Star Wars Discussion: Obi-Wan vs. Mace Windu

[GracieNutHugger]

I honestly think it is more an example of Obi-Wan outsmarting Anakin, actually. He is all the time leading Anakin through areas that are advantageous to him.

Obi-Wan is kind of like Chuck Liddell was when he used to knock out guys while back peddling. You'd think you'd be getting the best of him, then Chuck would knock you out while walking backwards.

Mustafar was an example of how a smart, defensive fighter, can destroy an aggressive idiot who even refuses Obi-Wan's WARNING not to come close. Obi-Wan cuts off -three limbs- in one attack because Anakin is a fucking idiot and follows him.

I don't disagree with you in regards to the Obi-Wan/Anakin fight, he acted exactly like someone who thought he would win as long as he kept pushing forward no matter the cost, which is why I thought it would be a bad comparison because there is no example of Mace ever fighting in that mindset. Vaapad always "skirted" the dark side and Mace never displayed any affection to it (the dark side).

Thanks, bro. I looked that up too after the fact. LOL.

Good to know I'm not the only nerd here lol.

This is similar to the loggerheads I reached with my friend I was speaking about on this same topic on an instant messenger earlier tonight. I am trying to think of some greater points that might sway the topic, but so far I can't think of any.

I have been assuming a neutral ground for the battle to maximize the effectiveness. Would you agree, though, that Obi-Wan is much more likely to use his surroundings to his advantage if it is not so neutral?

Say this duel takes place in a situation similar to Mustafar. Do you agree with me that it would more likely favour him in that scenario?

Agreeable, however, if you have been assuming a "neutral" ground for Obi-Wan is that necessarily a neutral ground for Mace as well(re: Mustafar)? Even if we were to come up with a completely neutral ground for both parties, what about their mindset? Vaapad requires a tremendous amount of focus and enjoyment (so to speak). Would Mace really have that facing a fellow Jedi member? Conversely, would Obi-Wan be willing to kill one of his Jedi Masters? And vice-versa.

As someone mentioned shatterpoints, which I cannot believe I overlooked lol. Again we're dealing with two masters, would Mace be able to find Obi-Wan's? And would Obi-Wan know what they are and be able to defend them?

I really think this is a situation where there are too many variables in a fictional universe that it comes down to a personal opinion. I enjoy these kind of arguments because every party expresses themselves with little to no recourse. Unless you try to murder me

 

[Madmick]

You mean the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly right?

No, I mean Boss Godfrey from Cool Hand Luke. He wore sunglasses and never spoke during the movie, and he's one of the all time great villains of cinema.

 

[Madmick]

Dooku is the best star wars character eva.

 

[groo]

I will just say that my wife like martial arts, and martial arts movies.

And she had never really watched stars wars much. So when she saw it on TV and they broke out into a light-saber duel.....she LOL at the "Action".

It is rather pathetic when you compare it to any movie or TV show that has people fighting with weapons properly. I didn't really think about it because I saw Star Wars as a kid but when you really look closely.....Star Wars sword play is to real sword fighting as Star Trek fist fighting is to fighting. :icon_lol:

 

[Michaelangelo]

I will just say that my wife like martial arts, and martial arts movies.

And she had never really watched stars wars much. So when she saw it on TV and they broke out into a light-saber duel.....she LOL at the "Action".

It is rather pathetic when you compare it to any movie or TV show that has people fighting with weapons properly. I didn't really think about it because I saw Star Wars as a kid but when you really look closely.....Star Wars sword play is to real sword fighting as Star Trek fist fighting is to fighting. :icon_lol:

The end of the Phantom Menace had a great lightsaber fight. That was probably the only good thing about the film.

 

[burntbacon]

You mean the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly right?

I don't view Maul as menacing, either. Largely because he didn't do anything of much worth in the end. He fell before a kid Obi-Wan.

He was intimidating for only so much as we were used to Darth Vader, who is a very different type of villain.

Maul's death was some pretty bad writing that undermined a character that had been very interesting and menacing up until that point.

 

[KILL KILL]

Does anyone know if the next Star Wars movie will be set in the future or the past of the other movies? Personally, I find the extended universe past to be much much better. Bad guys like Darth Nihilus and badasses like Revan. There so much awesome star wars timeline that they could cover.

 

[strifed169er]

Does anyone know if the next Star Wars movie will be set in the future or the past of the other movies? Personally, I find the extended universe past to be much much better. Bad guys like Darth Nihilus and badasses like Revan. There so much awesome star wars timeline that they could cover.

I would flip if they made a Darth Bane or Revan movie/trilogy, they're simply the best of the best in regards to the darkside and have been in some major shit, especially Revan, he is considered the greatest sith lord ever.

I don't see why they wouldn't do it though, the Mandalorian wars would be perfect for an introduction to the EU, and I think its safe to say everyone is sick of pansy Luke's era, hes just too corny and OP, I'd take any EU action over Luke and his family tree.

 

[Magooglie]

How is he not the best star wars character ever? Get your troll crap out of here if you can't make a decent counter point.

Christopher Lee plays him.

He has a fully fleshed out lightsaber combat style and an awesome lightsaber hilt.

None of his fight scenes suck because of him.

He maintains his air of dignity throughout all his scenes.

He's sadly tragic, being betrayed in favor of the younger Anakin Skywalker.

 

[Sir Galahad]

I hate Forest Whitaker. He doesn't look right now that he's skinny. He still has a fat guy head. Looks like a human lollipop walking around.

How dare you criticize the shape of his head.

 

[Aunty Dana**]

Speaking of lightsaber forms I think a really interesting match up would be Darth Maul vs Mace. Juyo vs Vaapad

 

[Sir Galahad]

It's really got to him. I think maybe a wire came undone or something in his noggin. His hate has become....overrated.

"If anything cinturao's hate is underrated"...

 

[Shael]

Does anyone know if the next Star Wars movie will be set in the future or the past of the other movies? Personally, I find the extended universe past to be much much better. Bad guys like Darth Nihilus and badasses like Revan. There so much awesome star wars timeline that they could cover.

That would be badass

 

[Fat Abbot]

Nihilous was a total badass. Just hearing him speak hurts you.

 

[GracieNutHugger]

But back to my question:

Do you think Obi-Wan would win in a terrain that favours him, ala Mustafar? Something where he could move the battle to places where he has an unquestionable defensive advantage?

Also, what sort of terrain do you think would totally favour Mace? I can't think any off hand. Neutral probably is as close to favouring aggression as there is nothing in there that would get in the way of what he wants to do, and nothing for the defensive master to use to assist him.

If they were fighting in terrain that favours Obi-Wan he would have a better chance of winning, but then again he has to get to those positions and who's to say that Mace couldn't use that to his advantage as well? So to answer your question, yes Obi-Wan would have a better chance of winning on a more favourable terrain, but I would still give either of them an even 50-50 chance of winning.

As to what terrain would favour Mace, not many given his style of fighting. The only one I can think of would be a smaller battleground where Obi-Wan wouldn't be able to move around as much and Mace would just use his Vaapad to overwhelm him.

 

[Aunty Dana**]

If they ever make SW films set in the Old Republic era they need to have Kate Beckinsale as Bastilla.

 

[Breakitdown]

mace. obi got zulu'd by dooku (2x) and mace was whippin palpatine's ass.

 

[windkick]

 

[phesyx040]

Mace takes it.

Kenobi was a master of form 3, a defensive style, yet that didn't seem to help him against Dooku, who beat him quickly and easily, twice. Granted Dooku's form 2 specialized specifically in light saber dueling.

I think the movies clearly imply that Yoda is at least as good a saber duelist as both Dooku and Palpatine, fighting them both to stalemates with the bad guys ultimately running away from him. Surely Palpatine>Dooku.

Anakin felt that Mace was at the top of the order in terms of 'power' and Mace reached an unprecedented level of Jedi saber mastery, being the inventor and only practitioner of form 7. So really, in a straight up saber duel, I don't know how anyone could pick Kenobi.

People are only picking Obi Wan because they like his character/actor/acting performance better.

 

[phesyx040]

Also, though the scene where Palpatine kills Fisto and the other two Jedi accompanying Mace was poorly done it makes sense considering most Jedi of that era practiced form VI, one of the weakest of all the forms in terms of effectiveness in duels. Jedis were more often diplomats then warriors at that point and the only time they used their sabers was likely deflecting blaster fire. The Sith were absent from the scene for millennia. Where would they get the experience necessary to deal with a sith lord in a duel? Once a Jedi is in active duty I'd guess that infrequent sparring with other Jedi would be their only saber on saber combat experience. Palpatine trained Maul from scratch for crying out loud.