STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI

[TrueBias]

Hilarious. I typed that and wondered if anyone will be reminded of the line in Batman.

Have YOU ever danced with the devil in the pale moonlight?

 

[minute bull]

Show of hands... does anyone really not get it? We never got Dooku's back story. He's a Jedi turned Sith... boom... mic drop... that's all you need to know. Do we really "need" more on Snoke? He's a very talented force sensitive dude who went dark & got a lot of power. We all understand that. Any one who raises their hand on my previous question will be reported & thrashed. Everyone knows how people get power in this universe. The stories have been told.... we don't need the specifics.

I got into a weeklong debate over Finn and Rose getting back to base, there are just people who refuse to get. And it's not like they don't get it get it, it's not that they don't get it get it -- they get it get it. They just don't want to get it get it got it good.

People just want a compelling story and without one they struggle for answers that don't need to be answered. You liked the story. I liked the story. Plenty of people liked the story just fine. But for the few (or many, depending on whom you ask) who didn't care for the story -- yeah, they're not going to get it.

And I pity them fools.

 

[Cool Hand Luke]

 

[Myrddin Wild]

I got into a weeklong debate over Finn and Rose getting back to base, there are just people who refuse to get. And it's not like they don't get it get it, it's not that they don't get it get it -- they get it get it. They just don't want to get it get it got it good.

People just want a compelling story and without one they struggle for answers that don't need to be answered. You liked the story. I liked the story. Plenty of people liked the story just fine. But for the few (or many, depending on whom you ask) who didn't care for the story -- yeah, they're not going to get it.

And I pity them fools.

Thanx for tagging me with that... I was wondering if anyone got it, gets it, maybe gunna got it or is in the process of getting it... but I was starting to think those people who do... just don't bother coming around here any more since the resistance took it over.

Curious as to how the debate surrounding how Finn & Rose got back to the base went. Can you cliff notes me on what was the key argument in favor of them pulling it off waz?

 

[Da Speeit]

what's all this about a proposed remake?
I hate how these threads are structured

 

[minute bull]

Thanx for tagging me with that... I was wondering if anyone got it, gets it, maybe gunna got it or is in the process of getting it... but I was starting to think those people who do... just don't bother coming around here any more since the resistance took it over.

Curious as to how the debate surrounding how Finn & Rose got back to the base went. Can you cliff notes me on what was the key argument in favor of them pulling it off waz?

Oh buddy. IamStryker considered Finn dragging Rose back to the base on Crait a plot hole, and I said how they got back was inconsequential. It went on for literally days my trying to explain what actually constitutes a plot hole and him shutting me down on every level thinking I was telling him to turn his brain off and accept the film as-is, which wasn't at all the case. It crossed-over into the legitimacy of Finn's decision to crash into the cannon vs Rose's "audacity" of crashing into him before he could do so. So I went into the nature of "successful missions" and "selfish motivations" and it was a real shit-show that went absolutely nowhere. He staunchly asserted my reasoning was nonsense.

 

[HomerThompson]

I guess i must go to the front page to see this poster?

Oh and, holy shit guys... Mortal Kombat Annihilation is not better than last jedi. Lets not get nuts.

No, but Mortal Kombat is.

 

[90 50]

Lets see if he is actually dead though - I suspect JJ will provide some fan service here.

There are numerous theories on this , his hand not falling I think was a mistake and they might try and capture that somehow.

Even Rian has suggested there is a reason, but that was much after the fact and I suspect he was trolling.

Its a little important because his existence creates a bit of a hole in the canon. The sith are gone but someone else needed to be powerful enough to teach him. I guess? He seems to have been old enough to have been around at the same time as Vader and Sidious. But they didnt know about him? Or did they? And he takes over Sidious' footsteps? Somehow?

It's just question after question. Saying "its not important to the story" is subjective. Other people can and do disagree.




Thats a very different thing since this is essentially continuing the story that was started in the original trilogy. You can create a narrative out of thin air to begin your story. Theres an evil emperor, a mad king, a horrible troll under a bridge, etc without explaining it. But if you continue the story and something else takes its place after its been defeated then there should be an explanation.

This has been talked about a bunch, Sidious felt something in the outer regions , but Vader could not, presumably because there was some light left in him.

The imagery of his death was perfect. It's timing was horrendous.

Exactly
<{monica}>

Im hoping for it. But maybe an end of the movie reveal, instead of him being in it. Something like Rey goes back to visit the site of his death. Learned where he disappeared, gets all teary eyed, starts to walk away. Then turns her head and says "Wheres his hand". Cut to Lukes bionic hand inputting some commands on a ship, some beeping from a droid and you just see his face saying "The unknown regions". Engage light speed, cut to credits.


Off the top of my head, anyway.

One of the crazier theories is that Luke isn’t actually on Actu, he’s force projecting himself there and that’s why Rey can’t sense him at first when she connects to the force(we know it’s because he cut him self off and when he comes back Yoda pops up out of no where)

And he force projected himself to actu, and from there to Crait, presumably because of distance, like he’s way the fuck off in the uncharted territory somewhere

So when we see him “Die” he’s just letting go of the force projection from Actu, since his hand doesn’t drop.

Interesting theory but has holes in it, it there are holes in what they presented us with anyway.

 

[Bob Gray]

Show of hands... does anyone really not get it? We never got Dooku's back story. He's a Jedi turned Sith... boom... mic drop... that's all you need to know. Do we really "need" more on Snoke? He's a very talented force sensitive dude who went dark & got a lot of power. We all understand that. Any one who raises their hand on my previous question will be reported & thrashed. Everyone knows how people get power in this universe. The stories have been told.... we don't need the specifics.

Dooku doesnt need an introduction because he isnt a main antagonist taking the place of a previously defeated antagonist. So his presence doesnt make an unanswerable question. I explained this earlier.


Literally no one doesnt get that hes a powerful force user. Whether or not you feel like they explained enough is a completely subjevtice position. I dont know if you know it, but what that means is your opinion is no more or less valid than mine. If I say it wasnt enough to convince me, its just as reasonable and valid as you saying it is enough. So I have no idea what youre trying to explain here. I know what you think. I just disagree with it.

Sidious sensed him & mentioned in the movie that he sensed a dark presence coming from the unknown regions. If that's not enough to link it to Snoke, there's outside Canon that confirms it.

He didn't take over Sidious' footsteps. This isn't explained in the movie.... but he saw Sidious as a rival & a threat & he actively kept himself hidden from confronting him.

After Ep. 6 when the Empire retreated to the unknown territory, it was a group hired by Snoke that showed them where to go in order to get re-organized. They thought they were doing it for themselves but at some point they were surprised to find that Snoke just stepped up & claimed ownership of the new effort with his power & influence. Nobody could dispute him & so Snoke became the supreme leader.

That's all Canon out side the movie... and it would be nice to see on film, but it is completely un-necessary. it's also completely un-necessary for everyone to pretend like those explanations in other media don't count... due to the fact that they weren't in the movie. Star Wars Canon fills in the blanks.

Bringing in outside canon to answer questions from the movie isnt a valid defense of the movie. Outside books and comics shouldnt need to fill in the blanks.

I just layed it out for you in detail... & I've done that for others as well. Hopefully you can take a higher road & accept that the story is told & that it doesn't necessarily all have to be played out in the movie. Many of the hard core haters refuse to accept it if it wasn't spelled out in the movie. I could understand their point of view if it was critical information to the plot... but "how" Snoke gained power is completely irrelevant. All you have to know is that he was the man. You don't have to know "why." So for the plot to work. It's a curiosity at best.

I understand completely that this is your entirely subjective opinion. Youre just as entitled to it as I am of mine, and neither one of us is wrong or right.

 

[Bob Gray]

I got into a weeklong debate over Finn and Rose getting back to base, there are just people who refuse to get. And it's not like they don't get it get it, it's not that they don't get it get it -- they get it get it. They just don't want to get it get it got it good.

People just want a compelling story and without one they struggle for answers that don't need to be answered. You liked the story. I liked the story. Plenty of people liked the story just fine. But for the few (or many, depending on whom you ask) who didn't care for the story -- yeah, they're not going to get it.

And I pity them fools.

Like Ive said before, theres nothing to "get". Everyone know Finn dragged her back to base. Its valid to point out that "You know....thats a pretty long way.....and theres a lot of enemies around......and they have no cover"


Just like its valid to point out that Luke Skywalker had like 2 days of training with Yoda and becomes a jedi knight. Just like its valid to point out that the movies dont actually tell you how Vader knew who Luke Skywalker was and that he was his son.

One thing I agree with you on is that when people dislike a movie, theyre prone to nitpicking. Like complaining that Rey can swim. Thats just ridiculous.

But the opposite is also true. People that like and love a movie are less likely to say "yeah, that part doesnt make much sense", even if it totally doesnt.

 

[Da Speeit]

Like Ive said before, theres nothing to "get". Everyone know Finn dragged her back to base. Its valid to point out that "You know....thats a pretty long way.....and theres a lot of enemies around......and they have no cover"

.

That's not a plot hole. You're right, it's retarded, like everything else in this piece of shit movie, but it's not a plothole.

Both of you be quiet now please, You're right, he's wrong, but you just wont let it die. The movie sucks.

 

[90 50]

I tend to think the opposite is true.

It's because we know so much about the force & the previous lore that we DO NOT need the back story. I mean it's all spelled out all ready. It's just semantics if we give specifics.

Show of hands... does anyone really not get it? We never got Dooku's back story. He's a Jedi turned Sith... boom... mic drop... that's all you need to know. Do we really "need" more on Snoke? He's a very talented force sensitive dude who went dark & got a lot of power. We all understand that. Any one who raises their hand on my previous question will be reported & thrashed. Everyone knows how people get power in this universe. The stories have been told.... we don't need the specifics.

Yes, I "want" to know more... but i don't "need" to know more is the point I'm making. Without any back story out of the movies... I can perfectly understand how there's a big bad dark user who is the man. No problem. Everyone gets it. His back story is just a curiosity at best.

I feel they will explain it in the next movie... but if not then they'll explain it in other canon... so all good.


That "big hole in canon" is just a bit of mystery that is completely irrelevant to the plot.

I'm sure it will be told whether in the movie or elsewhere.

They showed he was powerful enough to teach Kylo in the way he toyed with Rey, Kylo & Hux so easily. That's all you "need" to know is that he has massive power. The specifics are completely irrelevant to whether the plot works or not. We understand how people get powerful. We've seen & heard lots of stories. So "how" Snoke got so powerful himself as an individual is nothing but a curiosity.

I'll give it to you that it's one hell of a major curiousity. I want to know it too... but it is not a "plot hole"... because everyone understandz how people in that universe gain that kind of power.

Sidious sensed him & mentioned in the movie that he sensed a dark presence coming from the unknown regions. If that's not enough to link it to Snoke, there's outside Canon that confirms it.

He didn't take over Sidious' footsteps. This isn't explained in the movie.... but he saw Sidious as a rival & a threat & he actively kept himself hidden from confronting him.

After Ep. 6 when the Empire retreated to the unknown territory, it was a group hired by Snoke that showed them where to go in order to get re-organized. They thought they were doing it for themselves but at some point they were surprised to find that Snoke just stepped up & claimed ownership of the new effort with his power & influence. Nobody could dispute him & so Snoke became the supreme leader.

That's all Canon out side the movie... and it would be nice to see on film, but it is completely un-necessary. it's also completely un-necessary for everyone to pretend like those explanations in other media don't count... due to the fact that they weren't in the movie. Star Wars Canon fills in the blanks.

I just layed it out for you in detail... & I've done that for others as well. Hopefully you can take a higher road & accept that the story is told & that it doesn't necessarily all have to be played out in the movie. Many of the hard core haters refuse to accept it if it wasn't spelled out in the movie. I could understand their point of view if it was critical information to the plot... but "how" Snoke gained power is completely irrelevant. All you have to know is that he was the man. You don't have to know "why." So for the plot to work. It's a curiosity at best.

I agree and disagree somewhat on most of these points, with Dooku he’s injected into the timeline at a point where

A. We know there is an evil sith emperor
B. Maul is “dead” or was at the time
C. The emperor needs and apprentice, so we understand he turned him somehow.

So his back story isn’t very important.

Snoke is a little different, he shows up out of nowhere, with emense power. Who taught him? How old is this MFer? He could have been taught centuries ago for all we know. He could be as old or even older than Yoda, I think they were trying to make him look really old, like much older than Yoda.

So to me , and most people I think his back story was more needed.

As far as the emperor sensing snoke, that’s in other writings , it you said it was in the movie too?

Which movie and where, I for the life of me can’t remember that at any point in the movies(but I don’t know the prequels that well)

But it does leave space for a new big bad, who taught snoke, did snoke kill his master like the sith before him? He’s not a sith per say so maybe not.

We know from movie scenes they are not following the sith rule of two, with The Knights of Ren, or are they?

The Knights of Ren have only been shown in flashbacks. Did snoke have Kylo kill all of the Knights of ren when snoke found him, for the rule of two?

Why Ren? Why Kylo Ren, why not Darth Kylo? He’s not a darth, so either he’s still apprentice stage or they aren’t sith.

But Ren was a sith, and ancient one, is Ren still around, and Kylo is his apprentice, unknown to snoke and that’s why he killed him?

There are so many angles we can go from this, but leaving Snokes backstory open, allows them to go what ever direction the new director chooses, which I think inpart helps not piss people off when the new director doesn’t follow the expected direction of the previous one.

Just some thoughts to ponder.

 

[Cool Hand Luke]

REY CAN SWIM??!?!?






Can Finn?

*snicker*

 

[minute bull]

But the opposite is also true. People that like and love a movie are less likely to say "yeah, that part doesnt make much sense", even if it totally doesnt.

I conceded Finn dragging back Rose under the nose of the First Order was super convenient -- but in the context of the the FO's decision-making and the dread circumstances surrounding the Resistance it wasn't at all illogical. Twasn't enough!

When I refer to "don't get it" I don't mean people don't understand it but rather they ACTIVELY refuse to enjoy it. It's not a matter of intelligence or awareness but reticence bordering on belligerence. It's a painful perspective to discuss.

You're right, he's wrong, but you just wont let it die. The movie sucks.

You're a plot hole.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

Oh buddy. IamStryker considered Finn dragging Rose back to the base on Crait a plot hole, and I said how they got back was inconsequential. It went on for literally days my trying to explain what actually constitutes a plot hole and him shutting me down on every level thinking I was telling him to turn his brain off and accept the film as-is, which wasn't at all the case. It crossed-over into the legitimacy of Finn's decision to crash into the cannon vs Rose's "audacity" of crashing into him before he could do so. So I went into the nature of "successful missions" and "selfish motivations" and it was a real shit-show that went absolutely nowhere. He staunchly asserted my reasoning was nonsense.

I actually had a similar experience with that same poster. He seemed to twist almost every thing I said... & the stuff he couldn't twist, he ignored.

On one particular instance, I straight up disproved him. no doubt about it. Did I get any recognition? Of course not. he is not debating... or even having a discussion... he only wants his point of view & nothing else. So I called him on it & told him I would not move on with our discussion until he acknowledged that I proved his point wrong... & he avoided it 2 more times & so I dropped our discussion.

The thing I proved him wrong on was when he said it was a plot hole that the First Order chased them until they ran out of gas. That was a problem for him (& his cybernetic god on the video where he seems to have gotten all his opinions from...) because he said the First Orders Canon's could not penetrate the shields while chasing them... but in space there is no resistance to fire power... so it doesn't matter how close you get to someone because the blast will be the same force. So therefore getting closer to the Raddus when they run out of gas would never make any difference.

I simply replied... "no gas = no power to run the shields"

lol... I didn't even need to get into the fact that they had "full power" on the rear shields... & so someone from the front could've shot them down. it was simple enough just to stick with that. Dude would not.... & I dare say "COULD NOT" admit that he had that wrong. I had all ready digressed to a small & minor point or 2 he had made prior... but I was not willing to keep the discussion going unless he offered me the same level of discussion. I asked him to straight up acknowledge at least that one thing that I had showed him was a flaw in his logic... & he was unable to do it.

I don't mind talking with the resistance about their issues... but only if it's a discussion that goes both ways. If it's just a lecture that I'm supposed to take notes on, then I'm not interested.

 

[90 50]

But we were left in the OT with some open ended pondering too.

“No, There is another”

Most have taken that to have meant Leia, but I did not as a kid and still don’t. Even though she was Luke’s sister, and show some affinity to the force the direction her life always led didn’t make me think she would become a Jedi

We know Yoda can see possible future outcomes so , where does that statement lye.

Here a list of cannon possibilities first, and further down non or removed from cannon.

1. Leia, don’t think so

2. Saw Ben solo being born but could not see past that far in the future

3. Rey, since she has no know connection hard to see where Yoda would have seen that , and the force awakens in her so far into the future we don’t see it.

4. Finn, same issues with Rey and unknown if he is force sensitive or not yet

5. Snoke, did Yoda sense snoke before he turned and not foresee the turn?

6. Kyle Katarn(is he still cannon, don’t think so
7. Jaden, he ends up stronger than Kyle and has interactions with Luke

8. Ezra, what happens to him, where is he after rebels?
9. Ezra’s teacher(i can’t remember his name right now, and what happens to him?)

9. Asoka, what happens to her after we see her in rebels, she starts out in clones but crosses over to rebels too and fights Vader for a holocron iirc

10. This one is non cannon now, and out of left field but has some Merit,

Galen Marek, aka Starkiller what the hell happens to him after force unleashed two?

Yoda actually met him on degobah so he knows he exists!

Rey could be his granddaughter , the star destroyer crashed into the planet on Jaku might have been a calling to this.

Would nerd out, but Snokes powerful master shows up from
The unknown regions, snoke was mearly an apprentice, Rey reaches out and her grandfather senses her and comes to f shit up
(Not happening but nerds can dream)

 

[One MMA Fan]

The imagery of his death was perfect. It's timing was horrendous.

Yea the moment is debatable but the way it happened and how it looked it's okay with me.

Was thinking if they ever killed him they need to go with how they got Obi and not like how they did Qui Gon, I didn't want a bloodied up or cut in half Luke.

I would also preferred to be in the final movie but hey what can you do it can't always be like we imagine it.

 

[minute bull]

I guess I'm the only one perfectly okay with Luke dying.

him (& his cybernetic god on the video where he seems to have gotten all his opinions from...)

He certainly is a big fan of speciously falsifying "consensus" in order to shore up his position.

 

[90 50]

Like Ive said before, theres nothing to "get". Everyone know Finn dragged her back to base. Its valid to point out that "You know....thats a pretty long way.....and theres a lot of enemies around......and they have no cover"


Just like its valid to point out that Luke Skywalker had like 2 days of training with Yoda and becomes a jedi knight. Just like its valid to point out that the movies dont actually tell you how Vader knew who Luke Skywalker was and that he was his son.

One thing I agree with you on is that when people dislike a movie, theyre prone to nitpicking. Like complaining that Rey can swim. Thats just ridiculous.

But the opposite is also true. People that like and love a movie are less likely to say "yeah, that part doesnt make much sense", even if it totally doesnt.

Finn dragging her back is retarded, but not specifically a plot whole indeed, as it has no bearing on other events really. Did they need to show them dodging at at fire? No
And all the attention was on Luke, so they made their way back with no resistance basically no one cared two people were moving across the salt at that time.

The amount of time Luke spent on Degobah has been highly debated, it is accepted it was much longer than many thought.

The hyperdrive in the falcon was out, so they couldn’t just jump to bespin, the falcon is fast but with no hyperdrive that has to take some time.

And the state of Luke’s clothes, it’s as if they used that to show the passing of time and just gave us highlights of his training.

A popular opinion is a bare minimum of three months and could have been a year or greater. Just how long would it take the falcon to get to bespin and how long did it take Luke to fix any x wing issues after being sunk. We see it covered in mud and swamp debris, then it’s clean. That didn’t happen by itself.

The imperials new the pilot was named Skywalker that destroyed the Death Star, shouldn’t be hard for Vader to figure out something there, and you have Kenobi with him, it’s not hard to concieve how that ties together, especially since Vader knows kenobi left with padme after their fight.

And I’m sure he sensed it in him.

 

[One MMA Fan]

Very few people have a problem with that, though. Even among the people I've talked with that dislike the movie pretty much everyone thinks the force projection reveal is awesome.

Personally, I think it's legitimately one of the coolest things to ever happen in Star Wars...then ruined by a completely anti-climactic and arbitrary death.

The thing is no one around this parts is giving this movie any props for the stuff they did well.

Overall this movie ain't anywhere to how bad some are making it out to be.

Not to mention the cherry on top this looked gorgeous, beautiful.. that final battle was just art.

This wide shot.. forget about it.