Squats: Are they REALLY necessary?

[vrain]

Obviously the barbell squat is a high end great-bang-for-the-buck exercise. But, I think the general perception is that if you don't squat...your training is not optimal, or it's incomplete.

But is this really the case...? I'm familiar with some programs (some of Pavel's stuff) that don't even include squats...and Pavel himself doesn't seem to hold the attitude that squats are mandatory...especially for more mobile tactical/type athletes. Ross Enamait's stuff doesn't include barbell squats either.

I just finished up a 9 week strength phase (Tactical Barbell: gladiator template) and didn't include barbell squats in my cluster. I went with a Pistol squats/ weighted pull-ups/bench cluster. Now I realize pistols are a form of squat, and I increased my pistols from 5 strict/leg to 18 in 9 weeks. But I didn't barbell squat once.

I've noticed no change in leg size or power....if anything my legs look more muscular and feel far sturdier, but of course that could probably just be a result of completing the 9week template with the pistols. I might've had that much better results with barbell squats who knows. I can't say it's affected my roadwork, one way or another vs barbell squats. If anything roadwork and conditioning sessions seem easier. One major positive....I do seem to have more energy overall during lifting sessions and weekly training. I guess pistols just aren't as draining as barbell squats.

One reason I ask is because I'm heading back to my boxing gym this week after a long time away. I'll be switching back to only lifting twice a week (TB:Fighter template - had excellent results with this last time). So I'm picking a new exercise cluster for the next 12 week strength phase....and wondering if I should include squats or not. I'll be spending a considerable amount of time doing cardio/conditioning/boxing drills, so any extra training energy during the week would be a major plus...as long as it's worth the trade-off of not squatting.

Anyone here NOT squat regularly? How has it really affected your overall fitness level and strength? Did your legs wither away? Any pros/cons? I'm particularly interested to hear from anyone that boxes or does MMA. Obviously this isn't a permanent thing, whether I decide to include squats or not, I can always change exercise clusters at the end of the strength phase and go back to squatting. I thought this would be an interesting discussion/food for thought...as it seems to be accepted that you MUST barbell squat or your training is 'wrong'.

 

[magick]

Nothing is necessary. You do what helps you achieve your goals...

Most people talk a lot about the bench/deadlift/squat because they're the lifts tested in powerlifting, same reason why the clean and jerk and the snatch are talked about a lot because they're the lifts tested in Olympic lifting.

 

[StevenCrowder]

You're on the right track.

For strength, a general squatting variation is necessary.

For 90% of beginners the squat should be advocated as it's the simplest to learn and easiest with which to track progress.

But front squats, KB squats, Bulgarian split squats or my particularly favorite, weighted single leg box squats will work provided you are still using them in a plan that take into account your goals and proper rep scheme etc.

 

[snakeybizz]

Overrated...eventually gonna get back pain, and sometimes heavy squats can detract technique training

Best thing i've done is remove heavy axial loading..although naturally I've lost a little bit of strength, whatever more technique training for me

 

[jrams]

Do whatever you want, there are no rules to lifting. If you are getting stronger doing pistol squats, keep doing pistol squats.

 

[T20o6]

nothing will build the quadriceps muscle like the squat.

 

[>>jonutarr>]

Deadlifts and front squats and a good combo, i don't do back squats anymore

 

[Jim Rockford]

name calling aside....I agree,that back squats are overrated,if it was for bench pressing,they'd be the most overrated.

 

[Jim Rockford]

name calling aside....I agree,that back squats are overrated,if it was for bench pressing,they'd be the most overrated.

that should be 'if it wasn't for bench pressing'............

Spoiler

my fighter bashing has me unable to edit my posts

 

[miaou]

Overrated...eventually gonna get back pain

Eventually, most people get back pain no matter what they do.

People get back pain from wrestling, jiujitsu, boxing, moving furniture, standing for long hours, of just from laying on the couch.

Proper squatting is one of those activities that can actually help strengthen your back.

 

[xilliun]

name calling aside....I agree,that back squats are overrated,if it was for bench pressing,they'd be the most overrated.

Please elaborate how they're overrated. Let me know how superior the leg press, or the smith machine squat is.

 

[vrain]

Overrated...eventually gonna get back pain, and sometimes heavy squats can detract technique training

Best thing i've done is remove heavy axial loading..although naturally I've lost a little bit of strength, whatever more technique training for me

Interesting. So how long have you been training without squats? And when you say you lost a bit of strength...do you mean in the squat itself, other lifts, punching power? Or do you notice it in day to day activity?

 

[KnightTemplar]

The 10 Commandments of Squatr, Norse God of Squatting.

1)Thou Shalt Squat.

2)Thou Shalt Not Squat in a Shirley Machine.

3)Thou Shalt Not use a Pussy Pad, for this is an Abomination in the eyes of Squatr.

4)Thou Shalt honour the Squatrday and keep it Holy.

5)Thou Shalt Not Curl in the Squat Rack.

6)Thou Shalt Not Squat above the Holy Parallel.

7)Thou Shalt Not substitute Leg Press for Squats, for this is Gay in the eyes of Squatr.

8)Thou Shalt Man The Fuck Up when thou hast DOMS.

9)Women and CrossFitters run. Thou Shalt Sprint Hills or Push a Prowler. Even thy Cardio shalt be Manly.

10)Thou Shalt not take Wendler's name in vain.

 

[raptorjesus29]

Technically speaking, nothing is necessary. It is also not necessary to be strong. If you want to be strong, you have to squat. Dan knows what he is talking about.

 

[vrain]

Nothing is necessary. You do what helps you achieve your goals...

Most people talk a lot about the bench/deadlift/squat because they're the lifts tested in powerlifting, same reason why the clean and jerk and the snatch are talked about a lot because they're the lifts tested in Olympic lifting.

Agreed on it being goal dependant.

 

[vrain]

Technically speaking, nothing is necessary. It is also not necessary to be strong. If you want to be strong, you have to squat. Dan knows what he is talking about.

He may be right or he may be wrong. But I have no interest in being attacked internetz tuff guy style for discussing a topic.

And again. I didn't say pistols were better than barbell squats. That wasn't my post.

Maybe I should emphasize a little more....from the pov of a boxer, or someone that does MMA, Muay Thai, what have you....are you better off trading in the benefits of heavy squatting and using that effort and energy for more conditioning/skills training during the week. What got me thinking about this was Ross Enamait's II 50 day program. No barbell squats. Occasional variations of pistols and stuff.

Ross is a pretty fit guy and I'll go out on a limb and guess he's pretty strong as well, however you'd like to define that.

Looking for different perspectives from guys that have tried it, that's all. And thanks to those of you who've given your input.

 

[snakeybizz]

Interesting. So how long have you been training without squats? And when you say you lost a bit of strength...do you mean in the squat itself, other lifts, punching power? Or do you notice it in day to day activity?

slipped a disc and dropped them completely for about 6 months now

I just leg press, leg curl, leg extension...I still axially load with the military press but its different to axial load with a 80kg mil press then a 160kg+ squat

I have noticed no difference in full body explosiveness or leg strength in my grappling, if anything I feel more recovered in my technique training now then I ever have. So yeah I've lost strength in the squat and nothing else

 

[snakeybizz]

are you better off trading in the benefits of heavy squatting and using that effort and energy for more conditioning/skills training during the week. .

imo based on my own experience yes

 

[raptorjesus29]

He may be right or he may be wrong. But I have no interest in being attacked internetz tuff guy style for discussing a topic.

I am not attacking you. But he is right.

Maybe I should emphasize a little more....from the pov of a boxer, or someone that does MMA, Muay Thai, what have you....are you better off trading in the benefits of heavy squatting and using that effort and energy for more conditioning/skills training during the week.

If you cant spare two hours a week to train with weights, then why are you doing anything with the time you have to train besides skill training?

 

[lts5025]

He may be right or he may be wrong. But I have no interest in being attacked internetz tuff guy style for discussing a topic.

And again. I didn't say pistols were better than barbell squats. That wasn't my post.

Maybe I should emphasize a little more....from the pov of a boxer, or someone that does MMA, Muay Thai, what have you....are you better off trading in the benefits of heavy squatting and using that effort and energy for more conditioning/skills training during the week. What got me thinking about this was Ross Enamait's II 50 day program. No barbell squats. Occasional variations of pistols and stuff.

Ross is a pretty fit guy and I'll go out on a limb and guess he's pretty strong as well, however you'd like to define that.

Looking for different perspectives from guys that have tried it, that's all. And thanks to those of you who've given your input.

Why pick on squats? Anything you do in the gym is going to take away from conditioning/technique training. Sure, squats are the cornerstone of SS/SL/Wendler/Starr, whatever and taking out squats that you do 3x a week would free up more time than taking out OHP or deadlifts or another lift you only do 1 or 2x a week, but then you have to ask yourself why you're doing squats 3x a week to begin with.