So whats the consensus: How much of Joker (2019) actually happened

5crew said:
Pheonix didn't portray Joker, his character is someone that inspired the real Joker to appear.
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that would make a great trilogy, I would close off with Phoenix killing the "real" Joker in the last movie.
 
Threetrees said:
And how much of it was the fever dream of a crazy dude

There's a good take that all of it except for the asylum scenes are fake
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I thought it was clever how they left just enough ambiguity so there is no definitive consensus. Particularly with the backstory of his mom and Thomas Wayne. That photo signed "I always loved your smile. -TW" is a strong clue that she may have been telling the truth. Some nerds on reddit analyzed the handwriting as belonging to a different person from the one writing letters to her son.

But it doesn't matter either way when it's your word against a billionaire's. They construct the truth you have to live with.
 
dissectingaorticaneurysm said:
I thought it was clever how they left just enough ambiguity so there is no definitive consensus. Particularly with the backstory of his mom and Thomas Wayne. That photo signed "I always loved your smile. -TW" is a strong clue that she may have been telling the truth. Some nerds on reddit analyzed the handwriting as belonging to a different person from the one writing letters to her son.

But it doesn't matter either way when it's your word against a billionaire's. They construct the truth you have to live with.
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there's a take that the part in the bathroom with Wayne never happened
 
DespicablePeep said:
Falling in acid/chemical waste after a robbery gone wrong has always been the most used origin, him being bipolar and depressive with a weak mind was never an angle before. He was always ruthless and cold
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Yep. And very clever.
I really liked the movie, but I just couldn't see how this guy in a clown suit could somehow end up as batman's arch enemy.
 
DespicablePeep said:
Falling in acid/chemical waste after a robbery gone wrong has always been the most used origin, him being bipolar and depressive with a weak mind was never an angle before. He was always ruthless and cold
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yeah that would tear and make anyone insane that they would carry a boombox around and dance around to Prince
 
Sonny Qc said:
Still haven't watched it.

I hate Phoenix, so might never watch.
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You're truly missing out, bud. Don't let a bias stop you from experiencing greatness.
 
Iroh said:
What the take on it then? Why do they think it didn't happen?
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Because of the transition to the next scene where he climbs into the fridge

very end of the clip
 
Threetrees said:
Because of the transition to the next scene where he climbs into the fridge

very end of the clip
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<mma4>

Could be, or could just be a visually smooth time skip.
 
Iroh said:
<mma4>

Could be, or could just be a visually smooth time skip.
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Well the director (Phillips?) apparently said its just coincidence

but if we remove authorial intent, I think there's a very fair way to watch the movie as if multiple scenes that seem a bit too reliant on coincidence only happened in Fleck's mind.
 
I thought Heath Herring died?
 
I haven't seen the movie yet but if it's full of scenes that don't actually happen except in the main character's head then it's gonna have to be a skip for me.
 
5crew said:
Pheonix didn't portray Joker, his character is someone that inspired the real Joker to appear.
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I agree 100 percent!

Arthur fleck is the black and white television. The joker that rivals Batman is the colored upgrade. A man of intelligence and guerilla warfare capabilities.

Everything has an evolution or improvement process. Arthur fleck is too lacking in number of skills that can come close to rivaling Batman. That and he is way too old to be batmans rival.


By the time Bruce Wayne is in his late teen, Arthur is going to be an old man. I would imagine that he is going to be a mentor for the real joker. Him sparing that little dude shows that he is capable of being kind to someone he sees as innocent.
 
Threetrees said:
Well the director (Phillips?) apparently said its just coincidence

but if we remove authorial intent, I think there's a very fair way to watch the movie as if multiple scenes that seem a bit too reliant on coincidence only happened in Fleck's mind.
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Yeah, a lot of independent parts aren't re-established through out the movie and are more there just as an accumulation to which he eventually snaps. But the reason that they don't really get re-established can just as well be a result of time restrain for the movie and style choices, as it could be additional figments of his imagination to the more well established figments of his imagination. But obviously the former is also part of the authorial intent, but it stays a movie so you can't really take that intent out completely.
 
Ogata said:
I agree 100 percent!

Arthur fleck is the black and white television. The joker that rivals Batman is the colored upgrade. A man of intelligence and guerilla warfare capabilities.

Everything has an evolution or improvement process. Arthur fleck is too lacking in number of skills that can come close to rivaling Batman. That and he is way too old to be batmans rival.


By the time Bruce Wayne is in his late teen, Arthur is going to be an old man. I would imagine that he is going to be a mentor for the real joker. Him sparing that little dude shows that he is capable of being kind to someone he sees as innocent.
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Isn’t this a standalone movie? None of it should really matter if it’s a contained story.
 
Dizzy said:
Isn’t this a standalone movie? None of it should really matter if it’s a contained story.
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Well they are talking about sequel now. So I assume that the sequel can expand on Arthur fleck meeting the future joker or inspiring him.
 
Ogata said:
Well they are talking about sequel now. So I assume that the sequel can expand on Arthur fleck meeting the future joker or inspiring him.
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dissectingaorticaneurysm said:
It was originally pitched as such, but it made a billion dollars so they're trying to milk everything they can out of it.
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That’s a bummer. I was pretty content with the story ending there.
 
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