[20falarVerdades]

Yea in order to learn that they have to grapple and learn how to stop take downs. I do not think boxer could just go in with no training and win but transition might not be as hard as people make it out to be. There have been many guys who have come in training with combat back ground in mma and do well. All the good boxers who are the ones that could do make more money in boxing so they stay there. In the next few years maybe a boxer in his prime might want to give it try and like to see how it goes. Conner making the sport seem more of a option to maybe give it try because there money to be made and give a reason for them to try. Right now in order to make a living you have to be few guys at the top even then all the control is under one banner so getting payed high is a bitch.

If MMA were to become financially viable, there would be a huge selection bias for boxers with a grappling background. Lots of boxers outside America dabble in sports like wrestling/judo/sambo/boxing until they are 16, and then they choose their best sport, a good example is Khabib. Just imagine Vasyl Lomachenko training 1-2 years at Jackson's MMA and then fighting bums like Cody Garbrandt




He would do the equivalent of what Khabib does, but standing.

 

[Thesnake101]

Ok, seriously, what's behind this new found boxing obsession on Sherdog?

I blame @Hi-Tech

 

[Thesnake101]

Agreed 100%.

I've been a fan of the UFC since day 1, and I've always thought the same thing. An elite boxer with excellent TDD would clean up. Basic amateur boxers with TDD like Stipe and Conor are proof of that.

And yeah, elite boxers are the cream of the crop of all athletes. To be a true elite boxer you have to have everything - speed, power, timing, accuracy, stamina, toughness, work ethic, patience, and courage.

You're right about the work ethic too. Most of them have been training like pros since they were little kids. You have to be supremely dedicated and work very hard to be a good pro boxer.

There's a little problem with what you're saying - and it's not the fact that Stipe is also a wrestler and used his wrestling skills to beat Hunt and Overeem, it's the fact that both Stipe and Conor have trained specifically for MMA. Meaning that their style of striking takes into account that they can get their leg kicked out from under them, arm broken by blocking a kick the wrong way, head kicked in, kneed on the clinch and etc.

I agree in the sentiment that Boxing is the best striking base for MMA, but a boxer with TDD alone would get his ass kicked by Muay Thai guys and Kickboxers. Not because they're better strikers than him, but because they're more complete. The boxer would have no idea what to do against kicks or how to get out of the Thai plum. Yes, the boxer could catch those guys, but he could also get caught himself.

A one dimensional fighter with only one good trait won't dominate MMA, they could accomplish a lot, but they won't stay at the top for long.

 

[jeff7b9]

This thread is living proof that some sherdoggers are retarded.