Squat article/discussion

Discussion in 'Strength & Conditioning Discussion' started by Catholic Clown, Dec 18, 2012.

  1. Catholic Clown

    Catholic Clown White Belt

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  2. Henry Huggins

    Henry Huggins Green Belt

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    great article. thanks
     
  3. gspieler

    gspieler Silver Belt

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    Interesting read. Good to see a variety of opinions from kinesiology/physiology professionals. I tend to agree with the opinion that the squat should generally descend to the point of lumbar-flexion and butt-wink. I do, however, disagree with most that I think the partial-squat can have a place in sport-specific training if programmed in right. Its analogous to doing rack pulls as part of a DL progression IMO.
     
  4. DrBdan

    DrBdan Something clever

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    I didn't read the entire article but I pretty much agree with Layne Norton.
     
  5. miaou

    miaou barely keeping it together

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    Terrible analogy is terrible.
     
  6. TeddyRoosevelt

    TeddyRoosevelt Brown Belt

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    I am not sure exactly what you are trying to say, but I would say rack pulls can be very useful if you lack lockout strength.
     
  7. CRZA

    CRZA Purple Belt

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    I think Jamie Lewis (elite pl'er) is a fan of partial squats, allthough he is pretty crazy in his head and just like lifting the heaviest way possible
     
  8. gspieler

    gspieler Silver Belt

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    Care to elaborate? Partial DL is to DL = Partial Squat is to Squat. Theyre completely analogous, whether or not one is more effective than the other or one tends to be more injury-conducive.
     
  9. miaou

    miaou barely keeping it together

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    First off, a partial DL can be very helpful to getting your DL numbers up, if used correctly/when appropriate.

    Second off, sport-specific training means using some sort of squat to improve your performance in your sport. I don't see how doing partial squats to improve performance in, say, volleyball is at all analogous to doing partial DLs to improve your DL numbers.
     
  10. Tosa

    Tosa Red Belt

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    Miaou's right in that it's not a very good analogy.

    But it works in that both are something to be approached judiciously. With rack pulls, someone has to consider first, are they having trouble at that point because of technical issues that arise earlier in the lift? And is this something that could be better trained with bands or chains? And if partial pulls are being used, actually using a reasonable ROM, weight that allows actual work to be done, and isn't just about loading up the bar, and making sure that the higher starting point doesn't change that part of the lift.

    Perhaps you can tell I don't think rack-pulls should be a staple exercise for a great may people?

    Similarly, there are certain cases where partial squats might be beneficial for someone participating in a specific sport. If they are used, it'd be after a considerable amount of work developing a strength base, including plenty of full squatting. And as training progressed, some squats, depending on where in the training cycle someone was, could be partial squats. And it wouldn't be an excuse to overload the movement, but almost certainly be explosive work done with lighter weights.

    And that's if there aren't even more specific exercises to fill the sports specific role of partial squats. In which case all squats would be full, and done for developing GPP/strength base. Also considering that something that might appear to be like a partial squat, say, jumping, may be a fairly different movement - partial squats put more emphasis on the quads, where as jumping, and many other "athletic" movements are powered more by the glutes and hamstrings. So even if the ROM seems similar, it doesn't mean the muscle involvement is.
     
  11. JauntyAngle

    JauntyAngle International man of mystery

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    You know who else does partial squats?

    Dr. Rhadi Ferguson.

    National judo champion, BJJ blackbelt, [email protected] guy and vulgar flaunter of the fact that he holds a PhD in something... and look what we did to him. It was not pretty.

    Happy days.
     
  12. Smeaglebutcrack**

    Smeaglebutcrack** Banned Banned

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    Partial squats and squat depth variations are in fact very effective as both muscle builders and strength builders when used correctly and under a right training program.

    For example squats that go only half way to parallel can be very good at building muscular endurance and strength when combined with squats that go beyond parallel but only go half way up.
     
  13. belph

    belph Pissing into the wind.

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    I'm going to search for that thread. Then I'll grab a monster and get all nostalgic and shit.
     
  14. JauntyAngle

    JauntyAngle International man of mystery

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    Post up a link when you find it. I'll crack open a few Angkor or Cambodia beers and do the same.
     
  15. JauntyAngle

    JauntyAngle International man of mystery

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    Yeah. But what do you do when you reach half way up. Die? Give up lifting?
     
  16. Obscure Terror

    Obscure Terror ................................. Platinum Member

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    Sources?

    I think that while board presses and rack pulls for deadlifts have been useful for trainees(not everyone) the squat doesn't work in the same way. If you're weak at the bottom, do pause squats or squat off the pins. Not many people fail the squat halfway up, because half squatting is easier than full squatting and allows heavier weights to be used(look in any gym for proof), so why train that area of the lift?
     
  17. miaou

    miaou barely keeping it together

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    This is not exactly what that poster is saying, but this study is somewhat relevant:

    The influence of variable range of motion training on neuromuscular performance and control of external loads. (2011)

     
  18. redaxe

    redaxe Silver Belt

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    Same thing you do for partial deadlifts where you go all the way up but you only go halfway back down. Obviously.
     
  19. Obscure Terror

    Obscure Terror ................................. Platinum Member

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    Good article, backs up what I was saying nicely as it's based on the bench press. As I said, board pressing for bench has direct effect on bench press performance. But the squat is a different animal.
     
  20. gspieler

    gspieler Silver Belt

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    I'm gonna have to respectfully disagree on both counts.

    1-I believe partial-squatting can help improve your numbers in the full squat. It would enable to use heavier weights that may, in turn, cause a neuromuscular adaptation that would make the weights being used for a full squat at least seem lighter. It would also certainly help strengthen the lift through that particular ROM, meaning the lifter would be less likely to fail once he reached that phase of the lift; similar to a board press or rack pull. As a lift, it wouldnt be a big game-changer, but I wouldnt necessarily dismiss altogether.

    2-I would think, if anything, that a partial-squat is more "sport-specific" than a full one. Off the top of my head, seems most sports that involve triple-extension/jumping movements have a greater element of squatting down partially vs fully. Jumping up to grab a rebound, the position of a lineman prior to the snap, a baserunner anticipating stealing a base, etc. All involve descending down into a quarter-to-half squat and then exploding. I guess I always assumed that the reason this move is not held in favor in the athletic community is due more towards its tendency to create muscular imbalances(generally quad-dominance), decrease ROM in the joints, and the excessive stress on the patella it creates as opposed to a lack of sport-specificity.

    All-in-all I'm not a big advocate of this move. I think the assets from including it in a S&C routine would rarely surpass it possible detriments, most notably increasing risk of injury. That said, I do believe that if it is programmed right, i.e. programmed alongside full squats, RDL's, or the like, it can have a valuable place. But it does more-or-less equate rack pulls in terms of ability to increase numbers in the primary lift and/or sport-specificity IMO.
     

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