Economy Solar power now less expensive and more reliable than fossil fuels

[curryjunkie]

Is surferh20 whippy McGee? Lol

If so, it explains alot

She has transitioned, did her adolescent breasts not give you a clue?

 

[Fedor>Cain]

She has transitioned, did her adolescent breasts not give you a clue?

 

[chardog]

It's great if you live somewhere it's sunny the majority of the time .. like in the southwest.

I have a 3.1kw system that we lease. It's okay but we exceed the production each year and end up paying $400-500 true up bills every year. But that still beats $200-300 electric bills three months out of the year and $50-75 every other month.

that honestly does not sound good, a 3.1kw system you can really buy outright, it shouldnt cost much (guestimating 4-5K).

I think those lease solar schemes are very scammish because solar is not some rocket science technology, essentially a panels mounted to your roof.

if you piecemeal the cost, lets say a 400W panel costs $300 (high side) per panel, you have about 8 panels, that's $2400 in panel costs, mounting hardware maybe $40 per panel for an additional $320, conduit and wires under $200, that's less than $3000 in parts...... the labor and agreements take up the rest of the bucks, and tax incentives of 30%..... but even without the tax incentives, it's not a super large price and it would pay itself back in a few years.

leasing something at that price just seems very fishy to me, they must be skimming a bunch of money.

 

[TeTe]

that honestly does not sound good, a 3.1kw system you can really buy outright, it shouldnt cost much (guestimating 4-5K).

I think those lease solar schemes are very scammish because solar is not some rocket science technology, essentially a panels mounted to your roof.

if you piecemeal the cost, lets say a 400W panel costs $300 (high side) per panel, you have about 8 panels, that's $2400 in panel costs, mounting hardware maybe $40 per panel for an additional $320, conduit and wires under $200, that's less than $3000 in parts...... the labor and agreements take up the rest of the bucks, and tax incentives of 30%..... but even without the tax incentives, it's not a super large price and it would pay itself back in a few years.

leasing something at that price just seems very fishy to me, they must be skimming a bunch of money.

The main reason we leased is because we have a tar and gravel roof. And no one would install it unless we replaced the roof. So that would have added $10k to the cost. Sun Run installed them on our roof and ate the extra $5k for installation (above the normal installation cost). It wasn't as straight forward as installing on a shingled roof.

Also since we've had the system for five years, we can buy it out if we want. Of course, I'm sure it'll be at an inflated price though.

 

[chardog]

This isn't really accurate as solar is non-dispatchable and requires either energy storage to back it up or dispatchable generation like natural gas. Whether it is cheaper or not depends on where you live, the electrical rates there, and the capacity factor of the region for solar and wind. Most of the U.S., outside of the west coast and northeast would likely see higher electrical rates with solar and wind generation. This though shouldn't be the only thing looked at as you have ancillary benefits like less CO2, better air quality which is an issue near coal plants, and a citizenry that is more conscious of environmental politics. If there are cost increases due to solar, they generally scale with the penetration of solar and wind generation as more and more expensive energy storage is needed or peaker units that have low useage capacity factors. If you wanted to go 100% renewables by like 2045 like California is trying, that will be expensive as there doesn't exist cheap energy storage. All the cheap energy storage, which is pumped hydro at dams, has already be gotten to as it has been low hanging fruit for a long time. Battery storage, namely Li-Ion, is reaching parity with peaker units. Cheaper methods like flow batteries ,which have the potential to scale, still have technological issues that are being worked out with their fragile membranes.

batteries are a big industry, most people can probably get by with a 5kw battery, and if you frequent long outages, maybe 10 kw, which can be had for $6K or so, and while it's not chump change, it's an investment that saves you money by using power off peak and eventually pays itself back while giving you independence. CATL is looking to produce sodium batteries in the near future, and they are a major player in the battery storage space.... and their batteries can be life changing, a total game changer if they can scale up with the sodium batteries.

 

[Osculater]

It's not a good form of energy to produce a stable grid......... Sorry

There's been huge power outages from using it, in Portugal and Spain........

People with poor understanding of electricity getting involved with planning.....

Chinese engineers must be laughing their heads off........along with the party on all the money made selling us this crap......

But you know, China produces these units at what expense to the planet.........

So don't buy Chinese crap

 

[Ara tech]

Green energy transition is often not so green and only green in cash for corpos.

If you live in the Sweden, or in the UK, or in Alaska, where there is almost no sun or not a lot of it, especially in winter, how could you benefit from it ?

The truth is, the same people who are shareholders in oil/coal corporations, are the same shareholders in the green energies corporations. It's a scam.

Use solar energy, and save the earth. Be a super hero, save the world ! It always had been like that, propaganda and lies.

But recently, the hardware is cheaper and a lot more effective and ready for large scale deployment. Green energies are more a middle class or rich rather than poor since the beginning.

 

[HOLA]

Is surferh20 whippy McGee? Lol

If so, it explains alot

Stop deadnaming her!!!

 

[Scerpi]

why are solar panels 40k to install

I made the mistake of calling to get a quote

$35K

But now I get spammed with texts and phone calls

 

[Blastbeat]

I made the mistake of calling to get a quote

$35K

But now I get spammed with texts and phone calls

how's the sunlight in your area? i live in a really sunny area not far from beaches but i have so many large trees on my property that i wouldnt be able to get much use out of any solar panels unless i cut down most of those trees! thats some backwards environmentalism for you.

do you think it would be worth it for you?

 

[Gamer2k4]

We just paid 35k to do ours, will get about 10k back in taxes next year (thanks Biden) and it should pay for itself in 6-7 years depending on how much the energy company raises its rates.
Sounds like a good investment to me.

You spend four grand a year on electricity? I pay half of that.

Then again, if you have 35K ready to go for purchases like this, I probably have half the house that you do, too.

 

[Scerpi]

how's the sunlight in your area? i live in a really sunny area not far from beaches but i have so many large trees on my property that i wouldnt be able to get much use out of any solar panels unless i cut down most of those trees! thats some backwards environmentalism for you.

do you think it would be worth it for you?

I'm on the Texas Gulf coast...

If I could even reasonably get my money back within 5 years to pay for A/C, then I'd do in a second.

But later on, I've heard horror stories about shitty installs and maintenance issues. I had a friend who ended up having to remove theirs.

If I revisit it, I'd have to a ton a research to verify it's a solid, reputable company and not some shitty pop up company.

It's like shopping for new windows.... which I also need. I got an incredibly expensive quote to replace those too.

 

[curryjunkie]

15 thousand euro, under 18 thousand dollars, is the cost of an average installed solar panel and battery system in Ireland, you are getting ripped of across the pond, or you have much bigger systems, for 40 grand I'd expect a heat pump, multiple batteries, and full house insulation upgrade, even then you are only talking 25 grand,payback time is estimated between 6 - 10 years, if you charge your own ev it is significantly less because you have no fuel bills.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

Solar Power has now surpassed coal and other fossil fuels as the cheapest and most reliable form of electricity generation, according to recent research and studies published on the subject.

Once installed, the marginal cost of solar is essentially zero—sunlight is free. Solar requires a large upfront investment (still far less than the subsidies fossil fuels companies get) and afterwards the energy is basically free, requiring nothing more than maintenance costs on the solar farms.

According to a new book published by Brett Christophers, Solar when paired with wind and new battery technology is far more cost effective for consumers and is more reliable than fossil fuels, however they are much less profitable for fossil fuel companies.

In terms of the reliability argument:



Governments still subsidize fossil fuels heavily (the IMF estimates trillions globally).

To learn more about this subject you can see it broken down here:



Good thing Trump cancelled all the green energy projects that had been planned, otherwise people’s costs might have gone down and profits would suffer. The most important thing is that his buddies make money, after all.

I want to know who did the study because I'm pretty sure that its utter rubbish.

Last I checked it would cost me roughly 52k to install enough solar to generate enough power to take me completely off grid. And that wasn't including batteries which would have been another 25k, but I would save 5k on an inverter if I bought batteries.

 

[Ara tech]

15 thousand euro, under 18 thousand dollars, is the cost of an average installed solar panel and battery system in Ireland, you are getting ripped of across the pond, or you have much bigger systems, for 40 grand I'd expect a heat pump, multiple batteries, and full house insulation upgrade, even then you are only talking 25 grand

Solar energy systems are only profitable on paper on the long term, not in the short term, but in reality there are pofitable in none.

Durability of the product is another problem, if the infrastructure gets broken down, or need maintenance, you are screwed to repair it with more money or to buy a new other one, and the mechano guy will cost you money when he will usually visit you twice. Especially if you live in an area of northern europe or america where there is no sun, you are screwed.

It's just not the deal of the century. You are right, there are better ways to spend one's money than in solar energy.

 

[Blastbeat]

I'm on the Texas Gulf coast...

If I could even reasonably get my money back within 5 years to pay for A/C, then I'd do in a second.

But later on, I've heard horror stories about shitty installs and maintenance issues. I had a friend who ended up having to remove theirs.

If I revisit it, I'd have to a ton a research to verify it's a solid, reputable company and not some shitty pop up company.

It's like shopping for new windows.... which I also need. I got an incredibly expensive quote to replace those too.

damn so you really dont lack sunlight!
most solar panels are produced in China which has a very wide range of quality in manufacturing. if the US could construct more solar panels locally, perhaps they'd be cheaper for US consumers. we would just need some raw materials from abroad.
hope you find a reputable company because it sounds like youve got an ideal location for solar panels. and any money saved on energy bills is a good thing.

that sucks about your windows too. definitely not cheap if you have to replace a whole bunch at once. i love owning my home but damn, people really were right in telling me that a homeowner's work is never done.

 

[curryjunkie]

Solar energy systems are only profitable on paper on the long term, not in the short term, but in reality there are pofitable in none.

Durability of the product is another problem, if the infrastructure gets broken down, or need maintenance, you are screwed to repair it with more money or to buy a new other one, and the mechano guy will cost you money when he will usually visit you twice. Especially if you live in an area of northern europe or america where there is no sun, you are screwed.

It's just not the deal of the century. You are right, there are better ways to spend one's money than in solar energy.

That must be why solar is booming...good talk..

 

[PainIsLIfe]

It's great if you live somewhere it's sunny the majority of the time .. like in the southwest.

I have a 3.1kw system that we lease. It's okay but we exceed the production each year and end up paying $400-500 true up bills every year. But that still beats $200-300 electric bills three months out of the year and $50-75 every other month.

What do you pay for your lease?

 

[curryjunkie]

damn so you really dont lack sunlight!
most solar panels are produced in China which has a very wide range of quality in manufacturing. if the US could construct more solar panels locally, perhaps they'd be cheaper for US consumers. we would just need some raw materials from abroad.
hope you find a reputable company because it sounds like youve got an ideal location for solar panels. and any money saved on energy bills is a good thing.

that sucks about your windows too. definitely not cheap if you have to replace a whole bunch at once. i love owning my home but damn, people really were right in telling me that a homeowner's work is never done.

German made solar panels have a great reputation, they are more expensive but you get what you pay for

 

[Zookeeper Gabe]

You spend four grand a year on electricity? I pay half of that.

Then again, if you have 35K ready to go for purchases like this, I probably have half the house that you do, too.

lol. We didn’t have rent or mortgage for 9 years because I worked two jobs. My second job provided housing as my “pay”, so we were able to save a fuck ton of money.
Our house is only about 1600 sq’ but did cost over 530k.