Squats: Are they REALLY necessary?

[KnightTemplar]

Steve maxwell is the man. I'll take his advice over anybody here.

The Troll is strong with this one.

 

[JauntyAngle]

Steve maxwell is the man. I'll take his advice over anybody here.

There are many really knowledgeable people out there. But people sometimes say things that are ill-considered, in need of qualification or just plain wrong. Especially with internet writings where the level of review and quality control is so low.

To pick your favourite S&C guy and say you will always go with them, and never accept any point, criticism or qualification of anyone here (when this forum includes professional S&C coaches and elite strength athletes) is either

a) Fanboyism
b) A remarkable display of uncritical thing
c) A failure to understand how difficult it is to ever be unconditionally correct
d) Demonstrating some sort of butthurtness about this forum
e) Dumb

I won't say which of these applies to you, but I don't see how it could not be at least one.

I am a huge fan of Tudor Bompa, whose writings and achievements far exceed those of this guy you love so much. But I will not automatically dismiss any criticism of Bompa's writings made by anyone here. Like everyone else on this earth he is not perfect, and the world is not such that only the very elite of S&C coaches and authorities can see the ways in which he is not perfect.

 

[ironwolf]

The Troll is strong with this one.

Has a different opinion = troll???

 

[ironwolf]

There are many really knowledgeable people out there. But people sometimes say things that are ill-considered, in need of qualification or just plain wrong. Especially with internet writings where the level of review and quality control is so low.

To pick your favourite S&C guy and say you will always go with them, and never accept any point, criticism or qualification of anyone here (when this forum includes professional S&C coaches and elite strength athletes) is either

a) Fanboyism
b) A remarkable display of uncritical thing
c) A failure to understand how difficult it is to ever be unconditionally correct
d) Demonstrating some sort of butthurtness about this forum
e) Dumb

I won't say which of these applies to you, but I don't see how it could not be at least one.

I am a huge fan of Tudor Bompa, whose writings and achievements far exceed those of this guy you love so much. But I will not automatically dismiss any criticism of Bompa's writings made by anyone here. Like everyone else on this earth he is not perfect, and the world is not such that only the very elite of S&C coaches and authorities can see the ways in which he is not perfect.

Well perhaps I am a bit biased as I have worked with Steve in the past and actually talk to fairly regularily. At the same time though Im rarely very serious with anything I say on the internt. It just seems like sometimes the internet is full of people talking like they know better than the Pros.

Tudor Bompa....never heard of him.

 

[Chungungo]

The guy on the left bases his entire S&C around the squat(albeit front squat), AND he drinks milk.

I left milk almost 100% and have no problems but was wondering this was a problem of throwing the low kick with a full straight leg, internal lows are complicated...

I do sprints because I cannot squat right now but I hope I won

 

[JauntyAngle]

Tudor Bompa....never heard of him.

Really? Here you go:

Tudor Bompa is often regarded as the father of periodization theory, a training system developed by the Soviets that emphasised on variable loads for optimal performance throughout the year rather than maintaining a constant training focus. Bompa's training theory was basically a summary of periodisation basics laid out by L.P. Matveev and others in his early (and unfortunately only) English published Theory and Methodology of Training. Bompa's understanding of Periodisation has been passed from Eastern Bloc to the Americas in a bit incomplete and sometimes inaccurate interpretation, although with Soviets it secured their domination within athletic field for almost three decades. He was on the faculty of the Romanian Institute of Sport.

As a coach, Dr. Bompa trained 11 medalists in various Olympics (2 gold medals) and World championships in 2 sport disciplines: track and field and rowing. He was himself an Olympic rower, and he later revolutionized the training concepts in cross country skiing.

"Periodization training for sports" is available as a Kindle book. Extremely super-recommended by me.

Well perhaps I am a bit biased as I have worked with Steve in the past and actually talk to fairly regularily. At the same time though Im rarely very serious with anything I say on the internt. It just seems like sometimes the internet is full of people talking like they know better than the Pros.

Fair enough. But such is the nature of internet communities, or indeed all commentary about the work of experts.

Anyway a less obnoxious way of saying what you said would have been

"Given Steve Maxwell's knowledge and expertise, other things being equal if there was a difference between him and any forum member, my starting point would be that Steve would be correct. However, I would evaluate the difference using reason and my knowledge of S&C, and it might very well be that eventually I would come to agree with the forum member- although that would surprise me."

The way you said it didn't make you look good.

 

[livingdeadmoose]

Overrated...eventually gonna get back pain, and sometimes heavy squats can detract technique training

Best thing i've done is remove heavy axial loading..although naturally I've lost a little bit of strength, whatever more technique training for me

If anything squatting can help prevent future back pain. I've known desk jockeys that have never lifted a day in their life that have back pain.

I love some of the comments in here. "Heavy lifting is overrated" "Pistol squats are just fine" lol

 

[KnightTemplar]

Has a different opinion = troll???

Having a different opinion is absolutely fine. Dismissing everyone in F13, which includes several elite level and veteran Lifters, out of hand is either Trolling or Florida.

I wanted to give you the benefit if the doubt, so I went with Trolling.

 

[Kerr Smash]

Yes. Got a problem with it?

No just most of your posts here are starting to follow a pattern of stupidity. Idk maybe your trolling now.

 

[Dan O]

Really? Here you go:

"Periodization training for sports" is available as a Kindle book. Extremely super-recommended by me.

Fair enough. But such is the nature of internet communities, or indeed all commentary about the work of experts.

Anyway a less obnoxious way of saying what you said would have been

"Given Steve Maxwell's knowledge and expertise, other things being equal if there was a difference between him and any forum member, my starting point would be that Steve would be correct. However, I would evaluate the difference using reason and my knowledge of S&C, and it might very well be that eventually I would come to agree with the forum member- although that would surprise me."

The way you said it didn't make you look good.

That's all well and good but has he produced any kettlebell games world champions??

 

[nonsense1989]

Or better yet, he hasn't produced a hard ass e-tough guy like ironwolf,
So therefore he's garbage, unlike Steve Maxwell

 

[ironwolf]

Or better yet, he hasn't produced a hard ass e-tough guy like ironwolf,
So therefore he's garbage, unlike Steve Maxwell

Hey hey hey, no need for all the butt hurt guys....Afterall, this is the internet, not real life...

 

[lpaulgib]

Well perhaps I am a bit biased as I have worked with Steve in the past and actually talk to fairly regularily. At the same time though Im rarely very serious with anything I say on the internt. It just seems like sometimes the internet is full of people talking like they know better than the Pros.

Tudor Bompa....never heard of him.

Several guys on S&C here are more than qualified to train pros. The problem I have with your statement is that pro fighters only recognize that they are stronger in the ring/mat after working with their coach. They don't actually understand the principals that were applied to get them there. So they are filled with opinions that might not apply to someone with a different training history and needs, or just might be plain wrong.

 

[SGK]

Just train upper body, your legs will respond to your upper body mass, like that Milo of Croton story. As your chest and arms get bigger, your legs will too, from having to carry around your swole ass upper body all the time.

yeah but the myth was that he carried a calf (omg progressive overload) around on his back everyday up hills and shit until it was fully grown (over 1000lbs).

that's axial loading like the squat bro. if you wanna get strong you gotta load the spine and there's no way around it.

if you want to impress the boys with your sexy, big, round badonkadonk then probably you should squat.

yeah actually

 

[JRT6]

I like Maxwell and I think he's in freak shape for his age too. I like his jits although his seminars get weird and esoteric. That being said he is hardly the end all be all just as no one else is. That claim by Ironwolf was nothing but him being provocative and dragging Maxwell's name in this thread is hardly showing Maxwell the respect Ironwolf claims.

 

[spiderguardman]

Just saw Boyles functional strength coach 5 and he once again made his points on why he doesnt use barbell squats anymore.

Basicly its all about risc versus reward when training high level athlethes, he is all about keeping people on the field and any injury sustained in the gym is unacceptable.

What he basicly does is that the only loaded bilateral squating he does is goblet squats for reps up to 20.
This sustains the pattern which is very important to master and own.
However he doesnt seem to think you need to load it much if you can get your athlethes lower body strength up with single leg variations.
To give some examples he showed some kids doing sets of +15reps of bulgarian split squats with +200pounds of weight along with a 300pound guy doing single leg squats.
He also had some dude banging out reps of 315 on single leg deadlifts.

The reason he does all this is called bilateral defiency.
Basicly you are stronger on one leg compared to two if you add it up.
So most his guys could easily do alot more than half their front squat on single leg versions.
What this says is that in alot of cases its the lower back holding your lower body strength back.
For bilateral strength and power he uses trap bar deads and olympic lifts.

Now before anyone getting butthurt i think you should just accept that this is just another way to train.
Bilateral squatting will always be the simplest way to get big and strong.
However i think its really cool when smart people find ways for people who are too jacked up to get under the bar to find other options.

 

[Archmagi]

I agree. I simply can't fathom why you'd look for a reason not to squat. It's fabulous.

Because they're hard, require a lot of effort, the legs aren't a "glamor" muscle, the leg press gives the illusion of awesome, people are lazy and weak minded.

I don't like squatting, but because I don't, I have to squat.

 

[Eric Brown]

Just saw Boyles functional strength coach 5 and he once again made his points on why he doesnt use barbell squats anymore.

Basicly its all about risc versus reward when training high level athlethes, he is all about keeping people on the field and any injury sustained in the gym is unacceptable.

What he basicly does is that the only loaded bilateral squating he does is goblet squats for reps up to 20.
This sustains the pattern which is very important to master and own.
However he doesnt seem to think you need to load it much if you can get your athlethes lower body strength up with single leg variations.
To give some examples he showed some kids doing sets of +15reps of bulgarian split squats with +200pounds of weight along with a 300pound guy doing single leg squats.
He also had some dude banging out reps of 315 on single leg deadlifts.

The reason he does all this is called bilateral defiency.
Basicly you are stronger on one leg compared to two if you add it up.
So most his guys could easily do alot more than half their front squat on single leg versions.
What this says is that in alot of cases its the lower back holding your lower body strength back.
For bilateral strength and power he uses trap bar deads and olympic lifts.

Now before anyone getting butthurt i think you should just accept that this is just another way to train.
Bilateral squatting will always be the simplest way to get big and strong.
However i think its really cool when smart people find ways for people who are too jacked up to get under the bar to find other options.

He has, however, never made a decent case for the "risk" of squats, nor for why some of the exercises he selects as "safer" display much greater strain/shearing force on the knee joint.

 

[SexyMahnaz]

Horses for courses. Dodgy lower back? Work on rehabilitation while loading the legs the best you can while taking pressure off the back.

Bad knees? Load the legs the best you can while taking pressure off the knee

Perfect balanced specimen with no weakness? Just load in the most effective way possible

 

[bowlie]

I cant believe so many people have a problem with someone preferring to take advice from a real life s&c coach than from the internet...