Elections How do Trump supporters reconcile most of his cabinet not supporting his second term as president?

[terrapin]

An old Turkish proverb says that “When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a sultan. The palace becomes a circus.”


The trump followers want a circus and refuse to accept consequences.

That is wisdom right there.

 

[PhitePhan]

No- you still don't understand what that means.

If people around him are saying he's an asshole, not fit to serve, a bully, they are describing a situation with a person in power who lacks the temperament and wisdom to hold that position. These are valid criticisms.

So when people say mean things about Trump it’s a “valid criticism” (even though they are generally little more than petty insults) but when I say mean things about them it’s ad-hominem… got it.

To be honest, when a shit-stain like John Bolton doesn’t like Trump, it makes me wonder what Trump is doing right.

An ad hominem is when a person makes an argument and the person gets criticized and/or attacked by someone else without actually addressing the argument. You know, what you've been doing in this thread.

Who did I attack or criticize (besides Bolton just above)?

What argument am I supposed to address, that certain people don’t like Trump and insult him?

 

[terrapin]

Because we're sick of deomcrats turning a blind eye and supporting illegal border crossing criminals. Harris is only in her position because she's "black" and was a whore, and women should be ashamed if she's the first female president.

Wow..... basket of deplorable's?

 

[Octavian]

Because Trump was a DC outsider that ultimately relied on establishment GOP(neocons) to craft his administration when he won because he quite frankly didn’t know enough people he could trust in DC. So he was at the mercy of the advice of former Bush acolytes.

Many of those were opposed to his economic nationalist and non-interventionist agenda from the campaign. He also kept a lot of staff holdovers from the Obama admin, which is very rare as new Presidents typically clean house. Trump figured they would do their jobs faithfully because that’s what low level employees do in the business world. He was wrong.

Bannon sounded the alarm from the get-go that these neocons would work to sabotage the agenda people voted for. This was the struggle that eventually led to Bannon’s removal. Kushner wanted Trump to stick with the neocons because his interest rested solely with Israel. Trump listened to Kushner. Fired Bannon. Bannon was right though.

One of the downsides of not being a DC insider is you don’t know how to navigate Washington for allies. The upside is that people know your interests are disconnected from DC and DC interests have nothing to do with Americans.

Trump finally admits now that he hired very poorly in his first term. The good news now is there is a more clear MAGA movement in DC and in states throughout the country for Trump to craft his next administration on.

That whole Project 2025 thing democrats fear monger about is merely Heritage helpfully making an outline for Trump to hire allies and get rid of holdovers this time. Which is pretty much what every President does but Trump didn’t at the beginning.

One can chalk that up to Trump possibly not expecting victory in 2016 but it’s all the same whether he did or not. He still put his trust in the wrong people based on a letter. Not by where they stood on the centerpieces of his platform.

It’s also Trump was a one man movement in 2016. MAGA didn’t have anybody else running g for office in 2016..it ran concurrently with the last gasp of the Tea Party movement which is mostly opposed to Trump on major issues in his platform.,so all the Republicans that joined him in Washington were of a more open borders, war machine, hyper internationalist capitalism bent.

So the ex-staff that don’t support Trump likely never did but a high level job is a high level job..many of them turned to democrats so their careers or media appearance can continue after Trump. Especially since the threat communicated through media is that anybody who worked for Trump is “tainted”. So obviously people who live and work in DC feel compelled to make nice. Especially if they personally believe Trump won’t win again.

We’ll see what they say when he does.

I stopped at neocons and skimmed the rest. Trump surrounded himself with people of his choosing - which were mostly sycofants, people lusting for a piece of power, family and true MAGA nuts like Bannon. And yeah - Bannon sounded the alarm so hard Trump fired him. Trump has only Trump to blame for putting the people he put in charge. Give us a break…it’s just such lazy reasoning. I have no doubt what you wrote is the type of wild, delusional, revisionist history that’s being traded around on Stormfront.

 

[mixmastermo]

So when people say mean things about Trump it’s a “valid criticism” (even though they are generally little more than petty insults) but when I say mean things about them it’s ad-hominem… got it.

To be honest, when a shit-stain like John Bolton doesn’t like Trump, it makes me wonder what Trump is doing right.


Who did I attack or criticize (besides Bolton just above)?

What argument am I supposed to address, that certain people don’t like Trump and insult him?

Ok so this will be the last time I lay it out.

Let's take something John Bolton said- I directly quoted this

10. His third national security adviser, John Bolton: “I believe (foreign leaders) think he is a laughing fool.”

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/03/politics/donald-trump-former-allies-what-matters/index.html

That is not an insult- it is a statement. A statement someone would find offensive, sure, but a statement nonetheless.

Your response is

To be honest, when a shit-stain like John Bolton doesn’t like Trump, it makes me wonder what Trump is doing right.

See, you're not addressing what John Bolton said, you're attacking John Bolton

Earlier someone attacked Mike Pence- this is specifically what Pence said

1. His vice president, Mike Pence: “The American people deserve to know that President Trump asked me to put him over my oath to the Constitution. … Anyone who puts himself over the Constitution should never be president of the United States.”

Again, never addressed what Pence actually said, just said that his opinion should not be trusted.

This is not much different than me at a train station and wondering out loud what train I should get on to get to my destination, then Leonardo Di Caprio comes over and tell me to get on the 2 train in 5 minutes and instead of thanking him or confirming that will take me to my specific destination, I call him a womanizing asshole then ask someone else which train I should take.

here's your original response on the topic

What do these multiple people see as good/not a disaster?

Are these multiple people the same folks who support forever wars and gay conversion therapy? If you don’t respect these multiple people in first place, why would you take stock in what they say about Trump?

 

[badascan]

Maybe they were used to the pay to play, quid pro quo schemes as the usual modus operandi of DC and doing so while Trump was at the helm was stressful for them?

 

[TadDunbar]

Yikes, Im seeing how the January Sixers are going to view Harris presidency already.

Jan 6. So scary.

 

[PhitePhan]

Ok so this will be the last time I lay it out.

Let's take something John Bolton said- I directly quoted this

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/03/politics/donald-trump-former-allies-what-matters/index.html

That is not an insult- it is a statement. A statement someone would find offensive, sure, but a statement nonetheless.

Your response is


See, you're not addressing what John Bolton said, you're attacking John Bolton

What in the world am I supposed to address regarding Bolton’s totally-not-an-insult “statement?”

And you guys in this thread are propping up the opinion of a total warhawk, why should anyone take stock in what this man says about foreign policy?

 

[mixmastermo]

What in the world am I supposed to address regarding Bolton’s totally-not-an-insult “statement?”

And you guys in this thread are propping up the opinion of a total warhawk, why should anyone take stock in what this man says about foreign policy?

Alright dude, you don't get it. You're only furthering my point. I suggest you look into it a bit more. Take care.

 

[fingercuffs]

They haven't been taken to the train station at least yet.

 

[emefer]

Which one/s do you respect?



They DO have the same theme, namely that he’s an asshole/bully/“not fit to serve” … basically ad-hominem (right @mixmastermo)?

If all the members of the Church of Scientology hate someone, is that meaningful to you?

Believe it or not, I’m NOT a Trump fan and I would prefer if he were never president and I haven’t and won’t vote for him. He’s a blowhard narcissist who can’t shut up even to benefit himself.

I’m just not willing to use fallacious reasoning/arguments to bash him when it suits me.

This is a more correct analogy
If a bunch of former members of the church of Scientology left and came out against the church leader would it be meaningful to you?

 

[emefer]

Are the seven deadly sins from the Bible?

No. There are ten and they are the commandments. Trumps broken pretty much all but 1

 

[emefer]

Because we're sick of deomcrats turning a blind eye and supporting illegal border crossing criminals. Harris is only in her position because she's "black" and was a whore, and women should be ashamed if she's the first female president.

Incel alert

 

[PhitePhan]

Alright dude, you don't get it. You're only furthering my point. I suggest you look into it a bit more. Take care.

TBF, it would be a lot easier to “get it” if you presented a coherent argument.

 

[PhitePhan]

This is a more correct analogy
If a bunch of former members of the church of Scientology left and came out against the church leader would it be meaningful to you?

Are these church members verifiable pieces of shit? Are they offering more than unverified opinions?

 

[Jack V Savage]

Are these church members verifiable pieces of shit? Are they offering more than unverified opinions?

Probably a lot of them are. Has Trump ever hired anyone to work closely with him who wasn't at least morally questionable? It's like a mob boss. Anyone who turns on him had to work with him, and anyone who works with him is a sleaze. That's especially true if you consider holding Republican positions on issues to qualify you as a POS (fair, I guess, but Trump also counts then).

 

[emefer]

Are these church members verifiable pieces of shit? Are they offering more than unverified opinions?

I don’t know but the point is that it’s a better analogy than the one you made.
Here’s another.
If you own a company and are looking to hire someone, does it mean anything if one of the applicants former employers said they wouldn’t hire him back and he didn’t know what he was doing or would you disregard them because they all said the same thing about the applicant?

 

[iwannabeadored]

It’s all in my post. There is a wider movement and network of connections for him to build his administration from this time. In DC and throughout the country. The neoconservatives were still the establishment then but are fringe minorities now and powerless.

They’re doing their last available political job of making “the conservative case for leftism” before they go completely extinct.

It all starts with who he hires to direct the transition.
If it’s somebody like Reince Priebus. Expect more dogshit hires. I have a hard time seeing that happening with how beleaguered Bush conservatives are in the GOP and to Trump now.


You can troll him for “I hire the best people” all you want. That is fair. He hired Christopher Wray at the direction of Neocons.

As Trump now admits that he didn’t and acknowledges the reasons why..which is in line with my post and I have said it for years.

Trump doesn’t admit he’s wrong often. So if he has come to terms with the fact that his hiring was dogshit and knows why it was dogshit..then I expect he’ll out his trust in the right people.

We’ll find out around mid November if the hiring will get better or not this time

I think you

No one that knows Donald Trump personally and/or worked with him professionally has a valid opinion on his character- only random people on a karate forum that have probably never been within 1,000 feet of him can be trusted.

That’s the point…. People working for him professionally that HE hired said he’s not fit. .

When we talk about facts not feelings, his coworkers are the ones we should listen to right?

 

[iwannabeadored]

Which one/s do you respect?



They DO have the same theme, namely that he’s an asshole/bully/“not fit to serve” … basically ad-hominem (right @mixmastermo)?

If all the members of the Church of Scientology hate someone, is that meaningful to you?

That’s not ad hominem… they are describing his temperament, his ability to lead… his chief of staff said they had to shorten meetings because he had no attention span. He didn’t understand basic concepts. He was focused only on media… this isn’t ad hominem this is criticism of his leadership

Believe it or not, I’m NOT a Trump fan and I would prefer if he were never president and I haven’t and won’t vote for him. He’s a blowhard narcissist who can’t shut up even to benefit himself.

I’m just not willing to use fallacious reasoning/arguments to bash him when it suits me.

 

[iwannabeadored]

So when people say mean things about Trump it’s a “valid criticism” (even though they are generally little more than petty insults) but when I say mean things about them it’s ad-hominem… got it.

To be honest, when a shit-stain like John Bolton doesn’t like Trump, it makes me wonder what Trump is doing right.


Who did I attack or criticize (besides Bolton just above)?

What argument am I supposed to address, that certain people don’t like Trump and insult him?

No he’s right you don’t understand what ad hominem means.



When 20 people in key positions in your staff say you don’t have the ability to lead and give clear examples of why ..

If a leader of the free world refuses to sit in meetings because they are too long ?