STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI

[Deleted member 110072]

I like ROGUE ONE but it curiously escapes the "SJW-agenda" pejorative despite also being a female-led team of shoehorned minority players. People have said Jyn Erso is a better character than Rey but for the life of me I can't really understand how much better. Maybe because they all die, and that's how you like your women and people of color.

I tend to believe ROGUE ONE's appeal lies chiefly in being steeped in all the old shit. It's super safe.

I would say the difference is we don't see a female protagonist who's defining feature is how strong she is, rather one with physical and moral weaknesses that makes for a far better plot.

I would say TFA is far more guilty of playing on Nostalgia, abrams to basically screaming "Look the Millennium Falcon!", "Look X-wings!" or "Look lightsabers!" pushing these elements down your throat along of course with lifting most of his plot from ANH.

 

[TrueBias]

I like ROGUE ONE but it curiously escapes the "SJW-agenda" pejorative despite also being a female-led team of shoehorned minority players. People have said Jyn Erso is a better character than Rey but for the life of me I can't really understand how much better. Maybe because they all die, and that's how you like your women and people of color.

I tend to believe ROGUE ONE's appeal lies chiefly in being steeped in all the old shit. It's super safe.

I'll take super safe over an atomic bomb in any galaxy.

 

[jlagman]

Is everyone dying predetermined? even if it were that certainly doesn't mean you can't have strong drama which I think it did.

I would say just the opposite, this is the first film since the originals that actually feels like STarwars. The prequels and the sequels had references to the originals of course but in terms of their style/tone they did not feel the same to me where as Rogue One captured the atmosphere and the tone of the originals far better for me.

They turned that, into a whole fucking movie.

 

[90 50]

They turned that, into a whole fucking movie.

But wasn’t that in return? Not the new hope?

I don’t think they mentioned bothans or anyone dying to get the plans in a new hope they could have all fucking lived if anyone had payed attention instead of making a movie based around a meme that they didn’t even get

There weren’t even any botbans in rouge one

 

[TrueBias]

Yah, I still feel like I'm either being trolled or some of you are contrarians. The arguments I'm routinely seeing is about taking it in a new direction, more or less. I've yet to see an argument as to, one, that it's a good idea, and two, that they did do that and that it was a success.

I can't even dumb myself down to see anything likeable. Or. Reserved judgment until the entire trilogy is finished.

Too many silly moments, too many unexplained decisions, too many lackluster battles in a sci fi action. And, like rogue one, too many characters that are flawed.

Rogue One, had some shitty characters, yes, but all their motives were clear enough and their purposes pushed a relatively (thankfully) simple story.

The Last Jedi has a Mary sue, a motiveless villain whom has already been bested, throw away characters, throw away nostalgic icons, oh, a black guy, an Asian girl, and a purple haired idiot, all 3 with nothing to do.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

Honestly I think the big issue some have with Rogue One is exactly because it stayed more inline with the originals in terms of style rather than being a modern cartoonish hyperactive thrill ride.

 

[90 50]

So I caved and bought it, I said I wouldn’t but I did.

Came home and supprised my kid with it, such excitement.

“Oh daddy the NEW Star Wars!! “ yay, let’s watch it.

5 minutes in,

“This isn’t the new one, this the one we saw in the theater “

Yeah buddy the new one, the next one isn’t out yet

20 mins later

“ daddy, when will this be over?” I’m bored , can we put in empire strikes back??

This mother fucking dvd is gonna sit on the shelf, unwatched for the rest of eternity.

I thought I would give it a secound go, for him. Nope, he won’t even watch it. He’d rather watch empire that he has to watch 3-4 times a fucking week, than rewatch this piece of shit.

That’s saying something.

 

[jlagman]

But wasn’t that in return? Not the new hope?

I don’t think they mentioned bothans or anyone dying to get the plans in a new hope they could have all fucking lived if anyone had payed attention instead of making a movie based around a meme that they didn’t even get

There weren’t even any botbans in rouge one

It served the bones of the entire plot of Rogue One; the Empire created a super weapon, we have to send spies on a suicide mission. The thing about cinematic suicide missions, is that the audience should care about those characters and what good is that if the characters were blandly written and acted, with most of their deaths being pretty meaningless?

How much does that cheapen the suspense of the first appearance of the Death Star in ANH and Leia's reaction to the destruction of Alderaan?

 

[90 50]

Honestly I think the big issue some have with Rogue One is exactly because it stayed more inline with the originals in terms of style rather than being a modern cartoonish hyperactive thrill ride.

That’s why it’s my favorite out of everything outside of 4-6, it FEELS like SW.

The other shit is too silly most of the time. At least the prequels had more substance along with the silly shit.

 

[minute bull]

LOL. "Daddy, can we put in EMPIRE STRIKES BACK." Great kid there.

I would say the difference is we don't see a female protagonist who's defining feature is how strong she is, rather one with physical and moral weaknesses that makes for a far better plot.

What's Jyn's physical weakness? Is it looking like Eddie Redmayne? Was it the limp at the end there? I'm discounting what you say for comedic effect, so don't get me wrong -- but at the same time I'm not one who prescribes to the idea Rey is a Mary Sue, especially in TLJ -- which pits her against some real turmoil, inner and outer.

The only real difference I can tell is we get to see Jyn be abandoned while Rey's history is preferred as a mystery.

I would say TFA is far more guilty of playing on Nostalgia...

That's certainly true, but I'm not trying to establish a hierarchy of pandering here. It's more of the discrepancy of why R1 gets the pass that TLJ absolutely doesn't.

Kathleen Kennedy probably liked it. She probably thinks Holdo is cool and Luke being dead is exciting. She has a ton of confidence in Rian Johnson. She was George Lucas' #2 for a long time, so while she may be a good administrator I don't think she's a creative force. She hasn't had to be. But she does get to green light stuff.

I don't know how creative she is -- I think her main strength is knowing the audience, not just the STAR WARS audience, but everyone and endeavoring to expand the mythos so that everyone can feel like they've got an avatar within the universe. It's not that we couldn't already do this with the pre-established White-ass characters, but the fact is there's no reason that STAR WARS needs to keep its cast homogeneous.

The difficulty is some audience members fail to see the appeal in the new character arcs and so they conjure up a different problem, which is the "social agenda." It's like it's not enough that the writing simply isn't great to them, they've got to actively find a culprit to loathe.

I guess if you can't find a good enough Snoke in the film, you must create him yourself.

Yah, I still feel like I'm either being trolled or some of you are contrarians. The arguments I'm routinely seeing is about taking it in a new direction, more or less. I've yet to see an argument as to, one, that it's a good idea, and two, that they did do that and that it was a success.

That's because you don't want to listen, and that's understandable considering your childhood being raped.

 

[jlagman]

Yah, I still feel like I'm either being trolled or some of you are contrarians. The arguments I'm routinely seeing is about taking it in a new direction, more or less. I've yet to see an argument as to, one, that it's a good idea, and two, that they did do that and that it was a success.

I can't even dumb myself down to see anything likeable. Or. Reserved judgment until the entire trilogy is finished.

Too many silly moments, too many unexplained decisions, too many lackluster battles in a sci fi action. And, like rogue one, too many characters that are flawed.

Rogue One, had some shitty characters, yes, but all their motives were clear enough and their purposes pushed a relatively (thankfully) simple story.

The Last Jedi has a Mary sue, a motiveless villain whom has already been bested, throw away characters, throw away nostalgic icons, oh, a black guy, an Asian girl, and a purple haired idiot, all 3 with nothing to do.

Again, much of the blame can be shared by Abrams for introducing such characters to begin with.

 

[90 50]

It served the bones of the entire plot of Rogue One; the Empire created a super weapon, we have to send spies on a suicide mission. The thing about cinematic suicide missions, is that the audience should care about those characters and what good is that if the characters were blandly written and acted, with most of their deaths being pretty meaningless?

How much does that cheapen the suspense of the first appearance of the Death Star in ANH and Leia's reaction to the destruction of Alderaan?

I get that, but I’m 99% sure mon motha says that in Jedi, not new hope. So no they didn’t all have to die, so it wasn’t a predetermined outcome.

I like the way they did it, I’m just saying the outcome of every character wasn’t predetermined going in

 

[TrueBias]

LOL. "Daddy, can we put in EMPIRE STRIKES BACK." Great kid there.



What's Jyn's physical weakness? Is it looking like Eddie Redmayne? Was it the limp at the end there? I'm discounting what you say for comedic effect, so don't get me wrong -- but at the same time I'm not one who prescribes to the idea Rey is a Mary Sue, especially in TLJ -- which pits her against some real turmoil, inner and outer.

The only real difference I can tell is we get to see Jyn be abandoned while Rey's history is preferred as a mystery.


That's certainly true, but I'm not trying to establish a hierarchy of pandering here. It's more of the discrepancy of why R1 gets the pass that TLJ absolutely doesn't.


I don't know how creative she is -- I think her main strength is knowing the audience, not just the STAR WARS audience, but everyone and endeavoring to expand the mythos so that everyone can feel like they've got an avatar within the universe. It's not that we couldn't already do this with the pre-established White-ass characters, but the fact is there's no reason that STAR WARS needs to keep its cast homogeneous.

The difficulty is some audience members fail to see the appeal in the new character arcs and so they conjure up a different problem, which is the "social agenda." It's like it's not enough that the writing simply isn't great to them, they've got to actively find a culprit to loathe.

I guess if you can't find a good enough Snoke in the film, you must create him yourself.



That's because you don't want to listen, and that's understandable considering your childhood being raped.

If it isn't broken, don't fix it.

Second time I've said this.

 

[minute bull]

If it isn't broken, don't fix it.

Second time I've said this.

That's the dumbest statement made in this thread and you made it more than once. I can't believe you'd admit to it, let alone be proud of it.

 

[TrueBias]

Again, much of the blame can be shared by Abrams for introducing such characters to begin with.

Ah c'mon, you can't do these movies without anyone asking where the original cast is when they were alive during production. It's a definite missed opportunity.

Perhaps if the series was an anthology, but its practically folklore. This is the world that was created.

 

[jlagman]

I get that, but I’m 99% sure mon motha says that in Jedi, not new hope. So no they didn’t all have to die, so it wasn’t a predetermined outcome.

I like the way they did it, I’m just saying the outcome of every character wasn’t predetermined going in

It was clearly set up as a suicide mission and the only other characters who are tied into any other SW film were Vader and Leia...forgive me for not being as surprised as some of the fan boys who might not have seen it coming.

 

[TrueBias]

That's the dumbest statement made in this thread and you made it more than once. I can't believe you'd admit to it, let alone be proud of it.

Best learn it, son.

Movie is a 5/10. Convince me it's more.

 

[jlagman]

Ah c'mon, you can't do these movies without anyone asking where the original cast is when they were alive during production. It's a definite missed opportunity.

Perhaps if the series was an anthology, but its practically folklore. This is the world that was created.

Abrams could have made Finn not shit or he could have made Kylo more than just a less-hateable Anakin, for starters. Sometimes the next guy ends up having to polish turds.

 

[minute bull]

Best learn it, son.

Convince you? Shall I use empty adages since new ideas seem lost on you?

Stop getting butthurt over a movie. It's a movie. It's not real life. It doesn't owe you a thing. Your dollars are meaningless. Read back what I said: movie.

Boy, this IS easy.

 

[90 50]

It was clearly set up as a suicide mission and the only other characters who are tied into any other SW film were Vader and Leia...forgive me for not being as surprised as some of the fan boys who might not have seen it coming.

In SW just because something is set up as a suicede mission doesn’t mean they don’t get out of it.

Flying into asteroid fields, attacking a Death Star with a tie fighter, you get the point.


On another topic, with the hate for poes funny quirk lines they missed the best opertunity for one

Leia: You can’t just hop into an x-wing and blow shit up
Poe: isn’t that what your brother is famous for?