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Abrams stated that the First Order was based on ODESSA, the Nazi war criminals who escaped to South America after WWII. And Hux's big speech was a homage to the Nazi propoganda film, Triumph of the Will.
I still think episode 3 is the best star wars movie.
The opening scene is insane. The conversations between Palpatine and Anakin were really good. The Anakin v Kenobi fight was intense. Becoming Darth Vader scene. Dooku v Anakin fight scene. It's my favourite and the one I have rewatched most.
Abrams stated that the First Order was based on ODESSA, the Nazi war criminals who escaped to South America after WWII. And Hux's big speech was a homage to the Nazi propoganda film, Triumph of the Will.
I know. But the Nazi's have been done to death. the OT was based on space Nazi's. Darth Vader looks like a gestapo officer, the uniforms of Tarkin etc. Star Wars OT was WW2 in space.
I was hoping the new trilogy would do something different. A USA/Iraq and Afganistan type storyline, the difficulties of a rmaintaining a republic like I suggested earlier. Something fresh.
That's why I liked Rogue One. Some of the scenes of Rogue One reminded me of Israel/Palestine conflict. Guerilla warfare in the streets etc.
I know. But the Nazi's have been done to death. the OT was based on space Nazi's. Darth Vader looks like a gestapo officer, the uniforms of Tarkin etc. Star Wars OT was WW2 in space.
I was hoping the new trilogy would do something different. A USA/Iraq and Afganistan type storyline, the difficulties of a rmaintaining a republic like I suggested earlier. Something fresh.
That's why I liked Rogue One. Some of the scenes of Rogue One reminded me of Israel/Palestine conflict. Guerilla warfare in the streets etc.
One of the reasons I'm looking forward to IW. The Russo brothers compared it to a Heist Movie, and helped Brolin get into charactwer as Thanos by referencing The Godfather. Makes a nice change from the Big Bad(s)being some kind of Nazi.
Abrams stated that the First Order was based on ODESSA, the Nazi war criminals who escaped to South America after WWII. And Hux's big speech was a homage to the Nazi propoganda film, Triumph of the Will.
JJ also said that before the movie he was very adament that this cast be diverse!
But I guess that mission statement didn't include the bad guys, right?
Because a diverse cast of bad guys can't be threatening? Or something like that.
Like I love how these new movies are being celebrated for doing their own thing and not following all the same old tired schtick of the original trilogy...We got a female lead, a diverse set of heros very specifically no white males. BUT...the bad guys need to stay white!
I still think episode 3 is the best star wars movie.
The opening scene is insane. The conversations between Palpatine and Anakin were really good. The Anakin v Kenobi fight was intense. Becoming Darth Vader scene. Dooku v Anakin fight scene. It's my favourite and the one I have rewatched most.
I still put it below the OT but ahead of everything else on my list.
RoTS has its moments and I thought Ian Mcdiarmid and Ewan did a great job. Hayden and Portman got better but still had a shitty script to work with. Hayden,however, was able to pull off facial acting very well.
If anyone watched the TCW series it fills in a lot character development and makes order 66 more impactful.
Alright, I've had an evening to digest and have thought long and hard about how I feel about this movie.
Plot
The story for me was a HUGE misfire. "the rebels have to outrun the empire but are low on fuel" everything based around this plot was maybe...15 minutes of good content....instead it was dragged out to 2.5 hours...it was a fucking chore to sit through. Rey-Luke-Kylo history discovery/training/force talk was the most interesting thing about this entire film, and could have carried the film if thats all there was to it...but nah...space casino's and mutinies!
Opening
I read a lot of people complaining about "bombers" and gravity in SW...but like...they had bombers in the asteroid belt in ESB so who cares? my main takeaway and gripe with the opening was....the Empire is just soooo fucking useless.
sOOOOOO much of the dialogue from the Empire commanders in the opening are just like TOO hamfisted over the top with the "WHAT IS ONE SMALL FIGHTER GOING TO DO!"
then since its Poe Dameron, he singlehandedly destroys every turret and evades a legion of Tie Fighters on his own....
Then all of the rebel bombing fleet gets destroyed in an attempt to blow up the dreadnaught. fine. dragged out. yes. but a decent enough concept for an opening, that with a bit more fine tuning could be tolerable.
Characters
This movie was hard-carried by Rey-Kylo and Luke... which is why its a fucking tragedy that most of the movie wasted time with Finn, bad actress, laura dern, and Poe Dameron and his mutiny
I laugh at all the people saying "Kylo Ren" is a whiny teenager.... like bitch Luke Skywalker for the first like 45 minutes of Star Wars did nothing but be a whiny teenager until he came up with the Chewbacca prisoner plan.
Kylo is a complex character with a lot of internal problems which this movie kind of explored, but then ended it with a pretty lame direction for him.
but yah, quit fucking whining about Kylo Rens character...its different but its good so shattt up already
I also dont get why people say Mark Hamill's a bad actor, he was fucking fine in this.
Pacing
the plot pacing had some huggeeeeee fucking problems, between jumping around from an interesting 'A' Plot of Rey with Luke, and encountering Kylo,, to the very needless Finn/Rose Casino planet visit, to the INCREDIBLY needless Poe Dameron mutiny plot (which I'll get into later regarding its meaninglessness)
The film is alternating between moody-emotion with Luke/Rey/Kylo, what is supposed to be high paced action-adventure with Finn/Rose, and then like moody political drama with Poe and the Alliance management team... its just OFF when you're getting really into the character introspective of Luke/Rey/Kylo, then you go to this prequel-esque nonsense about a casino planet that has horse-racing and force-sensitive children and what have you.
the pacing, and different styles of the plots taking place is also why I found that a lot of the humor fell flat...the joke style just felt out of place for most of the movie....ESPECIALLY the "your holding for Genral Hux" garbage...that was just soooo fucking bad
EDIT: forgot to continue my thought
Rey-Luke-Kylo
Easily the films strongest storyline, felt cohesive, and had a really good narrative with possible arcs for each character! Only problem was the arc for Kylo leaves the series essentially heading towards another Return of the Jedi type, "blow up another superweapon" movie. The Arc for Rey is still completely unfulfilled, and at the end of the movie, she's essentially the same character as she was in the first movie....only she thinks Kylo can be a good guy? And Luke well....he has an arc, although the way it ends, for me anyway, is fucking hilariously stupid and contrary to his character.
Finn-Rose
So to help the rebellion escape, they embark on a secret mission to go to a casino planet to retrieve a deus ex machina that Maz knows. With the intention of destroying the Dreadnaughts hyperspace tracker. which is a lot of logic jumps for our heroes that makes them look, really fucking stupid
1. How do they know the tracker is located on JUST the Dreadnaught?
2. How are they sure that when they take the escape pod out of the ship, they dont just get blown away by the trailing Empire?
3. When they get to Casino planet, how did they plan to enlist the codebreaker if they had nothing to barter with? were they just hoping that mentioning Maz Kanatas name that they'd be gucci?
4. Rose apparently is so well versed in the planet and knows how everyone on their is a piece of shit supporting both sides of the war......so why even bother with the plan if the person you are trying to hire, is living/located on a planet that you believe everyone to be a piece of shit traitor? something she had been stunning deserters for literally 15 minutes earlier in the film?
The entire plan is just a massive waste of time....they are predictably double-crossed and are taken to the hangar bay where then Captain Phlasma does the classic, Bond villain, long and drawn out explanation of their betrayal, instead of you know...just fucking murdering them for being rebels. I loved when she was like about to kill them and it cuts to a different part of the story, and theres like 10 minutes before we cut back to them....so its like....was she counting down from 100, and asked them for final words?
whole plotline was a chore, and the fact that it ends up being a massive waste of time and gets everyone killed is hilarious.
Poe Dameron and Laura Dern
Everything about this mutiny subplot is just cringe inducing because it makes the rebellion look like a bunch of complete retards. Why is Laura Dern acting suspicious? Instead of having a secret plan to evacuate everyone to not-Hoth,
why not just tell everyone, oh yah, we're going to use our defenseless ships cloaking devices to get everyone to not-Hoth and this ship will just be bait. ....
instead...her being secretive and NOT telling the fucking 70 remaining resistance fighters about her plan ends up with about 95% MORE casualties, than if she had just told everyone her fucking plan....
Leia gives Poe SHIT, and stuns his ass for inciting a mutiny, and then cites Laura Derns plan as justification for "following orders"
like IS EVERYONE IN THE REBEL ALLIANCE RETARDED? LAURA DERN BEING SECRETIVE ABOUT THEIR ESCAPE PLANS LITERALLY GETS THE ENTIRE REBLLION DECIMATED.....
the rest of the rebellion fits into the fucking Millenium Falcon ffs....because Laura Derns character is retarded!
Also if you knew you could turn a ship around and put it into hyperdrive towards the empire fleet to decimate it (cool visuals by the way)
why wouldn't you have TOLD the entire rebel alliance that the goal was to fly close enough to Crait so that they could cloak their defenseless ships onto the old base, then turn the ship around and annhilate the Empires fleet by going hyperdrive straight through it....
probably would've saved the lives of a couple hundred but hey....I'm no military strategist.
also remember when Han told Chewy to chart a course for Alderaan? I'm not pilot, but that sounds like charting a course, puts your ship on a predetermined path to a location....why do pilots need to "stay behind" and pilot a dying ship without gas? just chart a course until it runs out of gas, and evacuate with everyone else?
Not-Hoth
everything on the salt planet felt like an elongated waste just to see AT-AT's again... I dont understand what the fuck the pilots plan was...it wasn't clear at all...they were just gonna fly their shitty, outdated b-wings, towards the "battering ram" and throw salt at it?
or was the goal to literally have one survivor just suicide crash into it and blow it up? the fact that they pull off because they're getting picked off makes no sense to me if this was intended to be a suicide run? otherwise the entire sequence was just for neat trailer visuals.
Did the rebels KNOW Rey was on the Dreadnaught? and was going to escape on a ship, reunite with Chewy, board the Millenium Falcon, and then draw tie fighters away from the battle so they could continue their suicide run?
The last half of the movie and the problem with an overabundance of logical leaps
Pretty much the entire finale/conclusion of the movie had so much filler, and resolutions that didn't benefit the audience, instead it cause further confusion, and require the audience to fill in so many logic gaps on their own, that it makes both the Empire AND the Rebel Alliance look like complete retards.
I've already listed how everything Laura Dern did was borderline retarded, and how the rebels red-salt fight plan was truly retarded.
everything about the conclusion was so confusing and required so many leaps in logic that it was no longer comprehensible or coherent as a narrative because while you're trying to be engaged by the nice visuals, your brain is trying to process how we went from Point A to Point B
1. Rey escaping Kylo
2. stealing Snokes private shuttle
3. reuniting with Chewy on the falcon and then saving the day
This is a MASSIVE sequence of events that is kind of hilarious NOT to be included in an action-adventure film...at least ROTJ showed Luke's escape from the super-star-destroyer
The dreadnaught or whatever its called got absolutely decimated but Rey has no scratch on her except the one from her knife fight, and she escapes in a ship no problem.
Same thing with Finn, Rose and BB-8 ....
1. the room they were in looks like a nuclear missile went off, but they survive somehow
2. Phasma was 5 feet from Finn/Rose, and likely should've been killed - her re-entrance INTO the hangar requires logic to say, that she LEFT the hangar in the 5 minutes after saying, "execute them on my mark" ...which makes no fucking sense for a person who was eager as fuck to kill the traitor.
3. everything about the Finn/Rose sequence is out of a Bond movie where they dont just blow them away when they have them dead to rights...in fact, same can be said for a LOT of people in this movie...like Poe in the opening...just making everyone look stupider and stupiderer
Minor Inconsistency
Finn is now a capable pilot, despite needing one to escape last movie, and his story literally continuing right after TFA indicates he is NOT a pilot.... so how is he piloting an outdated rebel vehicle
Lukes Arc
So we get a very sentimental scene with Luke in the end of the movie, where he gazes upon the setting twin suns, the music cue from the original Star Wars and he's at peace with himself/the force/family? and he vaporizes into thin air.
Now I can tell that what the director is trying to do is put a stamp of closure as Luke is reminded of his home planet of Tattooine, and the swirling musical cue blasts to make us think that Luke is happy.... but theres a big problem...
a huge fucking problem with this entire "nostalgia" closure cue.
Luke didn't like Tattooine...he fucking hated it. He hated it so much he vowed to never return to this planet again when he left with Obi-Wan. When he stares at the setting suns in A New Hope, he isn't fucking happy about where he is....he's gazing out hopeful to get off, but he's sad because in all likelihood he does not see a way out. It's a moment of sadness, where our main character internally wishes for a place of belonging
Luke wasn't looking for a place to belong in the last jedi...he was fucking depressed that he had robbed Han and Leia of their son, destroyed the Jedi order due to his own perceived hubris....and died to give the rebels one more chance at killing his nephew and the empire lol. So him staring at the setting suns shouldn't be like a reminder of peace or a place of belonging for him NOW of all time....
Imagine your dying, and you feel a bit hopeful that Rey is going to keep the jedi alive, and then you see something that reminds you of your horrible upbringing, miserable teenage years, and when your aunt and uncle got burned alive by the empire that EVEN AFTER YOU DIE THIS MOMENT, WILL STILL EXIST AND CONTINUE TO EXIST UNTIL SOMEONE ACTUALLY ACCOMPLISHES SOMETHING....
my first instinct at this scene, was wow, this is a great bit of closure for his character...but hte more I thought about it, it just doesn't make any sense... maybe the music cue was a perfect placement....but the setting twin suns felt very out of place
The Future
So this movie begins and ends, and is sprinkled thorughout with the message of "hope for the future"
I can't tell if thats Rian Johnson saying, guys WE'RE GOING TO DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT, or if its just the only message they can have in this series now because realistically, Star Wars is creatively bankrupt.
I hope to hell the next movie isn't just, Kylo Ren and his new-new Empire seek to destroy the rebel alliance once and for all with their new superweapon... but honestly with the way this film ended, its hard to imagine what direction they take this series in...
TLJ felt like it should have been a Genndy Tarkovsky anime short series that explains how every character got to the REAL Episode 8. Because this movie truly felt like filler, where no character really evolves, changes, or ends up somewhere new, the Empire is still a juggernaut that cant be stopped, and the Rebel alliance is at its lowest point yet....so I dunno...
I was not hopeful for this one at all...I had incredibly low expectations...and it was still shocked by how dumb it was at times
there is stuff that I really like in this...like REALLY enjoy...better than any of the stuff in the prequels or in Rogue One,
Saw this Christmas Eve, and throughout the whole thing I kept leaning to my wife to whisper, “This is just Empire Strikes Back.”
-Ray goes to an isolated area to learn from a reluctant old jedi master much like Luke did with Yoda.
-Our heroes go to a breathtaking city comprised of beautiful architecture, the casino, much like when the heroes from ESB went to Cloud City.
-Our heroes meet a man at this wondrous city who at first appears as an ally, but we find out he sells them out to the Empire, much like what Lando did to Han and company.
-Our lead protagonist, Ray, is propositioned by a powerful sith, Kylo, to join him in taking control over the galaxies, much like Vader does with Luke.
-We get a reveal of Ray’s parents being nobodies, which isn’t on the same grand scale of Vader being revealed as Luke’s father, but still we learn of our main protagonist’s parents.
-There’s a battle involving AT-ATs on a snowy planet where our heroes are hiding in a mountain behind a giant metal wall.
-The movie ends on kind of a downer with the rebels taking a loss and on the run.
I’m sure there’s other similarities that I’m forgetting, but I basically walked away from Last Jedi thinking it was a too long, not as memorable or fun to watch version of Empire Strikes Back. The scene where Kylo and Ray team up to wreck those red guards was really the only highlight for me.
<Oku02>
You just don't understand, do you ? She portraits how STRONG and AMAZING a self empowered woman can be. Modern women don't need any help from a foul male.
Saw this last week and while I was entertained watching it, I was overall disappointed and the more days that passed the more disappointed I became. It felt like the movie was giving me the middle finger the entire time by setting up potentially interesting plot lines and then completely destroying them so they can't even be further explored in the next movie.
All of the 'plot twists' were directed at audience expectations instead of following a coherent story line and it bugged me quite a bit. In fact, from the 'twists' to the 'humor', the movie was a just a little too self aware that an audience was watching it for my tastes.
They did Luke wrong and then destroyed any chance to fix it in the next movie, they did Snoke wrong and then destroyed any chance to fix it, and they did Rey's backstory wrong and destroyed any chance to fix it.
The crazy part is it felt like the movie kept saying 'ha ha, had you fooled gotcha!', when the only reason I even cared about Snoke and Rey's backstory was because the movie kept telling me it was important. If you're just going to throw it away then why are you even taking me through this whole song and dance? The only reason the plot twists surprised me is because they kept doing something stupid every time they set it up like they were going to do something smart.
By the end I thought to myself, "Luke is going to show up and they're going to tease that he's going to do the Obi Wan If You Strike Me Down thing and then say gotcha and do something totally dumb..", and that's exactly what happened.
Also, if Luke was buying time for the rebels to escape at the end, why didn't he tell them that so they weren't just standing around?? Especially considering the effort he was using was LITERALLY killing him. Hell for that matter, since he didn't enter physically in the first place there wasn't even a way out for them to escape, so what the hell was he doing? Unless he knew Rey was there waiting to help them, but then once again why wouldn't he tell them 'go out back Rey's waiting to help you escape?'
I kind of hated this movie. It set up a bunch of cool stuff, completely destroyed it and then laughed in my face for being stupid enough to care about the mysteries that they presented.
I still think episode 3 is the best star wars movie.
The opening scene is insane. The conversations between Palpatine and Anakin were really good. The Anakin v Kenobi fight was intense. Becoming Darth Vader scene. Dooku v Anakin fight scene. It's my favourite and the one I have rewatched most.
Saw this last week and while I was entertained watching it, I was overall disappointed and the more days that passed the more disappointed I became. It felt like the movie was giving me the middle finger the entire time by setting up potentially interesting plot lines and then completely destroying them so they can't even be further explored in the next movie.
All of the 'plot twists' were directed at audience expectations instead of following a coherent story line and it bugged me quite a bit. In fact, from the 'twists' to the 'humor', the movie was a just a little too self aware that an audience was watching it for my tastes.
They did Luke wrong and then destroyed any chance to fix it in the next movie, they did Snoke wrong and then destroyed any chance to fix it, and they did Rey's backstory wrong and destroyed any chance to fix it.
The crazy part is it felt like the movie kept saying 'ha ha, had you fooled gotcha!', when the only reason I even cared about Snoke and Rey's backstory was because the movie kept telling me it was important. If you're just going to throw it away then why are you even taking me through this whole song and dance? The only reason the plot twists surprised me is because they kept doing something stupid every time they set it up like they were going to do something smart.
By the end I thought to myself, "Luke is going to show up and they're going to tease that he's going to do the Obi Wan If You Strike Me Down thing and then say gotcha and do something totally dumb..", and that's exactly what happened.
Also, if Luke was buying time for the rebels to escape at the end, why didn't he tell them that so they weren't just standing around?? Especially considering the effort he was using was LITERALLY killing him. Hell for that matter, since he didn't enter physically in the first place there wasn't even a way out for them to escape, so what the hell was he doing? Unless he knew Rey was there waiting to help them, but then once again why wouldn't he tell them 'go out back Rey's waiting to help you escape?'
I kind of hated this movie. It set up a bunch of cool stuff, completely destroyed it and then laughed in my face for being stupid enough to care about the mysteries that they presented.
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