Law Soon to be head of ATF at Waco and Ruby Ridge and Lied about Waco

[Gregolian]

It was pointed out by many people including Koresh they had many opportunities to arrest him when he was by himself.

The whole thing as well as Ruby Ridge is a clusterfuck.

I understand te argument that Koresh and teh guy at Ruby Ridge if they had just complied with FBI requests for an interview and turning over the weapons (Ruby Ridge) and just willingly surrendering himself (Koresh) neither event would have happened.

But them refusing to do what the Feds wanted doesn't give the Feds the right to shoot the kid's dog and then the wife at Ruby Ridge and then throw grenades into a cult leader's compound lighting it on fire and instead of trying to get people out or put the fire out they proceed to bulldoze the compound with two tanks while people die.

 

[jx820]

Leftists will come to the defense of this guy

Left winger here. He should not misrepresent facts to the public even in an unofficial capacity.

 

[Ichibanner]

It was pointed out by many people including Koresh they had many opportunities to arrest him when he was by himself.

Yes. He left the compound on multiple occasions. If the Feds wanted to "save the children" and avoid bloodshed they went about it in a truly shocking, idiotic, and negligent manner.

 

[jx820]

It appears the truth is they did shoot at them, but nobody was injured and they landed safely after the shots were fired.

Ok. Thanks. It is kinda exaggerating though as they were disabled and not shot down out right.

This may be a confusion in technical or legal definitions. I.E. there may be some definition that refers to helicoptes being downed in any capacity by gunfire as "shot down" where the common usage definition is that gunfire causes a downing not intended or planned by the pilot.

 

[ElKarlo]

Yes. He left the compound on multiple occasions. If the Feds wanted to "save the children" and avoid bloodshed they went about it in a truly shocking, idiotic, and negligent manner.

Yeah, could have had two three guys just grab him. They didn’t even try that. They charged the castle like idiots. Was a power trip Also they did their best to destroy trust, so that even when burning they stayed inside due to how the feds had acted.

 

[ElKarlo]

The whole thing as well as Ruby Ridge is a clusterfuck.

I understand te argument that Koresh and teh guy at Ruby Ridge if they had just complied with FBI requests for an interview and turning over the weapons (Ruby Ridge) and just willingly surrendering himself (Koresh) neither event would have happened.

But them refusing to do what the Feds wanted doesn't give the Feds the right to shoot the kid's dog and then the wife at Ruby Ridge and then throw grenades into a cult leader's compound lighting it on fire and instead of trying to get people out or put the fire out they proceed to bulldoze the compound with two tanks while people die.

They also shot the son at RR. Agents were shaking out the place and the dog heard them and followed them. Son ended up getting killed along with his dog

 

[Ichibanner]

Yeah, could have had two three guys just grab him. They didn’t even try that. They charged the castle like idiots. Was a power trip Also they did their best to destroy trust, so that even when burning they stayed inside due to how the feds had acted.

Conflict escalation seemed to be the rule of the day. Coverup seemed to be the rule of the following days.

 

[jx820]

Hmmm, is this BDS or legit?


Looks like it could be legit.

It's a lot of BDS (not complete).

There were helicopters fired on at Waco and 3 helicopters took damage. They were not downed by mechanical failure, but by policy requirements according to the House representatives report and Treasury Investigation interviews of National Guard personnel. Treasury Documents T005371.

So at worst this guys' claims are very dishonest hyperbole, at best he's using a broad definition of the term "shot down" that isn't clear to the public. There absolutely were helicopters fired on that ended up on the ground due to gunfire. I wasn't able to find anything specific about what they were shooting with so who knows if it's a Barret .50 but I'm not sure that matters much.

This is nonsensical madness: "a man soaked in the blood of the innocent who has been hand selected by the globalists to lead their jack booted thugs and go door to door in American communities to undermine our American way of life". Like that's obvious crazy talk.

Also the ATF raided the compound on February 28th, and that was not when the fire killed all those people. The fire(s) started during an FBI raid in April authorized by the AG herself, so not really fair to put any of that on this guy's head. The person in charge in the field at the time of the fire was Bob Ricks.

So this is a case of a former Government agent and lobbyist who may or maynot be guilty of some pretty dishonest exhageration being nomiated to a leadership role in DC. Which is pretty much business as usual in DC during every presidency. Like it or not, our options typically boil down to inexperienced and unqualified candidate, or swamp creature.

 

[spamking]

Did he comply with the legal authorities completely?

Because if he didn't comply, he rolled the dice.



We all have choices to make in life.

Right . . . Weaver should've just became an informant and showed up at his trial on the right date even though he was given the wrong date. Comply, comply, comply!

And then that darn dog . . . and Weaver's son. If they only hadn't discovered the federal LEOs on their property and both end up getting shot. And Weaver's wife, if only she hadn't been shot in the face by mistake by a sniper.

 

[Strychnine]

Right . . . Weaver should've just became an informant and showed up at his trial on the right date even though he was given the wrong date. Comply, comply, comply!

And then that darn dog . . . and Weaver's son. If they only hadn't discovered the federal LEOs on their property and both end up getting shot. And Weaver's wife, if only she hadn't been shot in the face by mistake by a sniper.

I'm truly sorry they were shot.

When the Police come knocking, it's best not to grab your gun and stand your ground.

Mistakes were made...

On both sides.

 

[Ichibanner]

Right . . . Weaver should've just became an informant and showed up at his trial on the right date even though he was given the wrong date. Comply, comply, comply!

And then that darn dog . . . and Weaver's son. If they only hadn't discovered the federal LEOs on their property and both end up getting shot. And Weaver's wife, if only she hadn't been shot in the face by mistake by a sniper.

Exactly, it's not the Federal Government's fault. Compliance is the word of the day. Nevermind the lies and obvious coverups, missing evidence, or outright malfeasance.

It's not like the Waco incident and / or Ruby Ridge incited hatred and distrust of our Government spurring on people like Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols to bomb a Federal building in Oklahoma or something......

 

[evergreenrider]

I'm truly sorry they were shot.

When the Police come knocking, it's best not to grab your gun and stand your ground.

Mistakes were made...

On both sides.

They weren't knocking. Dudes dog found an agent hiding in the damn bushes

 

[Strychnine]

They weren't knocking. Dudes dog found an agent hiding in the damn bushes

Sorry the people were shot and the dog was killed. If I see a federal agent on my property, I'm dropping my gun, rake, shovel, or broom and putting my hands up.

Mistakes all around.

 

[spamking]

I'm truly sorry they were shot.

When the Police come knocking, it's best not to grab your gun and stand your ground.

Mistakes were made...

On both sides.

 

[Ichibanner]

Sorry the people were shot and the dog was killed. If I see a federal agent on my property, I'm dropping my gun, rake, shovel, or broom and putting my hands up.

Mistakes all around.

Randy Weaver didn't get a chance to drop anything and surrender. By the time he was aware that Federal Agents were on his property his 14 year old son had been shot in the back and killed after agents fired upon the family's dog. The following day his unarmed wife was shot in the face, murdered while standing in the doorway of the cabin.

Kinda hard to "drop your gun" and and trust in surrender when you didn't know agents were there and they are actively engaged in killing your family including your unarmed wife.

 

[Strychnine]

Randy Weaver didn't get a chance to drop anything and surrender. By the time he was aware that Federal Agents were on his property his 14 year old son had been shot in the back and killed after agents fired upon the family's dog. The following day his unarmed wife was shot in the face, murdered while standing in the doorway of the cabin.

Kinda hard to "drop your gun" and and trust in surrender when you didn't know agents were there and they are actively engaged in killing your family including your unarmed wife.

Terrible outcomes.. Just terrible and it's sickening.

 

[evergreenrider]

Terrible outcomes.. Just terrible and it's sickening.

Yeah he just should have complied with unknown commands an shit huh

 

[Strychnine]

Yeah he just should have complied with unknown commands an shit huh

Terrible outcomes and mistakes were made...

On both sides.

 

[KnightTemplar]

Yes. He left the compound on multiple occasions. If the Feds wanted to "save the children" and avoid bloodshed they went about it in a truly shocking, idiotic, and negligent manner.

I've heard a theory that senior officials in the ATF wanted a dramatic raid to boost the Agency's, and by extension their own, profile and status.

Whatever the reason, it was shockingly planned and executed.

 

[RerouteToRemain]

Terrible outcomes and mistakes were made...

On both sides.

If you read the history behind Ruby Ridge it is beyond ridiculous. He may have not been the greatest person but he was entrapped, attempted to be blackmailed, the atf lied horribly on the charges, he was told the wrong court date, etc.