Squats: Are they REALLY necessary?

Anyone who says they don't care how they look is a liar. That doesn't mean they b do anything about it...


Except maybe hard core runners who ridicule anyone who touches a weight. That's some self delusion right there.
 
JRT6 said:
Anyone who says they don't care how they look is a liar. That doesn't mean they b do anything about it...


Except maybe hard core runners who ridicule anyone who touches a weight. That's some self delusion right there.
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Speaking of... is there any benefit for an endurance runner to squat?
 
ballhawkdawk said:
Speaking of... is there any benefit for an endurance runner to squat?
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Yes. To train ROMs, musculature, and loads not used in running. Which has the benefits of (1) Reducing risk of injury, (2) More efficient running, due to avoiding/limiting muscular imbalances, less muscular fatigue (3) General health benefits, (4) Faster final kick, more effective speed work / hill work, etc.

That said, there's no reason to expect a pure endurance runner to squat a lot.
 
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ballhawkdawk said:
Speaking of... is there any benefit for an endurance runner to squat?
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They seem to help me, especially on long untras on tough mountainous terrain. You end up pretty crushed so having the extra strength seems to help. Climbing and decending in the dark on sketch trails...Ill take some strength.

I always lol at runners who don't lift. Im really surprised they are still around given the evidence. People look at me like Im out of place at ultra runs (6"4, 200-205), but Im usually crushing those skinny fat joggers, especially later in the races.
 
Tosa said:
Yes. To train ROMs, musculature, and loads not used in running. Which has the benefits of (1) Reducing risk of injury, (2) More efficient running, due to avoiding/limiting muscular imbalances, less muscular fatigue (3) General health benefits, (4) Faster final kick, more effective speed work / hill work, etc.

That said, there's no reason to expect a pure endurance runner to squat a lot.
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I actually think that most people really arent strong enough to run well/properly. Strength is really important in running IMO.
 
ironwolf said:
I actually think that most people really arent strong enough to run well/properly. Strength is really important in running IMO.
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Evidently most people aren't even running correctly to begin with. Heel strikes and poor distribution of weight on the feet.
 
magick said:
Evidently most people aren't even running correctly to begin with. Heel strikes and poor distribution of weight on the feet.
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I Agree 100%

It seems like the majority of "runners" just head out the door but pay no attention to mechanics or form. Im always amazed at races how bad some people run, yet they finish marathons, I guess those are the ones who get injured more frequently.
 
My coworker that runs ultra marathons is always singing the praises of heavier squatting and says he recommends it to a lot of other runners. Hes like 45 and said it primarily helps in durability and injury prevention.
 
WHen I was into triathlons, lots of us squatted. I alwaus thought they helped but lots of people thought it was stupid. I also liked to OHP which helped my shoulders not just for swimming but for sitting in the aero position on a triathlon bike for a 5 hour Ironman bike leg.

In fact I would say that weight training helped my biking more than anything and not just for power output but for shoulder and neck strength stuff to stay in an aggressive bike position for a long time.

IT was always amazing to see late in the 112 mile ironman bike leg all the guys with 10,000 dollar bikes siting on the bull horns because they were too sore to get aero and do what their bikes were meant to do.
 
To me my squat and my running are independent. I'm a lifter who runs not a runner who lifts so that's my frame of reference. I have found though through repeated trial and error that too much speed work and too much HIIT kills my squat much more than LSD.
 
ManiacTroll said:
Actually practicing the sport that I'm doing.
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What you are saying would comdemn all conditioning. Even oldschool boxers or whatever ran and did pushups and stuff beside the sport and that's as oldschool and conservative as you can get from people who at that time were afraid of touching weights.
I don't thing there are any high level athletes in any sport who do ONLY their sport and not some strength or conditioning work even if they don't do weights
 
Lots of good info and insight coming out of this thread by some.....lmfao at others.

As a boxer I'm interested in getting the best I can at boxing. No one is disputing the squat is the king of leg (maybe all?) exercises for developing maximum strength.

And no one is saying not to do any S&C at all and just box or play your sport. It's about prioritizing your S&C for what you're doing.

A boxer doesn't need the same level of max strength as maybe other athletes like powerlifters or linebackers. So if the energy used for heavy frequent squatting can be redistributed to something higher priority like conditioning or skills and one can get the required amount of leg strength (for a boxer) from a sub-par leg exercise is it worth it and what's your experience with it. That was the question.

That question turned into - 'if you don't squat you're a pussy bro and you're just making excuses'. Sorry to break it to some of you but lifting heavy weights alone doesn't make you tough. I'm more afraid of the guy that has a mediocre squat but has done muay thai or some other combat sport for a few years than some fatass that squats 500lbs and doesn't. I've seen plenty of guys step into the ring with impressive gym numbers that get their asses handed to them by guys that don't have nearly as heavy of a squat, or squat at all. It's a little more complicated than just strength alone, or just skill alone. Obviously there's a balance.

I suspect most of the dogmatic 'if you don't squat you're a pussy bro' posters just lift and don't actually do a combat sport or sport on the side very seriously.

Again, not saying squats aren't the best max strength developer - I've been squatting my entire training life, but I'm always looking at ways to optimize my sport. If Ross Enamait has an entire program devoted to boxers without a single barbell squat - then guess what, I'm going to explore that (as a boxer). If I was a powerlifter I'd say fuck that, not squatting isn't an option.

Ultimately I've ended up finding a good balance....I'm back to my boxing gym full time as of last month. So I'm back on Tactical Barbell (fighter) with a squat/OHP/pull-up cluster, plus occasional kb swings for posterior/pull balance. I may switch that up with a DL/Bench/weighted pull-up cluster every 6 weeks, we'll see.

Since I'm only squatting twice a week with the TB template, it's working very smoothly with my concurrent boxing training. So thankfully, I'm getting the best of both worlds - doing the boxing / conditioning stuff 3-4 times a week, and TB/lifting twice a week. One doesn't seem to be affecting the other negatively. So far it's been the perfect balance for me. Squatting 3 times a week would've been too much and not in my best interests- and not squatting at all doesn't seem like the best approach either.
I made my decision to keep the squats based on some of the (intelligent non-emo) responses here btw.
 
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PivotPunch said:
What you are saying would comdemn all conditioning. Even oldschool boxers or whatever ran and did pushups and stuff beside the sport and that's as oldschool and conservative as you can get from people who at that time were afraid of touching weights.
I don't thing there are any high level athletes in any sport who do ONLY their sport and not some strength or conditioning work even if they don't do weights
Click to expand...

All high level athletes do is train. They have the time for it and indeed, they should do a lot of strength and conditioning.

But if you can only allocate a few hours per week to your sport, it may well be that you'll get better at the sport of your choice if you exclusively do that sport, and don't waste time with S&C, at least initially. Depending on the sport, the point where you'd be better off allocating some of those X hours per week to S&C occurs sooner or later.

An exception to this is prevention assistance work.
 
vrain said:
Lots of good info and insight coming out of this thread by some.....lmfao at others.

As a boxer I'm interested in getting the best I can at boxing. No one is disputing the squat is the king of leg (maybe all?) exercises for developing maximum strength.

And no one is saying not to do any S&C at all and just box or play your sport. It's about prioritizing your S&C for what you're doing.

A boxer doesn't need the same level of max strength as maybe other athletes like powerlifters or linebackers. So if the energy used for heavy frequent squatting can be redistributed to something higher priority like conditioning or skills and one can get the required amount of leg strength (for a boxer) from a sub-par leg exercise is it worth it and what's your experience with it. That was the question.

That question turned into - 'if you don't squat you're a pussy bro and you're just making excuses'. Sorry to break it to some of you but lifting heavy weights alone doesn't make you tough. I'm more afraid of the guy that has a mediocre squat but has done muay thai or some other combat sport for a few years than some fatass that squats 500lbs and doesn't. I've seen plenty of guys step into the ring with impressive gym numbers that get their asses handed to them by guys that don't have nearly as heavy of a squat, or squat at all. It's a little more complicated than just strength alone, or just skill alone. Obviously there's a balance.

I suspect most of the dogmatic 'if you don't squat you're a pussy bro' posters just lift and don't actually do a combat sport or sport on the side very seriously.

Again, not saying squats aren't the best max strength developer - I've been squatting my entire training life, but I'm always looking at ways to optimize my sport. If Ross Enamait has an entire program devoted to boxers without a single barbell squat - then guess what, I'm going to explore that (as a boxer). If I was a powerlifter I'd say fuck that, not squatting isn't an option.

Ultimately I've ended up finding a good balance....I'm back to my boxing gym full time as of last month. So I'm back on Tactical Barbell (fighter) with a squat/OHP/pull-up cluster, plus occasional kb swings for posterior/pull balance. I may switch that up with a DL/Bench/weighted pull-up cluster every 6 weeks, we'll see.

Since I'm only squatting twice a week with the TB template, it's working very smoothly with my concurrent boxing training. So thankfully, I'm getting the best of both worlds - doing the boxing / conditioning stuff 3-4 times a week, and TB/lifting twice a week. One doesn't seem to be affecting the other negatively. So far it's been the perfect balance for me. Squatting 3 times a week would've been too much and not in my best interests- and not squatting at all doesn't seem like the best approach either.
I made my decision to keep the squats based on some of the (intelligent non-emo) responses here btw.
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emo responses?

So Like I said earlier there are ways to not squat and still put up high squat numbers, it's common sense. You can do plenty of weighted exercises and still have strength and power when you need it that would be equivalent if not better than a person who swears by squatting.

Again for those of you who think reading about the anatomy of muscular development isn't beneficial, you really need to pick up a book related to your chosen training regiment and learn the basics before posting irrelevant fly by the seat of your pants comments on places like Sherdog. The posters here will only feed you mounds of misinformation they picked up online that they swear by because it's "trendy" or because they heard about it from someone at the gym.
 
For what its worth, I used to do your standard 3x5 rippetoe style squats, or reverse pyramid, or 5-3-1. I do think it helped overall to give my legs a good foundation of strength. I hardly ever squat now but when I do I retained a good amount of strength.

That being said, for the last year I have switched to single-rep weighted pistol squats. The reason is because my legs got very big with regular squats and my body began to look disproportionate. My body had the V type shape except upside-down. I noticed people began looking at me, and looking right to my legs. It took a lot of focus of my upper body like chest and abs in my opinion.

I worked along side this trainer who had worked with a few clients for acting jobs and what not. He told me as respectfully as possible that my look looked a little sleazy with my legs too big and my upper body too long and lean. He recommended the one-rep pistols and told me I wouldn't miss a beat in strength but I wouldn't put on more size. He was right.

The single rep pistol squats have helped me gain strength in my legs and more importantly gain an athleticism I didn't have before. I was athletic before, but now things like box jumps have gone through the roof and that never happened squatting. I am also happy with the size of my legs so I am glad the single rep keeps it to where I gain strength but not size.

I am much happier without squatting often and feel much more explosive and quick as well. I hope this helps.
 
artofeightlimbs said:
For what its worth, I used to do your standard 3x5 rippetoe style squats, or reverse pyramid, or 5-3-1. I do think it helped overall to give my legs a good foundation of strength. I hardly ever squat now but when I do I retained a good amount of strength.

That being said, for the last year I have switched to single-rep weighted pistol squats. The reason is because my legs got very big with regular squats and my body began to look disproportionate. My body had the V type shape except upside-down. I noticed people began looking at me, and looking right to my legs. It took a lot of focus of my upper body like chest and abs in my opinion.

The single rep pistol squats have helped me gain strength in my legs and more importantly gain an athleticism I didn't have before. I was athletic before, but now things like box jumps have gone through the roof and that never happened squatting. I am also happy with the size of my legs so I am glad the single rep keeps it to where I gain strength but not size.

I am much happier without squatting often and feel much more explosive and quick as well. I hope this helps.
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Bro, chicks love huge legs and ass on dude...if that's what you're going for lol.
 
Chute Stomp said:
Bro, chicks love huge legs and ass on dude...if that's what you're going for lol.
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My legs have a good size, I prefer the leaner, warrior type physique verses a bodybuilder one.

I also train Muay-Thai and play sports only for fun so I don't need the extra mass.
 
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