STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI

[Guestx]

I don't wanna make any guesses on that front but I do think he must dislike the ammount of creative control given to Johnson as opposed to what he had to work with. The Force Awakens had A LOT of the so-called committee thinking where a lot of it was carefully calculated and probably a result of Disney making several demands (not that JJ would necessarily be opposed to any of it) where as with Johnson they just gave him the steering wheel and took a nap.

Like one of the guys from RLM said, the most shocking thing was that Disney took the entire Star Wars universe and the direction it was headed and gave it (and I quote) "some guy".

LOL "some guy." Rian Johnson did make Brick, which is a great film. A lot of people liked Looper too, though I wasn't as high in that one.

What I actually heard was that JJ had a whole story laid out for the trilogy but instead of giving it to RJ he told RJ to do his own thing and use his own creativity to build upon the foundation that was laid with TFA. He didn't WANT RJ to just follow his plan.

 

[Bloody Pulp]

It's amazing how much he undercut his own triumphs achieved in the original versions. The final scenes involving Luke, Vader and the Emperor in Return of the Jedi are the best stuff in the entire series of films.

I've said earlier, Lucas seems to not appreciate the value of silence. He's like the filmmaker version of the guy that starts yapping about anything when the conversation takes a pause for three seconds, simply because he can't bear the silence. Adding the scream as Luke falls in Empire, and the NOOO as Vader throws the Emperor down the shaft effectively ruin two of the best scenes in film history.

He achieved great things with the first three films, but when it came time for the prequels, he had nobody to pull him back from his "more more more" approach. More lightsabers, more droids, more people in the frame, more R2D2 noises, more ships in the frame.

The original trilogy is like the Mona Lisa, and the prequels are like the Mona Lisa with all her friends crammed in at her sides, some castles and dragons behind her, some fireworks going off above her, she's holding three fans in one hand and five sceptres in the other... George Lucas is brilliant, but he can't govern himself effectively.

I fixed it! - George Lucas

 

[Tiny]

"The movies are for children but they don't want to admit that... There is a small group of fans that do not like comic sidekicks. They want the films to be tough like The Terminator, and they get very upset and opinionated about anything that has anything to do with being childlike."

-- George Lucas

guess what fella?

when the original star wars came out, their wasn't any such thing as "merchandizing" or toy manufacturing for movies. As such, incase you are too fucking stupid to realize it...the first 3 movies still have a semblance of a story there. It may not be an ORIGINAL story but it was a story. And while their was stuff kids could cling onto...and their were very little swear words, no nudity...it did have violence. It did have content for adults and their was no such thing as shit placed in just to sell toys.

EVEN THE EWOKS SERVED A PURPOSE TO THE PLOT. (was to show you that low tech out manned and out gunned band of teddy bears still had the courage to fight and defend themselves...oh and they were originally suppose to be wookies but budget reasons cut them in half.)

What's the fucking purpose of a porge? Or that crystal fox bullshit? Or those weird speeder things that do nothing but kick up salt?

Why the fuck was luke nothing like the luke we left on return of the jedi??? time? if that's the excuse for bad writing, my brain doesn't ignore it.

 

[7even]

I grew up a YUGE Christopher Reeves/Superman fan.


This is Superman.

I don't know who the fuck this is suppose to be;

Where I would run around as a kid with a fucking red cape on at recess. It got me into Superman, and I started collecting the DC Superman comics and right now have a collection of graphic novels and the like as I enjoy the character greatly.

I have yet to have watched Justice League. Oh...I CAN watch Justice League. I mean here it is in all HD glory;

https://solarmoviez.ru/movie/justice-league-22756.html

I watched exactly 2 minutes of the intro scene and that was only to see the uncanny valley of Supes upper lip. Because I wanted to shake my head and laugh. And I LIKE Joss Wheddon. Yuge fan of Buffy, Yuge fan of Firefly and the Avengers 1 was one of my top hero films, but even I knew he couldn't save this mess.

Why am I telling you this?

Because this last movie was soooo fucking bad, that it is now like DC movies for me. Like Superman, these movies have destroyed my childhood heros and these new protagonists they want me to connect with are either a

- Mary Sue
- or a SJW agenda driven character.
- shallow as a puddle with zero character arc.

Their is sooo much fucking Star Wars shoved down our throats, do you think a new movie is now a big deal? Cause it isn't. They happen every 6 months. And their will be a fucking tv show to tide you over inbetween.

So trust me when I tell you that their is NO DESIRE IN ANY PART OF MY SOUL to care about this last movie chalk full of SJW agenda driven crap for me to want to watch it. And it won't matter how much flashy light saber shit you pile in. George has already desensatized me from any of that cheap eye candy crap.

I'm so over this over killed, over saturated, SJW adgenda marketed for kids crap.

My standards have surpassed their ability to tell a compelling story.

Christopher Reeves is a boring ass Superman, but since it’s the first Superman movie, everyone now has a pre conceive notion that Superman is supposed to be like that in every fucking medium of the character. Superman been writing by many different writers throughout its existence. Man Of Steel is the most comic book accurate Superman movie, because every time he fights a over power alien or an powerful entity, the whole city gets trashed and people die. You had that boring Superman in Superman Returns, and it was fucking boring as fuck, and it flopped. So now they are going to revert back to it to keep fans like you happy, and the same shit is going to happen with a kid friendly boring ass movie. Justice League sucked because the studio tried to please fans like you by turning it into a Marval movie. You probably don’t even read Superman comics.

 

[Loiosh]

I'm so tired of this gif.

It's a half second on loop of a pretty epic, magnificently choreographed battle.

It didn't look that bad in the actual film, where it's obvious they're looking for an opening to strike.

 

[minute bull]

Elaborate on this.

A major theme of his commentary expressed dismay over the difficulty of getting the characters to interact with the right tone. He kept saying that. The right tone. It was hard to get the tone right.

Abrams is pure television, so that's his focus and even there he had problems. The result is as we see it: lukewarm characters with threadbare motives, just going along with it. This is television plotting, where the onus is rewarding longtime viewers with a barrage of constant promises. You would think this mentality does well in serialized films, but it's the opposite.

Now that there's more meat to the characters he helped establish, he should have any easier time getting the tone right, and hopefully that'll free him up to flesh out his nominally vacuous plot points and bolster his visual narrative.

 

[Tiny]

Christopher Reeves is a boring ass Superman, but since it’s the first Superman movie, everyone now has a pre conceive notion that Superman is supposed to be like that in every fucking medium of the character. Superman been writing by many different writers throughout its existence. Man Of Steel is the most comic book accurate Superman movie, because every time he fights a over power alien of entity, the whole city gets trashed and people die. You had that boring Superman in Superman Returns, and it was fucking boring as fuck, now they are going to revert back to it to keep fans like you happy, and the same shit is going to happen with a kid friendly boring as movie. You probably don’t even read Superman comics.

Superman doesn't smash enemies through populated builds
He doesn't disregard people in danger or cause danger
He has a simplistic moral code and values (like a boy scout)
He has an alter ego and that needs to make sense...at least put SOME effort in trying to put on a different character act instead of simply wearing glasses
That suit looks fucking stupid and is designed like shit. Why a muddy red? Superman is suppose to be bright and colorful and symbolize hope. He doesn't read like that with muddy colors or an "edgey" S. The lack of the red underwear looks weird as the negative space from his S to his boots is off balanced. And the digital cape looks digital.
Superman doesnt need artificial ABS.
He doesn't mope around and look like saving people is a chore.

It's a comic book.

This is Superman.



This is stupid.

 

[MiniCraque]

LOL "some guy." Rian Johnson did make Brick, which is a great film. A lot of people liked Looper too, though I wasn't as high in that one.

What I actually heard was that JJ had a whole story laid out for the trilogy but instead of giving it to RJ he told RJ to do his own thing and use his own creativity to build upon the foundation that was laid with TFA. He didn't WANT RJ to just follow his plan.

Obviously "some guy" was an exageration, but it does illustrate the point the Star Wars franchise is so massive that giving complete creative control to a guy that few people would describe as anything more than a competent director is kinda puzzling, specially from Disney.

I mean, they wouldn't let Edgar Wright (who I think it's fair to say was a "bigger name" than Johnson) do his own thing with Ant-Man (an almost meaningless film and titular character), flash forward a couple of years and they give STAR WARS to... some guy.

 

[minute bull]

Superman doesn't smash enemies through populated builds
He doesn't disregard people in danger or cause danger
He has a simplistic moral code and values (like a boy scout)
He has an alter ego and that needs to make sense...at least put SOME effort in trying to put on a different character act instead of simply wearing glasses
That suit looks fucking stupid and is designed like shit. Why a muddy red? Superman is suppose to be bright and colorful and symbolize hope. He doesn't read like that with muddy colors or an "edgey" S. The lack of the red underwear looks weird as the negative space from his S to his boots is off balanced. And the digital cape looks digital.
Superman doesnt need artificial ABS.
He doesn't mope around and look like saving people is a chore.

It's a comic book.

This is Superman.



This is stupid.

I really like the points being made here, so I will tell you this is where being a comic book fan helped me like MAN OF STEEL. I became conspicuously aware characters changed under charge of different writers and artists. Thus my default Batman belongs to Frank Miller and all other iterations are compared to him. But his is a renegade insane Batman that people don't always enjoy. Conversely, there are plenty of other Batmans I still like even though they may clash with Miller's.

I share the same character demands as you do with Superman, that he must inspire. I agree MAN OF STEEL did nothing to convey this element but I was prepared and used to the idea this would be a different take on the character. Allowing for that allowed me to enjoy and open myself to what comes next rather than despise and close off. Even then, it was a bit difficult but I got there.

 

[Guestx]

guess
what fella?

when the original star wars came out, their wasn't any such thing as "merchandizing" or toy manufacturing for movies.

I guess this will surprise you then. . .

"The license for Star Wars action figures was offered in 1976 to the Mego Corporation, which was the leading company in action figures in the 1970s. Mego refused the offer and the license was subsequently picked up by Kenner, a subsidiary of General Mills."

That is from Wikipedia. You'll remember of course that the first film was released in 1977.

I would also recommend the Star Wars episode of The Toys That Made Us, currently on Netflix.

What's the fucking purpose of a porge? Or that crystal fox bullshit?

Well the Crystal foxes served a very specific purpose in the story and that was to show our heroes the way out of their predicament. But more than that, introducing new creatures is part of the world-building of the franchise. It makes the Star Wars universe a living, breathing eco-system.

Why the fuck was luke nothing like the luke we left on return of the jedi??? time?

It's been nearly 40 years since the events in Return of the Jedi. Luke was just a young kid then; he's now a much older man who has been through some shit. Some of the events of his life during this time are related to us; some we have to infer.

We know that the fighting didn't end with the events in ROTJ. The Empire reassembled itself into the First Order. The world has been in a constant state of war and that can wear a person down, even an upbeat guy like Luke.

You said you didn't want a story for kids. Well here you go, this isn't one. Luke's story here is essentially the story of a war veteran who is suffering from PTSD. This is serious shit crossing over the lines into your fantasy story.

 

[Tiny]

I'm so tired of this gif.

It's a half second on loop of a pretty epic, magnificently choreographed battle.

It didn't look that bad in the actual film, where it's obvious they're looking for an opening to strike.

The fact you can call that 20 minute long lightsaber fight "epic" and NOT have your brain shut off as every moment looks like the last moment where nothing happens of any value...is well..wow. You have especially low standards.

What's the difference between your clip or this;

ooo here they are doing the same thing on a cat walk!

Here they are again with lava scenery!

Here's some more lava scenery!

flash flash flash spark spark spark!!!

This is what you and kids do during these scenes;

You really need to up your standards. Their was more going on in the first three star wars movies when people fought. It was just "let's just make the fights longer with more sparks and flashy shit!!!" YEAH!

 

[MiniCraque]

A major theme of his commentary expressed dismay over the difficulty of getting the characters to interact with the right tone. He kept saying that. The right tone. It was hard to get the tone right.

Abrams is pure television, so that's his focus and even there he had problems. The result is as we see it: lukewarm characters with threadbare motives, just going along with it. This is television plotting, where the onus is rewarding longtime viewers with a barrage of constant promises. You would think this mentality does well in serialized films, but it's the opposite.

Now that there's more meat to the characters he helped establish, he should have any easier time getting the tone right, and hopefully that'll free him up to flesh out his nominally vacuous plot points and bolster his visual narrative.

That's an interesting perspective.

I think even people that liked The Last Jedi (myself included) don't particularly like it as an entry into the Star Wars franchise, so hopefully JJ can make something out of everything Johnson left for him.

 

[Tiny]

I guess this will surprise you then. . .

"The license for Star Wars action figures was offered in 1976 to the Mego Corporation, which was the leading company in action figures in the 1970s. Mego refused the offer and the license was subsequently picked up by Kenner, a subsidiary of General Mills."

That is from Wikipedia. You'll remember of course that the first film was released in 1977.

I would also recommend the Star Wars episode of The Toys That Made Us, currently on Netflix.

Star wars finished shooting in mid 76. And merchadising was so popular that lucas was able to squeeze it's rights into his contract. Do you honestly think any movie studio would let that fly now??? As a matter of fact, nobody really knew how popular it woudl be which is why we didn't have toys ready for the christmas following the release. (I don't need to watch the doc...I lived it).

Nope. merchadising was an after thought if it was thought of at all back then. These movies were made for 15-25. Not 2-12.

Come on son. Try harder.

Well the Crystal foxes served a very specific purpose in the story and that was to show our heroes the way out of their predicament. But more than that, introducing new creatures is part of the world-building of the franchise. It makes the Star Wars universe a living, breathing eco-system.

That's the point of the foxes? Lol. That's a very weak. C3P0 or R2 could have easily been writen in to solve the same lame problem that lasted...what? 1 minute of screen time?

It's been nearly 40 years since the events in Return of the Jedi. Luke was just a young kid then; he's now a much older man who has been through some shit. Some of the events of his life during this time are related to us; some we have to infer.

We know that the fighting didn't end with the events in ROTJ. The Empire reassembled itself into the First Order. The world has been in a constant state of war and that can wear a person down, even an upbeat guy like Luke.

oh...so time. you are blaming his 180 character arc to...time. Ok then. let's just pretend more time goes by, and darth becomes good. or the yoda becomes evil! let's put 20 years between justice league and the next batman solo film and have batman be evil. We will just have to infer that "time" made him 180 from how you last saw him!

Time! What a great piece of writing we have here!

You said you didn't want a story for kids. Well here you go, this isn't one. Luke's story here is essentially the story of a war veteran who is suffering from PTSD.

Lukes story is so fucking bad that I didn't even recognize him as "luke". Their were two moments in all his screen time that he had half a semblance of his old character. Alone with R2D2, and his moment with Leia. The rest of the time, it was mark hamill playing some dude moping on an island for reasons...oh wait..yeah..."time"!

 

[Loiosh]

The fact you can call that 20 minute long lightsaber fight "epic" and NOT have your brain shut off as every moment looks like the last moment where nothing happens of any value...is well..wow. You have especially low standards.

What's the difference between your clip or this;

ooo here they are doing the same thing on a cat walk!

Here they are again with lava scenery!

Here's some more lava scenery!

flash flash flash spark spark spark!!!

This is what you and kids do during these scenes;

You really need to up your standards. Their was more going on in the first three star wars movies when people fought. It was just "let's just make the fights longer with more sparks and flashy shit!!!" YEAH!

Let your hate flow through you, youngling, it will make you stronger.

 

[BisexualMMA]

That's an interesting perspective.

I think even people that liked The Last Jedi (myself included) don't particularly like it as an entry into the Star Wars franchise, so hopefully JJ can make something out of everything Johnson left for him.

That's a generous way to put it.

 

[minute bull]

I love the scene where Luke tells Rey to reach out so she stretches out one arm. And then he tickles her hand with a leaf and she's like, "I felt something!"

And he's all, "You do?! THAT'S THE FORCE."

 

[Guestx]

Star wars finished shooting in mid 76. And merchadising was so popular that lucas was able to squeeze it's rights into his contract. Do you honestly think any movie studio would let that fly now??? As a matter of fact, nobody really knew how popular it woudl be which is why we didn't have toys ready for the christmas following the release. (I don't need to watch the doc...I lived it).

Nope. merchadising was an after thought if it was thought of at all back then. These movies were made for 15-25. Not 2-12.

Come on son. Try harder.

LOL.

Just remember . . . son. "There wasn't any such thing as merchandising or toy manufacturing for movies."

 

[Peteyandjia]

I'm so tired of this gif.

It's a half second on loop of a pretty epic, magnificently choreographed battle.

It didn't look that bad in the actual film, where it's obvious they're looking for an opening to strike.

That extended gif you posted still looks like shit.

I liked the Maul/Obi/Taken lightsaber fight in TPM, but that's about it for me as far as the prequel battles go. The final one in ROTS was a'ight, but I hated the movie so the emotional resonance wasn't there.

And of course, the best lightsaber battles are all the Luke vs. Vaders. By a few million miles.

 

[MiniCraque]

That's a generous way to put it.

Yeah, I guess... but Ryan Johnson only fucked up plot points and continuity, the tone wasn't butchered and the characters are more fleshed out.

Obviously JJ has to start over almost from scratch regarding the main plot, but the tone and characters are well set.

 

[BisexualMMA]

Yeah, I guess... but Ryan Johnson only fucked up plot points and continuity, the tone wasn't butchered and the characters are more fleshed out.

Obviously JJ has to start over almost from scratch regarding the main plot, but the tone and characters are well set.

Well, Rian did leave him this guy I guess.

Or maybe he was killed too, probably was.