STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI

[Guestx]

Ok, so 2nd and 3rd worst?

Revenge of the Sith
The Last Jedi
The Empire Strikes Back / Return of the Jedi (tie)
Rogue One
Attack of the Clones
The Phantom Menace / A New Hope (tie)
The Force Awakens

Attack of the Clones could rise though. I need to watch it another time or two.

 

[Magooglie]

I think Anakin's turn is just as much about his disappointment with the Jedi Order as it is with his desire to save Padme, and that is what makes ROTS a brilliant film.

He had a personality conflict with Mace Windu and regretted that these were the people that saved him from a life of slavery. That hardly explains why he's killing kids. Anakin's story is all sizzle no steak. There are a lot of things I would change about ROTS. At this point i'll say Kylo > Anakin story-wise. While Kylo also has emotional mood swings and outbursts he at least has some philosophical reasoning of why he's trying to kill all the people closest to him.

 

[TheRuthlessOne]

I like Snoke much more than Palpatine.

 

[Guestx]

He had a personality conflict with Mace Windu and regretted that these were the people that saved him from a life of slavery. That hardly explains why he's killing kids. Anakin's story is all sizzle no steak. There are a lot of things I would change about ROTS. At this point i'll say Kylo > Anakin story-wise. While Kylo also has emotional mood swings and outbursts he at least has some philosophical reasoning of why he's trying to kill all the people closest to him.

Mace Windu betrayed the Jedi Code and Anakin recognized it. It disillusioned him.

Remmeber that later in the movie he says, "From my perspective, the Jedi are evil." I don't think that was him bullshitting. He really believed it.

Even Yoda was concerned with the direction the Jedi were facing. "Down a dark path, this may lead us."

Mace Windu symbolized the corruption of the Jedi Order and Anakin was there to witness his downfall.

 

[VivaRevolution]

Revenge of the Sith
The Last Jedi
The Empire Strikes Back / Return of the Jedi (tie)
Rogue One
Attack of the Clones
The Phantom Menace / A New Hope (tie)
The Force Awakens

Attack of the Clones could rise though. I need to watch it another time or two.

The empire strikes back/return of the Jedi
Rouge one
A new hope(based mostly on being way ahead of its time)
Revenge of the Sith
Force Awakens
TLJ
Attack of the clones
Phantom menace

 

[Lavitz]

Anakin’s story is fleshed out greatly in the clone wars series.

 

[Magooglie]

Lightsaber Palpatine is the stupidest shit ever. "You had some bad dreams Anakin? Well let me tell you about Darth Plagueis the immortal so you can go and help me murder all the jedi." LOL, wut?

Snoke's scene in Last Jedi is so much better than Palpatine's scene in Return.

 

[Guestx]

The empire strikes back/return of the Jedi
Rouge one
A new hope(based mostly on being way ahead of its time)
Revenge of the Sith
Force Awakens
TLJ
Attack of the clones
Phantom menace

The problem with A New Hope is that everyone wants to rank it highly out of nostalgia but it's near the bottom in terms of actual entertainment value.

Don't get me wrong, I understand what an achivement it is and applaud it. But that doesn't change the fact that it's a dull movie until the last 40 minutes.

 

[Magooglie]

Mace Windu betrayed the Jedi Code and Anakin recognized it. It disillusioned him.

Remmeber that later in the movie he says, "From my perspective, the Jedi are evil." I don't think that was him bullshitting. He really believed it.

Even Yoda was concerned with the direction the Jedi were facing. "Down a dark path, this may lead us."

Mace Windu symbolized he corruption of the Jedi Order and Anakin was there to witness his downfall.

So Anakin simultaneously has a better moral compass than the Jedi but is also killing kids which make his moral compass even less than that of Mace Windu's. He also beheaded Count Dooku when he was incapacitated. And he really didn't care about the Jedi Code, he just wanted to save Palpatine because Palpatine said he could save Padma. When he chops off Mace's hand in anger he says "I need him!" not "This isn't right!"

 

[TrueBias]

The problem with A New Hope is that everyone wants to rank it highly out of nostalgia but it's near the bottom in terms of actual entertainment value.

Don't get me wrong, I understand what an achivement it is and applaud it. But that doesn't change the fact that it's a dull movie until the last 40 minutes.

Nostalgia meaning memorable scenes? Well theres a shit load going on and every character has a purpose.

Amazing musical score.

Major religious symbolism, if youre keen to it.

An against all odds climax.

It hits all the right notes where TLJ fails. What's hilarious is TLJ is based on this one and it's done 40 years ago, yet they didnt get it right.

 

[VivaRevolution]

The problem with A New Hope is that everyone wants to rank it highly out of nostalgia but it's near the bottom in terms of actual entertainment value.

Don't get me wrong, I understand what an achivement it is and applaud it. But that doesn't change the fact that it's a dull movie until the last 40 minutes.

I don't disagree, I just give it points for innovation.

Bill Walsh's West coast offense doesn't hold a candle to Andy Rieds', but one is true innovation, while the other is an improvement of someone else's idea.

 

[TheRuthlessOne]

New Hope kicks ass

Fuck all y'all

 

[Magooglie]

A New Hope is a fun movie.

 

[Guestx]

So Anakin simultaneously has a better moral compass than the Jedi but is also killing kids which make his moral compass even less than that of Mace Windu's. He also beheaded Count Dooku when he was incapacitated. And he really didn't care about the Jedi Code, he just wanted to save Palpatine because Palpatine said he could save Padma. When he chops off Mace's hand in anger he says "I need him!" not "This isn't right!"

Well I think you're touching on the moral complexity of Anakin. He's a LAYERED character rather than a simple one.

Also, I'm glad you touch on him killing Count Dooku. Let's get into that. . .

When he has Count Dooku on his knees, does he kill him of his own volition? No. It's Palpatine who order's Dooku's execution. And does Anakin immediately comply? Again, no. He says that Dooku should stand trial.

What are Palpatine's words? "He is too dangerous to allow to live."

Anakin then kills Dooku but is clearly fucked up about it.

Let's flash forward to Mace Windu and Palpatine. . .

When Windu has Palpatine cornered, what are his words? He echoes Palpatine's own words: "He is too dangerous to allow to live."

Anakin sees Mace Windu betray the Jedi code. He then realizes the corruption of the Jedi order.

And don't forget that from Anakin's perspective, the Jedi have been opposing him from Day 1. They didn't want to train him . . . they refused to make him a master . . . they forced him to hide his love for Padme.

This is enough for Anakin to cross over to the Dark Side. The Jedi are now his enemy. And this is why the younglings must die, so that they cannot carry forward the teachings of the Jedi.

 

[Guestx]

Nostalgia meaning memorable scenes? Well theres a shit load going on and every character has a purpose.

Amazing musical score.

Major religious symbolism, if youre keen to it.

An against all odds climax.

It hits all the right notes where TLJ fails. What's hilarious is TLJ is based on this one and it's done 40 years ago, yet they didnt get it right.

Wake me up when Obi-Wan is fighting Vader.

 

[TrueBias]

Wake me up when Obi-Wan is fighting Vader.

I'm not sure how that hit with audiences at the time, but as a kid, my older brother pointed out their sabers not being lit up digitally in 2 scenes. When theyre not lit up, you can see how thin these "swords" are, likely making them fragile. Cant do much choreography and its been remedied.

It was the first movie so some parts are. Minor bads with a lots of goods.

 

[TrueBias]

Well I think you're touching on the moral complexity of Anakin. He's a LAYERED character rather than a simple one.

Also, I'm glad you touch on him killing Count Dooku. Let's get into that. . .

When he has Count Dooku on his knees, does he kill him of his own volition? No. It's Palpatine who order's Dooku's execution. And does Anakin immediately comply? Again, no. He says that Dooku should stand trial.

What are Palpatine's words? "He is too dangerous to allow to live."

Anakin then kills Dooku but is clearly fucked up about it.

Let's flash forward to Mace Windu and Palpatine. . .

When Windu has Palpatine cornered, what are his words? He echoes Palpatine's own words: "He is too dangerous to allow to live."

Anakin sees Mace Windu betray the Jedi code. He then realizes the corruption of the Jedi order.

And don't forget that from Anakin's perspective, the Jedi have been opposing him from Day 1. They didn't want to train him . . . they refused to make him a master . . . they forced him to hide his love for Padme.

This is enough for Anakin to cross over to the Dark Side. The Jedi are now his enemy. And this is why the younglings must die, so that they cannot carry forward the teachings of the Jedi.

you sound like a Sith

 

[Magooglie]

Well I think you're touching on the moral complexity of Anakin. He's a LAYERED character rather than a simple one.

Also, I'm glad you touch on him killing Count Dooku. Let's get into that. . .

When he has Count Dooku on his knees, does he kill him of his own volition? No. It's Palpatine who order's Dooku's execution. And does Anakin immediately comply? Again, no. He says that Dooku should stand trial.

What are Palpatine's words? "He is too dangerous to allow to live."

Anakin then kills Dooku but is clearly fucked up about it.

Let's flash forward to Make Windu and Palpatine. . .

When Windu has Palpatine cornered, what are his words? He echoes Palpatine's own words: "He is too dangerous to allow to live."

Anakin sees Mace Windu betray the Jedi code. He then realizes the corruption of the Jedi order.

And don't forget that from Anakin's perspective, the Jedi have been opposing him from Day 1. They didn't want to train him . . . they refused to make him a master . . . they forced him to hide his love for Padme.

This is enough for Anakin to cross over to the Dark Side. The Jedi are now his enemy. And this is why the you goings must die, so that they cannot carry forward the teachings of the Jedi.

Should Anakin then have been mad about Palpatine not capturing Mace Windu to stand trial in the galactic senate and bring down the jedi that way if they're so corrupt and broken? Nope, he just goes along with Palpatine killing Mace and then sword slaughtering a bunch of children. He could have freed those children instead of killing them, but he's not well written.

And why didn't they want to train him? Too many attachments which he then perpetuates into adulthood. And why didn't they want to make him master? Because killing Count Dooku doesn't get you to masterhood. If he were a complex character he should have some insight into himself but he's just emotional action after emotional action. He has no real perspective. That isn't layered, that's basic. He's like Johnny from The Room. I want to save you Padma! *Chokes Padma* Oh, hi Obi Wan! Maybe they shouldn't have marketed Anakin as some awesome Jedi that turns to the dark side and destroys the order (which he really doesn't, Palpatine does that) but rather as some weirdo spaz Palpatine play thing who makes bizarre decisions. Because then everything he does makes more sense.

 

[Guestx]

I'm not sure how that hit with audiences at the time, but as a kid, my older brother pointed out their sabers not being lit up digitally in 2 scenes. When theyre not lit up, you can see how thin these "swords" are, likely making them fragile. Cant do much choreography and its been remedied.

It was the first movie so some parts are. Minor bads with a lots of goods.

My point was that it's just not an interesting film until the final act. Luke's "gee whiz" reaction to the death of his family is an early indication of the films problems. Whenever there is an opportunity to infuse the story with excitement and drama, it's squandered.

What I can say is that it ends on a high note. From about the moment they escape the trash compactor to the end of the film is not bad.

Don't get me wrong, I understand it was an enormous technical achivement and I applaud it for that. It owns a great place in history. But as someone who has no nostalgic connection to it, it seems that it's mostly people who loved it as kids who are most eager to defend it as a great film.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

Honestly to me theres still a big divide in Starwars, you have the original three films and Rogue One which are I think are all great blockbuster cinema then you have the rest that's all interesting but flawed. I can see The Last jedi ending up ontop of that group for me long term mainly because the stuff it does well is excellent and quote original even if has very significant flaws, ironically it feels much more akin to Revenge of the Sith in that respect to me but with Driver obviously a far better factor than Hayden.