Sport Jiu-Jitsu in a street fight, Its not all the same!

[peregrine]

the 3 things we are fighting about

MMA-

-great for practicing with actual strikes, combination of the arts,
practices clinching and controls to defend against striking


-not really as technical at jiujitsu as str8 up jiujitsu classes
-in street there are no timed rounds,refs or illegal moves( headbutts,fishooks)

SPORT BJJ

- technical jiu jitsu
- great competition experience
- can work on street

- almost 0 focus on striking opportunities doesnt manage striking ranges
- too many gi dependant non street applicable techniques

Gracie Jiu Jitsu

-primary focus self defence , managing distance from strikes
- series of moves an untrained attacker would do and counters to each
- training but always being aware of striking opportunities



MMA is great just not as technical at jiu jitsu AS jiu jitsu classes, sport jiu jitsu is great but not as street smart as GJJ, GJJ is technical but also street smart. once you have GJJ in your toolbox then i think its fine to train sport with a small portion of GJJ to keep things sharp. imo being a purple belt or higher in jiu jitsu without learning the defensive part of it is a mistake.

^Why do you keep writing GJJ?
GJJ has it's strengths and weaknesses.
Why wouldn't you train bjj with self defense in mind first? Considering the first thing animals learn is often reverted back to under stress. This will force bjj practitioners who do this to look at bjj through the lens of fighting techniques, then doing drills like in the video will enhance and cement those skills in 1to2x a month. That drill will make peoples bjj much more effective for situations with punches. (If you) Adapt it to situations with other variables like attempts at power bombs, hidden weapons, improv weapons, 3rd parties, etc you can build a style that accounts for more realistic scenarios than pure sport bjj. I'm not saying don't practice sport bjj, what I'm saying is this stuff could be done for 1to2 rds 1x a week and you will increase your street defense multi fold.

I do believe many intermediate practitioners would make short work of most untrained thugs. The issue is the lucky ko strike, and athletic variables.

 

[peregrine]

Most bjj people look at bjj through one lens...sport bjj.

 

[lechien]

And I don't know where people get this idea Gracie gyms don't spar and enter tournaments.... Their belts are actually better than equivalent at many other gyms.
.

How do you come to that conclusion?

by their amount of wins in tournaments?

 

[jack36767]

what are the chances of that? haha. yea sure, he MAY get beat up in the ridiculously off chance that he's an ex wrestler. but in a wayyyy more realistic scenario the dude he's fighting is just some jackass who's had to much to drink and thinks his biceps are going to win him a fight in teh streetz

I have seen and been around numerous altercations where someone, 2 of which did self defense jiu-jitsu get FUCKED UP by former high school, college wrestlers and ex-military guys. When you get outside of suburbia and get into lower income neighborhoods. (Whether the inner-city, trailer park, or just suburbs going to seed) you're much likelier to encounter more people with real training and/or just mean mother fuckers who like hurting people. Most of the people commenting on this forum have never been around truly dangerous people who would not hesitate to truly physically hurt someone. I am not saying I'm a badass or one of those people, but growing up in those kind of environments around those kind of people have taught me that situational awareness and any training you do has to be under the assumption your opponent has a general idea of what they're doing. Otherwise you can be the 150 lb GJJ purple belt I saw get knocked out with a jab by a former D1 200 lb college wrestler. The GJJ guy assumed the wrestler was just a frat guy with show muscles.

Oh wait he didn't properly use the Helio Leverage and you should base your self-defense on the assumption your opponent won't know what he's doing because that's how it was during the challenge match era

 

[imarayda]

More focus on self defense=I get chocked out by 15 year olds who aren't too stubborn to learn new techniques.

 

[Veiled Threat]

Why wouldn't you train bjj with self defense in mind first?

are you serious? there is a huge pussyload of people training in bjj that don't want to learn how to fight and have mastered how to live their life so they never ever have even a 1% chance of confrontation

come on now

 

[JohnSouth]

are you serious? there is a huge pussyload of people training in bjj that don't want to learn how to fight and have mastered how to live their life so they never ever have even a 1% chance of confrontation

come on now

Translation: privileged background.

Put that same white person in Baltimore.

Good luck not having a confrontation.

 

[JohnSouth]

How do you come to that conclusion?

by their amount of wins in tournaments?

I have seen them win gold medals in local tournaments, against well known sport bjj gyms.

I also went to every gym in my area and trained with their guys, the Gracie places really surprised me. I thought I was going to run right over them, the opposite happened.

They are definitely competitive with the other gyms despite not training very hard.

I'd attribute that to superior technique.

 

[jack36767]

I have seen them win gold medals in local tournaments, against well known sport bjj gyms.

I also went to every gym in my area and trained with their guys, the Gracie places really surprised me. I thought I was going to run right over them, the opposite happened.

They are definitely competitive with the other gyms despite not training very hard.

I'd attribute that to superior technique.

I thought your quote said earlier something about GJJ will work on an untrained opponent but IDK if you since then edited it. I'll still address this issue again. I said again earlier that I have been in or seen too many altercations where someone involved knew what they were doing whether it was because they wrestled, did some bjj, trained MMA, formerly/currently military, and/or just mean mother fuckers who knew how to fight and more importantly were willing to hurt someone in cold blood. Because I too, just like you, in fact. Grew up in and around low income shitty neighborhoods and based on the above described life experiences. Any self-defense art that is predicated on beating untrained opponents is bullshit to me. This isn't the fucking 1990's where no one knew what the fuck bjj was...

 

[lechien]

I'd attribute that to superior technique.

Why does it not happen at the higher level of competition?

Is the superior technique only applies to your local Gracie places in your area?

 

[JohnSouth]

Why does it not happen at the higher level of competition?

Is the superior technique only applies to your local Gracie places in your area?

Because those guys train like athletes and these guys are hobbyists doing well against competitors in academies that you would recognize by name instantly if I dropped them. Not bad.

At some point you have to do that if your goal is to be a competitor because the focus is not on competition, guys don't drill hard, it's hard to get many rounds in, they don't have 2 classes a day etc. but they do teach really solid technique and new guys get good surprisingly fast.

For instance in Galvao vs Ryron Gracie, I'm 99% sure my professor would have tapped Ryron in those positions in a few seconds. Galvao had no idea what to do, it was painful and Ryron's defense DID have holes that I could see. He simply wasn't doing anything that would lead to a submission. And as flawed as Ryon's defense was, it was better than 99% of people out there.

But Relson was undefeated in Brazil for 22 years, you really think he doesn't know shit? He's 100 years old and he could still beat everyone on this thread.

From the above, it is obvious they can get you good enough to handle self defense and get to a good level in sport JJ which is plenty.

 

[Badabing1234]

Where do you live?

I don't think you understand the level of BJJ in the major leagues (i.e. California and the East Coast)

And I can't believe what you just said about Galvao and Ryron lol. Who is your instructor? What is his competition record?

What belt are you?

Because those guys train like athletes and these guys are hobbyists doing well against competitors in academies that you would recognize by name instantly if I dropped them. Not bad.

At some point you have to do that if your goal is to be a competitor because the focus is not on competition, guys don't drill hard, it's hard to get many rounds in, they don't have 2 classes a day etc. but they do teach really solid technique and new guys get good surprisingly fast.

For instance in Galvao vs Ryron Gracie, I'm 99% sure my professor would have tapped Ryron in those positions in a few seconds. Galvao had no idea what to do, it was painful and Ryron's defense DID have holes that I could see. He simply wasn't doing anything that would lead to a submission. And as flawed as Ryon's defense was, it was better than 99% of people out there.

But Relson was undefeated in Brazil for 22 years, you really think he doesn't know shit? He's 100 years old and he could still beat everyone on this thread.

From the above, it is obvious they can get you good enough to handle self defense and get to a good level in sport JJ which is plenty.

 

[JohnSouth]

Where do you live?

I don't think you understand the level of BJJ in the major leagues (i.e. California and the East Coast)

And I can't believe what you just said about Galvao and Ryron lol. Who is your instructor? What is his competition record?

What belt are you?

Don't bother asking me personal questions or anything remotely in that area.

And since this is about street fighting not the competition scene, I'm merely sharing my reasoning that their students are competitive at the local level with the bigger academies with famous black belts. That's plenty.

Ryron's arm was hanging out there for everyone to see and Galvao ignored it in favor of some kind of lapel trap that he couldn't do anything with. In north/south he had the arm completely out of position but he just held onto his belt stalling, I didn't believe it.

Don't get me wrong, his takedown, guard pass, game and everything was top notch but he had no idea what he was doing with the submission. Ryron left a few openings, he simply didn't attempt anything.

I'm simply saying this is one area where the Gracies have it all over everyone else: submission offense and defense.

My guess is submissions aren't as important at the higher levels, everything is decided on a guard pass or an advantage.

 

[Badabing1234]

Just wanted to get an idea of the level of BJJ wherever you are. Its hard to understand how high level these top guys are if you never rolled/trained/competed against them or their students.

LOL at saying that Galvao don't know submissions. Just LOL.

Don't bother asking me personal questions or anything remotely in that area.

And since this is about street fighting not the competition scene, I'm sharing my experiences. Like I said you'd know these very famous places if I named them so yes I do know.

Ryron's arm was hanging out there for everyone to see and Galvao ignored it in favor of some kind of lapel whatever.

Don't get me wrong, his takedown, guard pass, game and everything was top notch but he had no idea what he was doing with the submission.

 

[AgonyandIrony]

Where do you live?

I don't think you understand the level of BJJ in the major leagues (i.e. California and the East Coast)

And I can't believe what you just said about Galvao and Ryron lol. Who is your instructor? What is his competition record?

What belt are you?

He lives in the woods according to him. Don't bother, he's fucking clown shoes. Said he only took three Judo classes or something and he's unthrowable. Everything that comes out of his mouth is disrespect.

 

[JohnSouth]

Just wanted to get an idea of the level of BJJ wherever you are. Its hard to understand how high level these top guys are if you never rolled/trained/competed against them or their students.

LOL at saying that Galvao don't know submissions. Just LOL.

It doesn't really matter.

If he knows submissions so well then why didn't he get the submission when it was on a silver platter? My teacher would tear me a new one if I left it out like that.

His opponent was a Gracie and he couldn't get the sub. Wow. just wow. lol

 

[JohnSouth]

He lives in the woods according to him. Don't bother, he's fucking clown shoes. Said he only took three Judo classes or something and he's unthrowable. Everything that comes out of his mouth is disrespect.

Wrong, you managed to lie about everything.

You clowns would be more credible if you'd actually trained GJJ. I'm getting a little sick of hearing the same old lies about how there's no rolling.

The said part is if Rener was here you'd be kissing his butt.

 

[AgonyandIrony]

Wrong, you managed to lie about everything.

You clowns would be more credible if you'd actually trained GJJ. I'm getting a little sick of hearing the same old lies about how there's no rolling.

The said part is if Rener was here you'd be kissing his butt.

You're getting sick of something is funny considering just about everyone is sick of your posting.

So..what Barra affiliate do you train out of? Or are you doing the old Gracie DVD training?

 

[JohnSouth]

You're getting sick of something is funny considering just about everyone is sick of your posting.

So..what Barra affiliate do you train out of? Or are you doing the old Gracie DVD training?

Neither.

When all else fails attack the messenger, I'm not telling you squat about me and this isn't about me.

There's plenty of rolling for self defense or the street. I know because I train GJJ in an academy with a black belt.

If you find that too hard to believe I can't help you.

 

[AgonyandIrony]

Neither.

When all else fails attack the messenger, I'm not telling you squat about me and this isn't about me.

There's plenty of rolling for self defense or the street. I know because I train GJJ.

If you find that too hard to believe I can't help you.

So which Gracie do you train under. Weird... I don't know of any high level impressive Gracies practicing in the rural south.