STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI

If you have seen STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI, how would you rate it?

  • Total voters
    587
Honestly I think what these films really show is that characters like Han and Luke were complete after the original films. These new films basically need to rob them of development we saw in the OT in order to give them a cheap arc as they learn some of it again. What should have happened IMHO is that they shifted more totally into the mentor role ala Obi Wan and Yoda but they wouldn't have allowed for as much nostalgia to be played off of.

Rogue One had the big advantage that it wasn't tied to any of that, the links to the original films were only in setting and some plot elements with totally new characters who could be given decent arcs.
 
Tiny said:
I personally cannot wait for the melenium falcon prequel!
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"Falcon" by Rian Johnson: The Millennium Falcon actually needed 20 parsecs to do the Kessel run and Han was lying the whole time. You were expecting less than twelve, but expectations subverted. Han is a liar and the Falcon is actually a slow, piece of crap spacecraft. Han also cheated in the poker game where he won the ship, but it doesn't matter because Lando had stolen it from an auction that was going to raise funds for a space orphanage.

Third act twist: Han never even did the Kessel run. Neither did the Millennium Falcon. He was just lying all along. And he was a smuggler all those years, but he was smuggling poverty-stricken women into forced intergalactic sex trade labor.
 
Magooglie said:
Maybe they're one and the same. That would be fortunate . . . for you.
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Noooo i need more back story to the melenium falcon! Like how it was assembled at the falcon plant! Who designed it! Its first owner! Where did it first jump to light speed?
 
moreorless87 said:
I'd say the originals are more of a mix of "blockbuster romp" and more seriously considered newwavish action drama and atmospheric setting.

I think part of the problem the new ones have is the current culture that whilst it considers itself "geekish" is actually very strongly "anti geek", the idea of blockbuster cinema taking itself too seriously tends to be heavily looked down on with indeed this often sighted as a key fault of films like the prequels or matrix sequels.

Watching this film and TFA to me feels like the director is sitting next to me constantly saying "look is ok I'm not taking things too seriously!".
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I don't follow the cinema scene so I'm don't know if its the anti geek culture that is to blame but all the new star wars films have a lightweight feel about them as if the director doesn't know if its going to be a serious movie or a plot holed comedy riddled with furry cute creatures, cgi Disney chase scenes for a video game tie in and some melodrama with stilted lines.

Was the reason for not having A level actors because the script and the previous films scared them off?
 
Tiny said:
Noooo i need more back story to the melenium falcon! Like how it was assembled at the falcon plant! Who designed it! Its first owner! Where did it first jump to light speed?
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I'll tell Disney. You may be in for a welcome surprise.
 
One MMA Fan said:
Empire is better imo, Sith isn't that bad like it's reputation says but it's not great either.

Ep 5 - 9.5+
Ep 4 - 9+
Ep 6 - 8.5+
(add some context they came in the freaking 70's early 80's.. and are still watchable today just fine and they are space adventure/action for crying out loud)

Ep 8 - 8.5
Ep 7 - 8
RO - 7.5
Ep 3 - 6.5+
Ep 1 - 6+
Ep 2 - 5.5

This are kinda my rankings could concede a plus or a minus here and there but that's how I kinda rank them and the higher in score they go the harder for them to obtain that extra point it gets.. I'm a fan, they are all watchable and worth it to me.
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You gave TLJ a 8.5?!
 
nhbfan8080 said:
I don't follow the cinema scene so I'm don't know if its the anti geek culture that is to blame but all the new star wars films have a lightweight feel about them as if the director doesn't know if its going to be a serious movie or a plot holed comedy riddled with furry cute creatures, cgi Disney chase scenes for a video game tie in and some melodrama with stilted lines.

Was the reason for not having A level actors because the script and the previous films scared them off?
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You watch Star Trek and that's very my Abrams style for me, not taking his setting or drama that seriously with a lot of both physical and meta humour poking fun at it. Its not just the humour either but the whole setting feels that much more cartoonish and larger than life relative to the originals that had a kind of mix of gritty 70's new wave and John Ford western to them.

In terms of A level actors they have some in Oscar Isaac, Del Toro etc but the script really doesn't give them much to work with. For the leads I think Abrams took a rather simplistic view that because the originals cast unknowns and had success coping them would to surely lead to success. For one thing this ignores that Lucas caught Harrison Ford on the rise and for another I think that larger than life style actually needs actors with presense. You look at the Marvel films for example and they have big established stars making up most of the cast, or indeed something like Flash Gordon back in the day that has the likes of Dalton, Blessed, Von Sydow and Topol in it.

Really to me its a classic case of art being the sum of its influences with attempts to directly copy it without understanding that doomed to failure.
 
Bob Gray said:
This comparison is stupid and dumb and also stupid. And dumb.

It's not saying Jedi do this or that, we're saying Luke wouldn't do it. Comparing him to Yoda is stupid. He's not Yoda. He's Luke. Same with Kenobi. You might as well say now that he's a Jedi he should talk like Yoda. That's not how characterization works.

That's beside the point that the situations were completely different. Yoda and Ben had been through the clone wars and seen the entire legion of Jedi decimated and now they were being actively hunted. They both attempted to thwart Palpatine and failed and Kenobi thought Anakin was hamburger.They had exhausted their options and now were depending on Luke.

That's beside the point that Luke is acting in ways completely contradicting his established behavior. He's willing to disarm himself and face both Vader and Palpatine simply because he believed Vader, the walking murder factory, could be redeemed. Then when he sees the dark influence on his nephew, the son of his twin sister and best friend that he helped raise, his first instinct is to murder him while he sleeps. Ridiculous.

Even after, he decides the best thing to do is to let his nephew be further corrupted by what he knows to be the most insidious influence in the galaxy. and leaves his sister and friends to face it alone. But not before leaving a map for everyone to find him because he wants to be left alone (lol).Because that the best thing to do is let the light die while the dark gets stronger and stronger...I guess? "Just go ahead and corrupt my nephew, kill my best friend, destroy what's left of the rebellion and nearly kill my sister. Because I am very butt hurt."

The only counter argument I've seen is basically "That's the point. Because it's later now and he's different. Because that's what happened in the movie."
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Amazing.

Every word you just said was completely wrong.
 
Oh were still arguing about this?!


Hint of advise, movies are just entertainment. If you dislike a movie and it upsets you so much you have to go argue about how much you hated it..

Youre doing it wrong
 
CrimsonFan said:
Oh were still arguing about this?!

Hint of advise, movies are just entertainment. If you dislike a movie and it upsets you so much you have to go argue about how much you hated it..

Youre doing it wrong
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Well, at least from my perspective, if any of that is directed at me, this almost comes down to a question of ethics. Obviously filmmakers aren't doctors or lawyers or directors of publicly traded companies, where they are bound by specific ethical criteria that govern and direct most of their professional decisions.

But if a filmmaker entering an existing franchise has no responsibility to respect either the pre-established audience, or the creations that built the franchise he (or she) is entering, then...are there no responsibilities or obligations at all?

You are free to say, "No, of course there are not."

I'm not sure I agree. I've said it before, Johnson came in and sacrificed a lot of what the audience brought into this film and a lot of what was brilliantly created by his predecessors, mostly in the name of demonstrating himself to be an unpredictable maverick.

I think a writer / director, especially in his position in making Star Wars Episode 8, does have a responsibility to both the audience and his predecessors. Certainly not to be predictable, which is what people that misunderstand me will think I am saying. But, like the director of a publicly traded company which is actually owned in miniscule portions by millions of shareholders, to use what is owned by that public to the benefit of that public, not to benefit himself.

He showed he was unpredictable and clever. But he kind of did it by transforming a Stradivarius into firewood, then handing that firewood to the audience and saying, "you're welcome for the firewood. My true gift is your surprise when I smashed your violin, because you weren't expecting it."

Is it just a movie? Yes.

But movies can create things of enduring value. If there's no responsibility for other filmmakers themselves to recognize that value, then...it really is just meaningless entertainment and bullshit.
 
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Bob Gray said:
This comparison is stupid and dumb and also stupid. And dumb.

It's not saying Jedi do this or that, we're saying Luke wouldn't do it. Comparing him to Yoda is stupid. He's not Yoda. He's Luke. Same with Kenobi. You might as well say now that he's a Jedi he should talk like Yoda. That's not how characterization works.

That's beside the point that the situations were completely different. Yoda and Ben had been through the clone wars and seen the entire legion of Jedi decimated and now they were being actively hunted. They both attempted to thwart Palpatine and failed and Kenobi thought Anakin was hamburger.They had exhausted their options and now were depending on Luke.

That's beside the point that Luke is acting in ways completely contradicting his established behavior. He's willing to disarm himself and face both Vader and Palpatine simply because he believed Vader, the walking murder factory, could be redeemed. Then when he sees the dark influence on his nephew, the son of his twin sister and best friend that he helped raise, his first instinct is to murder him while he sleeps. Ridiculous.

Even after, he decides the best thing to do is to let his nephew be further corrupted by what he knows to be the most insidious influence in the galaxy. and leaves his sister and friends to face it alone. But not before leaving a map for everyone to find him because he wants to be left alone (lol).Because that the best thing to do is let the light die while the dark gets stronger and stronger...I guess? "Just go ahead and corrupt my nephew, kill my best friend, destroy what's left of the rebellion and nearly kill my sister. Because I am very butt hurt."

The only counter argument I've seen is basically "That's the point. Because it's later now and he's different. Because that's what happened in the movie."
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Yeah I'd agree with a lot of that Bob, I find it ironic defenders of this film are now doing exactly the kind of thing they always mocked people for doing with the prequels, looking to belittle the originals in highly questionable fashion to try and explain away faults. Honestly does kind of hint to be who's more of a fan of Starwars and who's more of a fan of riding hype of new releases.

For one thing of course the originals should not be judged by the prequels but rather the way in which they present Obi Wan and Yoda. Even there though I think its very clear that Obi Wan isn't just "hiding away" but is actually watching over Luke and indeed comes to the aid of the rebels as soon as he's asked to when the conflict with the Empire becomes "hot" and the Deathstar is revealed.

As you say the entire climax to Luke's story in Return of the Jedi involved him disagreeing with Obi Wan and looking to turn Vader back rather than kill him despite all that he'd done and could still do and succeeding. If anyone would have the perspective on the Ben/Kylo situation then it would surely be Luke?

At the very least if they took Luke in this direction they should have done a hell of a lot more to actually sell the situation. Make showing the Jedi training in flashback a sizeble part of the film(maybe shown from both Luke and Kylo's perspectives) with Ben getting some motivation to turn and Luke putting more effort into turning him back and failing in a more nuanced way than just desiding to kill him for the greater good.

That would surely have been better than the bland go nowhere resistance plot that took up so much screentime?
 
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@BisexualMMA

No it wasent directed at you. Just people in general.

Were all huge star wars fans here. Or we wouldnt be arguing about it.

We all have different opinions. I thought Rouge One was a steaming pile of shit. Unwatchable.

Did it ruin star wars? No, a year later i watched the last jedi and loved it.

If the Phantom Menace didnt ruin star wars.. id say were good. Now we get a star wars movie every year. There will be plenty. Hopefully you like the next one more. If it really angers you this much you maybe should just stay away.
 
CrimsonFan said:
@BisexualMMA

No it wasent directed at you. Just people in general.

Were all huge star wars fans here. Or we wouldnt be arguing about it.

We all have different opinions. I thought Rouge One was a steaming pile of shit. Unwatchable.

Did it ruin star wars? No, a year later i watched the last jedi and loved it.

If the Phantom Menace didnt ruin star wars.. id say were good. Now we get a star wars movie every year. There will be plenty. Hopefully you like the next one more. If it really angers you this much you maybe should just stay away.
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I'm not that angry about it, though it probably appears otherwise. I just think I see it in a way that most people don't and am presenting a different angle of criticism that I think might otherwise be overlooked. As I've said earlier, the approach to the material in this film hopefully won't start a trend that enters other franchises.

I enjoyed the first three Star Wars films a great deal, but despite likely appearance to the contrary in this thread, I'm not especially passionate about Star Wars itself. I just found three old movies in the series to be very good.

I have issues with some of how this movie was made in principle. That has had me compared to a flat earther in this thread, so I'm already prepared for worse than having my arguments be simply dismissed.
 
YellowBanenoo said:
https://heroichollywood.com/rian-johnson-star-wars-trilogy-shooting/
{<jordan}

Great news lads, Rian " Edgy " Johnson is scheduled to direct new starwars trilogy.

At least, It gives me a clear idea that I should not expect anything good from the new series.
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Honestly though I do tend to think a BIG issue with TLJ was what was handed down to him by Abrams and I wouldn't actually be supprised as well if the film was also held back by Disney not being willing to have an Empire style ending or allowing Luke to really shift force use away from Jedi/Sith.

There are parts of this film that show a good deal of talent even if I don't think you can say he's blameless for the faults despite the above, perhaps an entirely new setting would be less constraining?

In terms of existing directors though Disney should IMHO be going cap in hand to Gareth Edwards and Tony Gilroy to do more anthology films.
 
BisexualMMA said:
But movies can create things of enduring value. If there's no responsibility to recognize that value, then...it really is just meaningless entertainment and bullshit.
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I don't understand how anyone can be this analytical and not like or at least appreciate what THE LAST JEDI accomplished.

This last statement is particularly sharp.

You yourself are your own proof.
 
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