SS vs 531, Is it really just less volume

[styleten]

I want to focus on fight class. but i can't ignore strength and i'll train at home i think. If 531 is just a low volume less stress Starting strength that would be perfect. I won't get YDNDTP when i get questions but i can live with that. Aclamating to the fight is more important and my priority

 

[Pearse Shields]

5/3/1 and SS are completely different programmes with different progressions, exercises, etc. Which one you do is up to you. If you're still able to get the most out of noob gains, then go with SS, by all means.

 

[styleten]

wow i feel really ignorant. I haven't read either in at least two years. thats when i got hernia. I thought one was a remake of the other with the professional adjustments of the second author. I got some reading to do.

 

[vladimirtzu]

I've actually made faster gains off 5/3/1 then on Starting Strength. Reason being the big resets on starting strength. In reality, that makes the progression much slower then the 20-60 pound a month progression scheme. If you don't deload on 5/3/1, you can still add a huge amount of weight in a year and not have to reset.

Starting Strength is still tits for really learning the main lifts, though. My suggestion would be to do SS but not drag it out until you've stalled out and reset on everything 3 times. Wants its clear that you're running out of steam, go ahead and more forward.

 

[vladimirtzu]

wow i feel really ignorant. I haven't read either in at least two years. thats when i got hernia. I thought one was a remake of the other with the professional adjustments of the second author. I got some reading to do.

Not at all. Starting Strength is basically A) Squat, bench, dead B) squat, press, powerclean alternating A and B working out 3 times a week. You add 5 or 10 pounds to a lift every single workout. It drives home the basic lifts, and if you start light enough, can add a lot of weight to them in a fast period of time.

5/3/1 has a squat day, a bench day, a deadlift day, and a press day. Each day is dedicated to that lift and then appropriate assistance work afterwords. It has 3 different weeks, one being a 5's, one being a 3's, and one being a 1's. And you had 5 or 10 pounds to your training max every third week. (technically you're supposed to take a deload, but you sure as shit don't have to) The lower rate of progression is easier to maintain without stalling and you get a bigger variety of exercises.

 

[toonie]

I've actually made faster gains off 5/3/1 then on Starting Strength. Reason being the big resets on starting strength. In reality, that makes the progression much slower then the 20-60 pound a month progression scheme. If you don't deload on 5/3/1, you can still add a huge amount of weight in a year and not have to reset.

Starting Strength is still tits for really learning the main lifts, though. My suggestion would be to do SS but not drag it out until you've stalled out and reset on everything 3 times. Wants its clear that you're running out of steam, go ahead and more forward.

Well, I'm not going to argue with the results that you obviously had, but if you just look at it from a math perspective, if you run 5/3/1 for a year adding 10lbs per cycle, that's +120 (which is phenomenal).

With SS, if you're adding only 5lbs per day (not going to count the +10 or +15 early on), that's still 15lbs per week giving you +120 in two months. Even if you have to deload and drop 10% each month, you'll be making insane progress, more so than what you would get with 5/3/1. I'm sure someone more math inclined could develop some sort of spreadsheet or whatever.

 

[casperthegst]

im starting to think whether you do starting strength or 531 you are eventually going to end up in the same place and that it all comes out in the wash therefore best to just pick one and do it

 

[vladimirtzu]

Well, I'm not going to argue with the results that you obviously had, but if you just look at it from a math perspective, if you run 5/3/1 for a year adding 10lbs per cycle, that's +120 (which is phenomenal).

With SS, if you're adding only 5lbs per day (not going to count the +10 or +15 early on), that's still 15lbs per week giving you +120 in two months. Even if you have to deload and drop 10% each month, you'll be making insane progress, more so than what you would get with 5/3/1. I'm sure someone more math inclined could develop some sort of spreadsheet or whatever.

What I'm saying is that in reality, no one actually maintains that pace. After you reset once, you start doing things like only upping the weight one set at a time, etc. etc. just to keep it going, and that you're probably better off only doing it 2 or 3 months then continuing through 3 or 4 full resets.

At least, that's what I learned from it. If I was to do it over again, I'd still start off on starting strength, but I would've started with less weight and moved on earlier.

 

[redx2099]

what would one suggest to do for the strength part in a strength and condition workout month? im doin cardio 3 days a week but it seems like it is stalling my lifts on ss. infact, my lifts have been goin down.

 

[lpaulgib]

That's when SS recommends micro loading and then eventually into a less aggressive program like Texas method or madcow.


I ran 531 for almost a year and enjoyed it but I switched to Texas method and have enjoyed quicker gains.

My only problem with the Texas method is the intensity day is killer, and my deadlifts have stalled due to a lack of volume. But my squats and presses have been going up great.

I think the biggest difference is the full body vs split. Personally I prefer to get under the bar and squat 3x a week over once a week. Nothing really makes me feel "strong" like some good deep squat sets.


From the sounds of it you probably fall under a beginner lifter. A lot of people here throw out 531 quick BC its a great program.

I would suggest maybe try SS, start light and hone technique down and see where it takes you. It you find it to be a bit much then check out 531.

 

[LZD]

If you have time between now and your next competition, run SS for 4-8 weeks. That will get you "jump started", so to speak. Consider it a 4-8 week "strength block". Then switch to the much less aggressive 531 as you start getting "fight acclimated".

 

[toonie]

im starting to think whether you do starting strength or 531 you are eventually going to end up in the same place and that it all comes out in the wash therefore best to just pick one and do it

You may end up in the same place, but one could take much longer than the other.

 

[LZD]

PS for reference, I'm running SS after a long lay-off from lifting. Seven weeks in I'm hitting my old squat PR for 3x5, and I've gained 7kg - or 2.2 lbs per week.

 

[vladimirtzu]

Definitely interesting how different things affect different bodies.

 

[wisdom blows]

I prefer strong lifts 5x5 to both.

 

[luckyshot]

I like 5/3/1 better because you don't have to deal with plateaus, missing weights and trying to figure out if you should push through, are ready for a mini-reset or full reset, etc., as early.

People say SS is a better beginner program all the time, but I think that is overlooking the fact that after about 2.5 months most lifters on SS are going to be in a place where they have to make some tough programming decisions without a whole lot of experience to draw from.

If you have a coach, SS might be better, but 5/3/1 is better if you want to avoid ambiguity for a longer time period.

 

[Pro Killer]

Definitely interesting how different things affect different bodies.

Definetly....

But you are wrong if you think you can progress anywhere near as much with 5/3/1 as you can with SS!

The only reason I see for people picking 5/3/1 over SS in the beginning is ego!

 

[Gfreak]

The only reason I see for people picking 5/3/1 over SS in the beginning is ego!

Wut? I don't understand this reasoning at all... 5/3/1 you're supposed to consistently be working with weights well under your max...and people choose it because of their ego? :icon_neut

 

[Pro Killer]

Because of their ego because its perceived as being more an intermediate program than SS!

If you look at the program's SS uses a higher % of your 5RM as you are obviously trying to improve it every week. Wendlers version requires you work below this max and the only reason you would do this is because you have stalled on linear progression! Why else would you do this? Your not going to get nearly as strong lifting lighter weights so theres no logical explanation not to do SS than if you've stalled linear and need something else.

Therefore what I mean is that people use ego because they pick a program with an alternative method because they don't want to see themselves as a "beginner".

Also 'Starting' Strength gives off the Starting impression and some guys can't take that!

 

[Kruppe]

I like 5/3/1 better because you don't have to deal with plateaus, missing weights and trying to figure out if you should push through, are ready for a mini-reset or full reset, etc., as early.

People say SS is a better beginner program all the time, but I think that is overlooking the fact that after about 2.5 months most lifters on SS are going to be in a place where they have to make some tough programming decisions without a whole lot of experience to draw from.

If you have a coach, SS might be better, but 5/3/1 is better if you want to avoid ambiguity for a longer time period.

I really think this is overcomplicating it. You do the worksets at normal progression until you miss three times in a row, then you reset by 10% and work back up and through your plateaus. If you can no longer progress on SS, you move to a new program like Madcow, Texas Method, or even 5/3/1 (or something else equally appropriate).

SS (or Stronglifts, for that matter) is simply better for a beginning lifter if they are wanting to get stronger. For example, what 5/3/1 accomplishes in roughly a year of time on the squat SS can do in about two months for a beginner. 5/3/1 becomes a superior program when the lifter is no longer able to make progress on SS.

I'm a prime candidate for SS--I'm finally back in the gym and SS works best for making me stronger fast. I want to be done with it mentally because frankly, it's boring. But it is the most efficient program for my goals at the moment given how weak I am currently.