Social Spanish left + Muslims seek to turn the Cathedral of Cordoba into Mosque , along with being a church

[irish_thug]

Hold a Black Metal concert there. Problem solved.

 

[Orgasmo]

I'm a liberal, the classical kind. That pretty much makes me a racist alt-right in the eyes of today's "progressive" liberal SJWs. I'm of the opinion that Abrahamic religions are a plague upon this earth in practice, with Islam being the worse of them all. While Christianity and Judaism have mostly softened and evolved, Islam remains to be as barbaric as it was in the Middle Ages.

Anyone worshipping a genocidal pedophile as the perfect human being should automatically be disqualified from immigration to the West.

 

[Blowing Dixie]

Sounds like the inquisition failed. Perhaps it's best to try it again.

 

[LEGS MAHONEY]

In before the but muslims weren't as bad as christians back then

 

[Bald1]

I'm a liberal, the classical kind. That pretty much makes me a racist alt-right in the eyes of today's "progressive" liberal SJWs. I'm of the opinion that Abrahamic religions are a plague upon this earth in practice, with Islam being the worse of them all. While Christianity and Judaism have mostly softened and evolved, Islam remains to be as barbaric as it was in the Middle Ages.

Anyone worshipping a genocidal pedophile as the perfect human being should automatically be disqualified from immigration to the West.

I have been informed that these are all canned anti-Islam talking points and therefore irrelevant. Welcome to being an "ist".

 

[ElKarlo]

This century will see the end of liberalism forever.


Ban


Many populations did convert to Islam though.

Many dis concert. But most followed the model of conquest and then slow conversion

 

[ElKarlo]

I think Christianity is better and it's harmless nowadays while Islam is still violent but it was also spread by force.
It's true it started as an underground religion that was persecuted while Islam very quickly was on the offensive (Muhammad was persecuted in Mecca for a while), so there is some aspect of tolerance but after a while it became very aggressive. I also understand that their feud with the muslims was defensive, Muslims invaded Christian lands and Christians fought back.
However, after European kings became Christian they persecuted pagans. Charlemagne basically said you either convert to Christianity or I kill you. In Latin America the Spanish burned all the Mayan religious books, killed their priests and again said convert or die. With slaves they didn't even ask, they just said you're now a Christian and if you worship your African gods we kill you, then Africans celebrated cults with Catholic saints representing African deities to hide it. That's how Afro-Brazilian religions started.
I'm not condemning it, that's how things worked at the time. If you let a bunch of muslims in an European country they would act as a fifth column and if the spanish didn't erase mesoamerican religions and languages they would have a much harder time ruling there.

Very true, yes there was the spreading of Christianity by the sword, but much if it came by organic growth. While Islam conquered say Iran, and the people would revolt until the muslims had a majority.
The Christian rulers also got hard lined after they experienced invasions from Islamic powers.
The Spanish were transformed by constant fighting with the Muslim moors. Once their enemy was gone, they suddenly had tons of soldiers with nothing to do. They were unleashed on the new world.

 

[oldshadow]

If the courts force this I hope he Christians burn the place to the ground as they leave.

 

[ElKarlo]

OMG children stay that fuck away from that thing....9 year olds...

I know people who've served in Afghanistan and or Iraq. They all have stories of butt rape. It's like prison. You use it to show you have power, or sell it for favors. It's disgusting, and it shows when they have grooming gangs set up in the west.

 

[Orgasmo]

In before the but muslims weren't as bad as christians back then

To be fair, they were actually less batshit crazy during the Middle Ages. The problem is that they didn't move on from that point.

 

[JonesBones]

https://www.nationalreview.com/2017/07/cathedral-cordoba-belongs-catholic-church/

http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/spanish-cathedral-targeted-for-reversing-the-reconquista

I first became aware of this on a Lebanese forum, back in December. The actual article is from the National Review from 2017. And the NCRegister article is from 2017 also.


The Cathedral of Cordoba was the Grand Mosque of Cordoba, the later was converted to a Church when Christians kicked out the Muslim invaders. BUT.. the Mosque was built on the site of a Church , the Basilica of Saint Vincent, which was demolished by the Muslim rulers to build the Grand Mosque of Cordoba. Standard practice for Religious imperialists to destroy or convert the houses of worship of the people they conquer.

Here is where I wholeheartedly disagree with the left. The left is just supporting Islamic chauvinists / bullies because it's a case of the enemy-of-my-enemy-is-my-friend. The Church is perceived as historically supportive of Fascist Spanish politics, which they were. The problem I have is that Islam itself is fascist and espouses the kind of sentiments the Left opposed the Spanish fascists for. But intersectionism and wanting allies trumps principles for many. Same reason the Rightwing tends to support the Israeli right even though the later is no friend of Christians, and Israel has been detrimental to the US.

There is something else people should keep in mind with this story, it is that the Muslim elites and Spanish Muslims are pushing to conduct prayers inside the Cathedral. That is nothing but aggressive behavior , a big ole middle finger to Christians and attempt to re-impose their culture. So this isn't just a case of a few Muslims individuals making unreasonable demands and exposing their imperialistic tendencies. When the local government would not allow prayers be conducted inside, the ex President of the Cordoba based Islamic Council started conducting Friday prayers outside the church. Just a blatant symbol of cultural imperialism.

For Osama Bin Laden , Al Qaeda and Islamists the memory of Al Andalus is still a point of contention. As we see here this kind of cultural imperialistic mindset isn't just a fringe sympathy.

---

Muslims and Left leaning revisionists are trying to claim the Muslim period of rule was a tolerant period.

A questionable historical narrative informs a significant component of the Spanish Left’s case against the Church. The cathedral, or mosque-cathedral as it is sometimes called, represents “a universal paradigm of concord between cultures” according to the platform’s petition. When Spain was under Muslim control, interreligious harmony and tolerance supposedly reigned. Therefore, as a symbol of interreligious concord, the cathedral shouldn’t belong to any one religious body.

^^Which is bollocks.

Darío Fernández-Morera, an associate professor in the department of Spanish and Portuguese at Northwestern University, has argued that medieval Spain was not an interreligious paradise. In an interview with National Review, he deconstructed this largely fictionalized historical narrative, saying that “the life of a Christian was close to the value of the life of a Muslim woman, which in turn was about half the value of a Muslim man.”


According to Professor Fernández-Morera, if a Christian killed a Muslim, even in self-defense, the Christian had to be killed, but if a Muslim killed a Christian, even intentionally, the Muslim could not be killed. Moreover, Christians couldn’t testify against a Muslim in court because his testimony wouldn’t be valid. “There is simply no legal basis,” he said, “for the idea that this was a tolerant community.”

And Obama gets taken in by this disingenuous propaganda campaign. Or maybe he just said what he said for geo-political reasons and globalist ideals.
President Barack Obama hailed Córdoba’s “proud tradition of tolerance” in his infamous speech on Islam in Cairo in 2009, and similar claims were made by Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf when he worked to erect the mosque at Ground Zero in New York under the name of the “Córdoba House.”

Now you could argue that back then Islamic society was more tolerant than Christianity, which may or may not be true but that is not saying much at all. Christianity in Span being less tolerant does not mean Islam was not also highly intolerant.

Another problem with the left is they don't understand either power dynamics or symbolism, or the combination of the two. The Arab/Muslim world seems obsessed with power dynamics. The smallest gestures. Like years ago when Bush was with Saudi royalty and was in a posture that nobody in the west would blink at but the Arab world saw as submissive and trumpeted it in their media. If they jump on an opening of weakness that small, just imagine what blatant aggressive symbolism even an idiot can see will do for their cause. It pumps them the fuck up. lol. The left does not understand how much this matters. The Muslim world thinks we are the biggest pussies and it is reinforced daily.

 

[NoDak]

The Spanish were transformed by constant fighting with the Muslim moors. Once their enemy was gone, they suddenly had tons of soldiers with nothing to do. They were unleashed on the new world.

They were also the first to master blue water navigation.

I know people who've served in Afghanistan and or Iraq. They all have stories of butt rape. It's like prison. You use it to show you have power, or sell it for favors. It's disgusting, and it shows when they have grooming gangs set up in the west.

Not sure what you're referring to, but this is heinous. The world has been such a fucked up place for so long, for all-time and it still is.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/21/...ld-to-ignore-afghan-allies-abuse-of-boys.html

KABUL, Afghanistan — In his last phone call home, Lance Cpl. Gregory Buckley Jr. told his father what was troubling him: From his bunk in southern Afghanistan, he could hear Afghan police officers sexually abusing boys they had brought to the base.

“At night we can hear them screaming, but we’re not allowed to do anything about it,” the Marine’s father, Gregory Buckley Sr., recalled his son telling him before he was shot to death at the base in 2012. He urged his son to tell his superiors. “My son said that his officers told him to look the other way because it’s their culture.”

Rampant sexual abuse of children has long been a problem in Afghanistan, particularly among armed commanders who dominate much of the rural landscape and can bully the population. The practice is called bacha bazi, literally “boy play,” and American soldiers and Marines have been instructed not to intervene — in some cases, not even when their Afghan allies have abused boys on military bases, according to interviews and court records.

 

[ElKarlo]

@NoDak Yeah the Iberians figured it out and mastered it first.


Dude, what that article states. I know a guy who was an officer in Afghanistan. He said often times when taliban guys were captured, the ANA guys would interface them before the US got to them. Often times they were raped to death. Yeah.
In Iraq, the question if you're a Virgin is a double one. Do you mean I had sex with someone of they had sex with me? A lot of it happens when they're young boys, as your article states

 

[MicroBrew]

Another problem with the left is they don't understand either power dynamics or symbolism, or the combination of the two. The Arab/Muslim world seems obsessed with power dynamics. The smallest gestures. Like years ago when Bush was with Saudi royalty and was in a posture that nobody in the west would blink at but the Arab world saw as submissive and trumpeted it in their media. If they jump on an opening of weakness that small, just imagine what blatant aggressive symbolism even an idiot can see will do for their cause. It pumps them the fuck up. lol. The left does not understand how much this matters. The Muslim world thinks we are the biggest pussies and it is reinforced daily.

Reminds me of an Iraqi guy who was being interviewed by a Western reporter, some time in the mid to late 2000s. The guy said Arabs only respect power.

 

[trac209]

You're getting really obvious with your trolling.

That or he is a complete fucking idiot..

 

[MicroBrew]

They were also the first to master blue water navigation.



Not sure what you're referring to, but this is heinous. The world has been such a fucked up place for so long, for all-time and it still is.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/21/...ld-to-ignore-afghan-allies-abuse-of-boys.html

KABUL, Afghanistan — In his last phone call home, Lance Cpl. Gregory Buckley Jr. told his father what was troubling him: From his bunk in southern Afghanistan, he could hear Afghan police officers sexually abusing boys they had brought to the base.

“At night we can hear them screaming, but we’re not allowed to do anything about it,” the Marine’s father, Gregory Buckley Sr., recalled his son telling him before he was shot to death at the base in 2012. He urged his son to tell his superiors. “My son said that his officers told him to look the other way because it’s their culture.”

Rampant sexual abuse of children has long been a problem in Afghanistan, particularly among armed commanders who dominate much of the rural landscape and can bully the population. The practice is called bacha bazi, literally “boy play,” and American soldiers and Marines have been instructed not to intervene — in some cases, not even when their Afghan allies have abused boys on military bases, according to interviews and court records.

I would say the Polynesians were the first to master blue water navigation. When they went out in rafts, they knew where they were going, it wasn't just aimlessly drifting in the ocean hoping to find land. They had a map/chart made of twigs that showed the direction of currents.

Polynesians were the greatest seafarers ever, owing to how early they navigated the oceans and the limited tools at their disposal.

 

[LEGS MAHONEY]

To be fair, they were actually less batshit crazy during the Middle Ages. The problem is that they didn't move on from that point.

Nah they weren't. My initial comment was in jest as we had a similar discussion a few weeks ago where a few posters here kept trying to spin medieval Islam as being the less crazy option despite historical evidence pointing to the faith being just as barbaric as the rest and the apologist response was either silence or silly excuses.

As others noted the main problem with Islam is it has lagged behind its Abrahamic peers in modernizing itself. At this rate the sensible option is too stand firm and not kowtow to any of its groups who are not willing to play ball and follow suit and converting the church to a partial Islamic mosque is doing the exact opposite. It's trying to pamper away the problem and when you go soft on a group thats known for not being civil to others then it generally just emboldens them and nothing is solved.

Though at same time i sort of agree with the poster who wished for both religions in the country to devour each other and go away. Though more modernized as i noted we of course still have problems with Christianity as well notably the sex abuse scandals rampant in the church.

The youth in Spain seem to be getting increasingly less religious which is a good sign. Hopefully that means we will see less tolerance for religious nuttery across the board.

 

[hillelslovak87]

Just say no and recover the basilica of st. sophia for good measures.

Then talk endlessly about how Osama Bin Laden never got Andalucia back. Twist that particular funny knife. You know he was bitching about that shit in the 21st century? Really man, let that shit go.

 

[ElKarlo]

I would say the Polynesians were the first to master blue water navigation. When they went out in rafts, they knew where they were going, it wasn't just aimlessly drifting in the ocean hoping to find land. They had a map/chart made of twigs that showed the direction of currents.

Polynesians were the greatest seafarers ever, owing to how early they navigated the oceans and the limited tools at their disposal.

Dude, why did they travel like that? It's nuts. The loss rate must have been high. Amazing stuff.
Anyhow the spanish were able to bring cargo with them and made trade with their ships. On a pre industrial level. The Polynesians only kept up communication and limited trade. I get what you're saying, but there are things that are different

 

[DIDM]

The cucks just want to bend over

It is very frightening, the modern day liberal. Literally embracing your exicutioner