STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI

[Kiyashin]

Not joking but I hope the First Order wins.

 

[Mike]

The point he's making is that since Johnson "burned" Abrams' plot devices, Abrams could return the favor by resurrecting Luke. It's the notion that TLJ doesn't honor TFA, but that's a mistaken notion.

 

[minute bull]

MIKE I'M SENSITIVE.

 

[Mike]

MIKE I'M SENSITIVE.

I read that pm a little while back btw. Was working a series of 12-14 hour days at the time so didn't have time to respond.

 

[Fuzzybabyducks]

just saw this the other day, I liked it.

 

[Eusung]

Not joking but I hope the First Order wins.

They already have... Resistance down to 14 people...and the entire Republic wiped out...they won.

Anyways, since TLJ lovers defend it by saying the rottentomatoes user score means nothing..I bring you the IMDB scores:

All SW movies ranked by IMDB users:

1. Empire (8.8)
2. A New Hope (8.6)
3. Return of the Jedi (8.3)
4. The Force Awakens (8.0)
5. Rogue One (7.8)
6. Revenge of the Sith (7.6)
7. The Last Jedi (7.2) -->Within a month or two it will fall below Solo...remember this movie was at 7.9 about 8 months ago.
8. Solo (7.1) --> sooo close to TLJ
9. The Phantom Menace (6.6)
10. Attack of the Clones (6.5)

All 8 episode movies ranked by IMDB:

1. Empire, 8.8
2. A New Hope, 8.6
3. Return of the Jedi, 8.3
4. The Force Awakanes, 8.0
5. Revenge of the Sith, 7.6
6. The Last Jedi, 7.2
7. The Phanom Menace, 6.6
8. Attack of the Clones, 6.5

So TLJ is number 6 out of 8 if you take sin offs out of the equation....with numbers 7 and 8 being two of the most mocked ane memed movies ever in sci fi history.

 

[Clear Winner]

just saw this the other day, I liked it.

Really? What did you like about it?

 

[Deleted member 110072]

Honestly thinking about it the start of last jedi with the bombers being viewed negatively just makes absolutely zero sense doesn't it? we see Leia who has a long history of being willing to send people to die to destroy dangerous super weapons(including what looks like hour/days before this) deside not to do so. Then we have Poe's decision damned but actually isn't Poe correct? I mean if he doesn't destroy the dreadnought then in the slow speed chase that follows surely it blasts the rebel fleet? Its specifically talked up as a fleet killer with the ability to destroy any ship with one shot.

Amusing the film doesn't seem to realise this given the direction the Holdo plot goes.

 

[90 50]

I am agreeing with you. What Im saying is that establishing something doesnt mean it cant be changed. If Abrams comes along and says he teleported away, the fact that "died" wouldnt matter.

Its like JR coming out of the shower on Dallas.

Wait, too old?


its like any comic book death. Yes, they may have "died" but that was until someone else came along and said they were actually teleported away onto a skrull spaceship and a fake body was buried in their coffin.




It has nothing to do with retaliation and just possibility. Myrrddin is saying that since he dies he must remain dead and Im pointing out that thats not accurate.

its almost happened before in RTJ



also

 

[TrueBias]

My co worker said to me, gun to your head, which movie would u watch, last jedi or mortal kombat annihilation. I had to think about that1....
I went with mortal kombat cuz its awful, but its b movie awful. You could drink to it and laugh. Last jedi will just put me in a bad mood

 

[minute bull]

Honestly thinking about it the start of last jedi with the bombers being viewed negatively just makes absolutely zero sense doesn't it? we see Leia who has a long history of being willing to spend people to die to destroy dangerous super weapons(including what looks like hour/days before this) deside not to do so. Then we have Poe's decision damned but actually isn't Poe correct? I mean if he doesn't destroy the dreadnought then in the slow speed chase that follows surely it blasts the rebel fleet? Its specifically talked up as a fleet killer with the ability to destroy any ship with one shot.

Amusing the film doesn't seem to realise this given the direction the Holdo plot goes.

What's amusing is how the film gets blasted for being not so very cut-and-dried.

The story's complexity -- which isn't all that complicated, really -- is that neither side is completely right or wrong, and that tough calls needed to be made and, moreover, lived-with as-is. Of course, we need to perceive Poe as being justified in his actions. He's not wrong, his mutiny wasn't either; it's not condescension nor a mistake when we discover his desperate plot failed. This is the ups and down of a story, not a commentary on male-female dynamics. I never quite saw it the same way how people criticized the film for moralizing "women should be listened to" -- to me it's a wartime situation with some hasty decisions. No one got away clean, and everyone got a moment to redeem oneself. It's too bad that shit wasn't good enough for the longtime fans who wanted something cooler but yanoooooooooo dramatic irony doesn't have the appeal it once did. Not when people wanna skip straight to the come.

(I wonder if dramatic irony will be dragged over the coals.)

In the commentary, Johnson discusses how he wanted to give Leia a moment to reflect on the countless lives lost, and I can see how that might be a larger story decision of giving her character more dimension, which I think is a value-added decision. It gave her character that aspect of leadership, and thematically fed into the plot and Poe's character development.

 

[D Train]

What's amusing is how the film gets blasted for being not so very cut-and-dried.

The story's complexity -- which isn't all that complicated, really -- is that neither side is completely right or wrong, and that tough calls needed to be made and, moreover, lived-with as-is. Of course, we need to perceive Poe as being justified in his actions. He's not wrong, his mutiny wasn't either; it's not condescension nor a mistake when we discover his desperate plot failed. This is the ups and down of a story, not a commentary on male-female dynamics. I never quite saw it the same way how people criticized the film for moralizing "women should be listened to" -- to me it's a wartime situation with some hasty decisions. No one got away clean, and everyone got a moment to redeem oneself. It's too bad that shit wasn't good enough for the longtime fans who wanted something cooler but yanoooooooooo dramatic irony doesn't have the appeal it once did. Not when people wanna skip straight to the come.

(I wonder if dramatic irony will be dragged over the coals.)

In the commentary, Johnson discusses how he wanted to give Leia a moment to reflect on the countless lives lost, and I can see how that might be a larger story decision of giving her character more dimension, which I think is a value-added decision. It gave her character that aspect of leadership, and thematically fed into the plot and Poe's character development.

I love the IDEA of hasty wartime decisions and morally ambiguous choices and the whole concept of good people making difficult and sometimes wrong calls. That’s very interesting.
If that’s what Johnson was going for, it was exceptionally poorly executed. That moral complexity didn’t come through at all. It came across as poor writing and characters doing things that didn’t make sense even in the context of the story.
I’ve said this before, but just so I’m not continually bagging on Johnson, there were elements of the film I enjoyed. I liked the action. I thought the film was beautifully shot. I liked the connection/tension between Kylo and Rey. The set pieces were great. Effects were top notch.
But wow, just so much missed the mark for me. It’s easily my least favorite SW film. At least the prequels were fun and had, like, a million light sabers.

 

[Eusung]

What's amusing is how the film gets blasted for being not so very cut-and-dried.

The story's complexity -- which isn't all that complicated, really -- is that neither side is completely right or wrong, and that tough calls needed to be made and, moreover, lived-with as-is. Of course, we need to perceive Poe as being justified in his actions. He's not wrong, his mutiny wasn't either; it's not condescension nor a mistake when we discover his desperate plot failed. This is the ups and down of a story, not a commentary on male-female dynamics. I never quite saw it the same way how people criticized the film for moralizing "women should be listened to" -- to me it's a wartime situation with some hasty decisions. No one got away clean, and everyone got a moment to redeem oneself. It's too bad that shit wasn't good enough for the longtime fans who wanted something cooler but yanoooooooooo dramatic irony doesn't have the appeal it once did. Not when people wanna skip straight to the come.

(I wonder if dramatic irony will be dragged over the coals.)

In the commentary, Johnson discusses how he wanted to give Leia a moment to reflect on the countless lives lost, and I can see how that might be a larger story decision of giving her character more dimension, which I think is a value-added decision. It gave her character that aspect of leadership, and thematically fed into the plot and Poe's character development.

Complexity? The film SHOWS us that if not for Poe, the Resistance would all have been incinerated. The film TELLS us that Poe sacrificed 18 soldiers so he could look like a hero. The cognitive dissonance is just pathetic.

And regardless of that, Poe, was high up in the Resistance, the guy to take the mantle from Leia, in fact. Him being left out in the dark was so fkn stupid LOL. "We won't tell you if we have a plan or not because you are too impulsive despite destroying Star killer Base and the Dreagnaught all withint he past 24 hours"

 

[minute bull]

credit to @HeLLMuTT

The cognitive dissonance is just pathetic.

Yes it is.

Do you have anymore of your fanfic written?

 

[Eusung]

credit to @HeLLMuTT


Yes it is.

Do you have anymore of your fanfic written?

I take it you had a very different kind of reply in mind, but decided against it. Just a hunch.

And no need go to mock someone's "fan fic" when that person clearly was just writing it t make a point that anyone could come up w/ a better idea than Rian Johns on if given five minutes.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

What's amusing is how the film gets blasted for being not so very cut-and-dried.

The story's complexity -- which isn't all that complicated, really -- is that neither side is completely right or wrong, and that tough calls needed to be made and, moreover, lived-with as-is. Of course, we need to perceive Poe as being justified in his actions. He's not wrong, his mutiny wasn't either; it's not condescension nor a mistake when we discover his desperate plot failed. This is the ups and down of a story, not a commentary on male-female dynamics. I never quite saw it the same way how people criticized the film for moralizing "women should be listened to" -- to me it's a wartime situation with some hasty decisions. No one got away clean, and everyone got a moment to redeem oneself. It's too bad that shit wasn't good enough for the longtime fans who wanted something cooler but yanoooooooooo dramatic irony doesn't have the appeal it once did. Not when people wanna skip straight to the come.

(I wonder if dramatic irony will be dragged over the coals.)

In the commentary, Johnson discusses how he wanted to give Leia a moment to reflect on the countless lives lost, and I can see how that might be a larger story decision of giving her character more dimension, which I think is a value-added decision. It gave her character that aspect of leadership, and thematically fed into the plot and Poe's character development.

I think the film does very clearly look to try and cast Poe as "wrong" in both situations but the way it does so to me makes for a reprehensible message for a starwars film.

I mean yeah we've had cloak and dagger style politics in Rogue One but the big difference there was that the situation with Saw, Draven, etc was not shown as a good heroic thing but rather a strong negative that the Rebels needed to move beyond and by the end of the film were at a point more akin to the originals were moral purpose is clear and people are told what there potentially dying for.

Last Jedi though actually seems to glory in this kind of politics and I think it makes it far far worse that it leads us on showing Poe acting in a fashion that seems heroic and logical only to shoot it down via force of plot. I mean had Poe actually been an arrogant warlike asshole I think you could look at it and see a judgement there but what we actually get is good heroic Poe is wrong because Johnson says he is and er feminism and stuff. I mean to me the message of that stops being one of self judgement and becomes an authoritarian one that no you can't actually judge yourself, only your superiors can do that so obey peasant.

You have the same with the way the Rey/Kylo plot goes, I mean what is the message there? "don't try to understand your enemies, there just evil", what kind of message is that for a franchise based on Luke forgiving and redeeming Vader?

I mean I'm not sure all of that was entitrely intension but I suspect its the product of a confused/rushed mess of a script produced in a media environment that couldn't see this kind of stuff as negative.

 

[minute bull]

That's hard to factor in how negatively something is going to be received; no one in Hollywood knows anything. It's easy to make corrections in hindsight, but I daresay it's more of a challenge than this guy below thinks.

I take it you had a very different kind of reply in mind, but decided against it. Just a hunch.

What did you say about cognitive dissonance earlier?

And no need go to mock someone's "fan fic" when that person clearly was just writing it t make a point that anyone could come up w/ a better idea than Rian Johns on if given five minutes.

You had like an hour, man.

 

[Amerikuracana]

Not joking but I hope the First Order wins.

Right. Kylo ends up being the good guy, and the first order..... You know what, it wouldn't be cool. They have literally set it up so nothing cool can come out of this. They needed a new kind of story. They embarrassed themselves using the same story.

Should have been a rising sith order that needed to be stopped, with a quest to find an ancient force artifact that would give more power to the finder.

I would have gone with a trilogy about that, with Luke needing to be found to stop the reincarnation of plagues (it auto corrected) and friends from finding the source of the force.. Would have made the scale of the small size of "the rebellion" (it's just so stupid, doing the same shit again) make more sense. This series would have allowed for flashbacks to the KOTOR times, and more interesting lore. Could have included the Senate authorizing missions etc... Knowing that if the Sith, and an army of force users, were to find the source/artifact, even their military could be toppled. A rebirth of a Jedi council could have been authorized.

I could literally write a bomb trilogy based on this premise.



I'm not interested in the rebellion winning, either. I don't care if, or how they do it. I don't want them to govern anything either, and don't think they could. Current state of affairs sucks.

 

[Cool Hand Luke]

I take it you had a very different kind of reply in mind, but decided against it. Just a hunch.

you must not know Mariah very well....

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

They just couldn't make Luke Skywalker a badass. What a waste