STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI

[BisexualMMA]

Why is Luke Skywalker a threat to Rian Johnson though? What would Rian Johnson have a vested interest in Luke's destruction? It's not necessary to move the franchise on to new heroes.

Furthermore, if that's RJ's agenda, then why end the film with Luke acting heroically?

Just heroically enough that you're glad he's back before he's taken away, and glad to be rid of the burden of living.

Luke Skywalker isn't / wasn't a threat to Rian Johnson. It was just an interesting challenge to see if he could be torn down. And also a nice way to show he was smarter than any fan theory that predicted Luke had been doing something important or useful over the last 35 years.

Like I said, if Han had been the one left standing after TFA, he would have been the target.

That's why I say this movie was primarily about Rian Johnson outsmarting everyone, rather than about the Star Wars universe or the established Star Wars characters and their journey. That's why I feel this project was approached from a poisonous place at the outset.

 

[SmilinDesperado]

Well, I never thought I'd see testicles being milked in a Disney movie either.

He's not saying, "Luke boned his nephew." He's just throwing "a pinch of salt" into the mix, a small dash of creepy uncle in the bedroom imagery.

The film had several theses to it. One of them was, "if you're not going to stop worshipping Luke Skywalker on your own, I'm going to make you do it."

This movie was so ham fisted and absurd at parts that i can't see how you're giving it enough credit to be this layered, let alone the fact that it would be absolutely insane for a director to have thoughts of philia in mind while creating a SW scene with THE Luke Skywalker.
The movie is called The Last Jedi, Luke does nothing but be an old man throughout the entire thing, he says the Jedi must end, he and Yoda burn down the old Jedi tree, lol you think they needed to also throw in "andddd btw guys, he may or may not have molested his nephew..." to get the audience to not "hero worship" him?
THIS IS A DISNEY MOVIE

 

[Guestx]

Just heroically enough that you're glad he's back before he's taken away, and glad to be rid of the burden of living.

Luke Skywalker isn't / wasn't a threat to Rian Johnson. It was just an interesting challenge to see if he could be torn down. And also a nice way to show he was smarter than any fan theory that predicted Luke had been doing something important or useful over the last 35 years.

Like I said, if Han had been the one left standing after TFA, he would have been the target.

That's why I say this movie was primarily about Rian Johnson outsmarting everyone, rather than about the Star Wars universe or the established Star Wars characters and their journey. That's why I feel this project was approached from a poisonous place at the outset.

So in your view were all the Disney execs who approved this script in on this conspiracy or were they just too dumb to recognize all the (in your view) obvious subliminal imagery and subtext?

 

[BisexualMMA]

This movie was so ham fisted and absurd at parts that i can't see how you're giving it enough credit to be this layered, let alone the fact that it would be absolutely insane for a director to have thoughts of philia in mind while creating a SW scene with THE Luke Skywalker.
The movie is called The Last Jedi, Luke does nothing but be an old man throughout the entire thing, he says the Jedi must end, he and Yoda burn down the old Jedi tree, lol you think they needed to also throw in "andddd btw guys, he may or may not have molested his nephew..." to get the audience to not "hero worship" him?
THIS IS A DISNEY MOVIE

In writing this film, Rian Johnson paid great attention to some of his goals, and some of them he half-assed, hence achieving some goals with near perfection and simultaneously having questionable plot points and dumb jokes, etc. It came down to priorities, and they perhaps weren't all compatible in one film.

 

[BisexualMMA]

So in your view were all the Disney execs who approved this script in on this conspiracy or were they just too dumb to recognize all the (in your view) obvious subliminal imagery and subtext?

Well, to be honest, I think Kathleen Kennedy is probably okay with tearing down established male heroes by almost any means necessary if it came down to it. I think Rian Johnson walked as close to the line as he could get away with when it came to this imagery. The motif is faint enough that we're having this debate about it.

The script itself doesn't need to say where the udders are placed on the space narwhal, nor precisely how the "attempted murder" scene is framed.

Aside from the product placement and perhaps some of the political messages, this script was very much Rian Johnson's baby. It has the feel of an auteur's work with a few things shoehorned in by "the committee."

 

[Guestx]

Well, to be honest, I think Kathleen Kennedy is probably okay with tearing down established male heroes by almost any means necessary if it came down to it. I think Rian Johnson walked as close to the line as he could get away with when it came to this imagery.

The script itself doesn't need to say where the udders are placed on the space narwhal, nor precisely how the "attempted murder" scene is framed.

Aside from the product placement and perhaps some of the political messages, this script was very much Rian Johnson's baby. It has the feel of an auteur's work with a few things shoehorned in by "the committee."

Okay, well let me ask you this then:

1. What kind of movie do you think we would've gotten if JJ had directed this film?

2. How would the franchise look today if Lucas was still in charge (presuming that we still got three new movies)?

 

[BisexualMMA]

Okay, well let me ask you this then:

1. What kind of movie do you think we would've gotten if JJ had directed this film?

2. How would the franchise look today if Lucas was still in charge (presuming that we still got three new movies)?

1. Probably something fairly similar to The Empire Strikes Back with 1-3 unexpected twists and emotionally satisfying resolutions for characters.

2. He'd probably be trying to push the CGI envelope and have avoided the futuristic retro return to 1970s / 80s Star Wars aesthetics. He'd also treat the Luke character with some respect and reverence, and wouldn't have torn the character down for its own sake. Maybe Luke would have even turned evil, but he wouldn't have turned useless. I can't say what he would have done exactly with the overall universe. The Gungans would probably be running shit if he had his way.

 

[Guestx]

2. He'd probably be trying to push the CGI envelope and have avoided the futuristic retro return to 1970s / 80s Star Wars aesthetics. He'd also treat the Luke character with some respect and reverence, and wouldn't have torn the character down for its own sake. Maybe Luke would have even turned evil, but he wouldn't have turned useless. I can't say what he would have done exactly with the overall universe. The Gungans would probably be running shit if he had his way.

I really wish I could see what Lucas's vision would be. I'd like to see more George Lucas Star Wars movies, but the problem seemed to be that Lucas wasn't especially interested in making more Star Wars movies. Disney at least seems very interested in continuing to tell the SW story, to the tune of what's probably going to be one to two movies per year (counting spin-offs) for the foreseeable future.

I have no idea if Lucas giving up control is a good thing or a bad thing. And I guess now we never will know and I find that kind of regrettable.

And LOL @ the Gungans. It's worth noting that they barely appear in AOTC and ROTS. Even Jar Jar basically just has cameo appearances in those films.

 

[BisexualMMA]

I really wish I could see what Lucas's vision would be. I'd like to see more George Lucas Star Wars movies, but the problem seemed to be that Lucas wasn't especially interested in making more Star Wars movies. Disney at least seems very interested in continuing to tell the SW story, to the tune of what's probably going to be one to two movies per year (counting spin-offs) for the foreseeable future.

I have no idea if Lucas giving up control is a good thing or a bad thing. And I guess now we never will know and I find that kind of regrettable.

I think ultimately, people will grow to think Lucas was the lesser evil. Many will come to wish for George's vision, but in "the grass is greener" fashion, probably fail to realize that he would have always retained so much control over the process that his scripts wouldn't get properly ironed out and the visual choices would probably not be ideal.

Regardless, as a moviegoer, I'd probably be willing to trade what I've seen for whatever was behind Door # Lucas. Rian Johnson made this latest film (deliberately) in a fashion such that you can't ignore it if you don't like it (as opposed to the prequels). It's kind of easy to dismiss whiny Anakin and pretend the story started with Episode 4 if you like. Johnson approached Luke in a way here where it's hard to dismiss.

Anyway, you're a budding filmmaker on the rise. Given that you liked The Last Jedi, I have to be glad that you don't see the film the way I do, because then liking it won't inspire you to spend a whole film in your future tearing down the wonderful creations of others.

 

[SmilinDesperado]

In writing this film, Rian Johnson paid great attention to some of his goals, and some of them he half-assed, hence achieving some goals with near perfection and simultaneously having questionable plot points and dumb jokes, etc. It came down to priorities, and they perhaps weren't all compatible in one film.

Welppppppp...i don't think it's possible for me to disagree with you any more than i already do, butttt, it's all good.
I'd smoke some weed with you to see what other out'-there ideas/views you have rolling around in your dome

 

[Guestx]

I think ultimately, people will grow to think Lucas was the lesser evil. Many will come to wish for George's vision, but in "the grass is greener" fashion, probably fail to realize that he would have always retained so much control over the process that his scripts wouldn't get properly ironed out and the visual choices would probably not be ideal.

Regardless, as a moviegoer, I'd probably be willing to trade what I've seen for whatever was behind Door # Lucas. Rian Johnson made this latest film (deliberately) in a fashion such that you can't ignore it if you don't like it (as opposed to the prequels). It's kind of easy to dismiss whiny Anakin and pretend the story started with Episode 4 if you like. Johnson approached Luke in a way here where it's hard to dismiss.

Anyway, you're a budding filmmaker on the rise. Given that you liked The Last Jedi, I have to be glad that you don't see the film the way I do, because then liking it won't inspire you to spend a whole film in your future tearing down the wonderful creations of others.

The thing about Johnson's film is that at Disney's current pace, in the grand scheme of things it's just going to be a single blip on the radar. It's hard to really know what it's long-term impact will be.

Consider this article from 2015:

https://www.polygon.com/2015/11/17/9749528/star-wars-the-force-awakens

Disney intends for Star Wars movies to continue to be made every year, indefinitely, with the series branching off in multiple directions. What will Star Wars, as a film franchise, look like 20 years now? We really could be talking about a shitload of movies. A whole NETWORK of movies.

 

[BisexualMMA]

The thing about Johnson's film is that at Disney's current pace, in the grand scheme of things it's just going to be a single blip on the radar. It's hard to really know what it's long-term impact will be.

Consider this article from 2015:

https://www.polygon.com/2015/11/17/9749528/star-wars-the-force-awakens

Disney intends for Star Wars movies to continue to be made every year, indefinitely, with the series branching off in multiple directions. What will Star Wars, as a film franchise, look like 20 years now? We really could be talking about a shitload of movies. A whole NETWORK of movies.

I think it will come to be seen as the Alien 3 of the series.

25 years after Alien 3, we're still talking about Blomkamp fixing it with Alien 2.5.

I also think some of its metaphors and meta-statements will become more apparent, and this will make it remain a critical darling in some ways. It's been called "the most intellectual Star Wars film" and in several ways it is.

 

[Loiosh]

 

[Loiosh]

I just threw this together, it was the first thing I thought when Snoke dissed the helmet.

 

[Loiosh]

I think it will come to be seen as the Alien 3 of the series.

25 years after Alien 3, we're still talking about Blomkamp fixing it with Alien 2.5.

I also think some of its metaphors and meta-statements will become more apparent, and this will make it remain a critical darling in some ways. It's been called "the most intellectual Star Wars film" and in several ways it is.

I think you're right because they killed off fan favorite characters.

 

[BisexualMMA]

I think you're right because they killed off fan favorite characters.

I would say it's because they were deliberately killed off in unsatisfying ways.

 

[BisexualMMA]

A question that I'm sure has already been posed in this thread:

Spoiler

Why did the star destroyer/dreadnaught's lasers have an arc to them in space??

I didn't really notice. Maybe it was a CGI simulation of a wide angle lens shooting the action.

 

[Jon Stark]

I didn’t enjoy. I thought Luke Skywalker presented well. Kylo ren is a mess. 5/10

 

[Loiosh]

A question that I'm sure has already been posed in this thread:

Spoiler

Why did the star destroyer/dreadnaught's lasers have an arc to them in space??

I don't know. Also,

Spoiler

Why did the bombs "drop" in space?

 

[FyrFytr998]

A question that I'm sure has already been posed in this thread:

Spoiler

Why did the star destroyer/dreadnaught's lasers have an arc to them in space??

To piss off Flat Earthers.