Media So was Leon Edwards trying to eye poke before getting knocked out?

AL-Tappo McSnappo said:

look at his fingers aiming for Prates eyes

Super necessary knockout

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36iB5lW.gif
 
I don't think it's an active thought in the moment, you are in a fight and random strikes are coming at you from all angles, your body is going to react based on thousands of hours of training simulation and no one is training eye pokes (except maybe Jones lol).

If anything it's a bad instinct/trechnique from kickboxing training where you try to frame off a guys head when he rushes in with your lead hand, so we'll see this quite often in fights where someone is trying to keep range against a blitz (like Gane vs. Aspinal). Leon also did it against Belal and it was very similar.

Eye-poking your opponent blatantly in a bad enough way to end a fight and cause a NC/DQ doesn't seem like a logical strategy in a fight where you are winning (was beating Belal before it happened, had won he first round vs. Prates though things were turning against him in the second but he wasn't getting crushed or anything).

Now does Leon care if he eye-pokes his opponent? Not really. But I don't think his lizard brain registers throwing an eye-poke as a counter when someone is trying to hit him. It's another thing to do it when you are on the offensive like Jones vs. Rampage and you are abusing a reach advantage to just Three Stooges your opponents eye sockets.
 
TheMMAnalyst said:
I don't think it's an active thought in the moment, you are in a fight and random strikes are coming at you from all angles, your body is going to react based on thousands of hours of training simulation and no one is training eye pokes (except maybe Jones lol).

If anything it's a bad instinct/trechnique from kickboxing training where you try to frame off a guys head when he rushes in with your lead hand, so we'll see this quite often in fights where someone is trying to keep range against a blitz (like Gane vs. Aspinal). Leon also did it against Belal and it was very similar.

Eye-poking your opponent blatantly in a bad enough way to end a fight and cause a NC/DQ doesn't seem like a logical strategy in a fight where you are winning (was beating Belal before it happened, had won he first round vs. Prates though things were turning against him in the second but he wasn't getting crushed or anything).

Now does Leon care if he eye-pokes his opponent? Not really. But I don't think his lizard brain registers throwing an eye-poke as a counter when someone is trying to hit him. It's another thing to do it when you are on the offensive like Jones vs. Rampage and you are abusing a reach advantage to just Three Stooges your opponents eye sockets.
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But he has a history of eye pokes and he nearly got it done again, guys like him shouldn't be warned, just take away points right away in future fights.
 
AL-Tappo McSnappo said:
But he has a history of eye pokes and he nearly got it done again, guys like him shouldn't be warned, just take away points right away in future fights.
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I completely agree.

What I was addressing was the question posed of "was he trying to eye poke?" and in my opinion his eye pokes are the result of bad technique for MMA striking defense (or good in one sense, as they let you get away with a lot of eye pokes), they aren't the result of him actively thinking/attempting to eye poke.

But yeah punish him 100%. In this case he didn't need to get warned or get points taken, he got removed from consciousness instead which was a much more satisfying punishment.
 
TheMMAnalyst said:
I don't think it's an active thought in the moment, you are in a fight and random strikes are coming at you from all angles, your body is going to react based on thousands of hours of training simulation and no one is training eye pokes (except maybe Jones lol).

If anything it's a bad instinct/trechnique from kickboxing training where you try to frame off a guys head when he rushes in with your lead hand, so we'll see this quite often in fights where someone is trying to keep range against a blitz (like Gane vs. Aspinal). Leon also did it against Belal and it was very similar.

Eye-poking your opponent blatantly in a bad enough way to end a fight and cause a NC/DQ doesn't seem like a logical strategy in a fight where you are winning (was beating Belal before it happened, had won he first round vs. Prates though things were turning against him in the second but he wasn't getting crushed or anything).

Now does Leon care if he eye-pokes his opponent? Not really. But I don't think his lizard brain registers throwing an eye-poke as a counter when someone is trying to hit him. It's another thing to do it when you are on the offensive like Jones vs. Rampage and you are abusing a reach advantage to just Three Stooges your opponents eye sockets.
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The correct way to frame in Kickboxing and Thai is with a closed fist and rotating the hand up like a motorbike.
Only striking sport this happens with any regularity is MMA. Even the MMA glove Muay Thai in One, rarely has eye pokes (compared to a UFC card).
They don;t even lose points there, they lose money instead.
 
maximus__ said:
The correct way to frame in Kickboxing and Thai is with a closed fist and rotating the hand up like a motorbike.
Only striking sport this happens with any regularity is MMA. Even the MMA glove Muay Thai in One, rarely has eye pokes (compared to a UFC card).
They don;t even lose points there, they lose money instead.
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When you fight in Kickboxing and May Thai you are wearing a glove that completely pads and wraps he hand, so it's impossible to eye poke and you don't have an option for framing other than to use the entirety of the glove.

Remove the gloves and/or put on MMA gloves and you'll find that most people instinctively will use an open hand to frame. There is no reason to close your fist if you are trying to push off your opponents face/head (if it's a closed fist it's far more likely to slip then to create the necessary force-tension to push them away).

They use different MMA gloves in both ONE and PFL, fighters have talked about this before, those gloves make it difficult to keep your fingers straight because they are built with curvature. The UFC gloves are notorious for being quite rigid and keeping your fingers out-stretched unless you are actively trying to clench and make a fist. You aren't supposed to make a fist until the moment before you strike, so fighters hands are naturally going to have the fingers sticking out since why would they keep their hands balled in fists at all times when they aren't throwing 90%+ of the time? It's also a common striking technique to parry with an open-hand or use it to hand/wrist-trap, so even more reason to keep the hand open (especially the lead hand).

It's a combination of adapted technique being flawed plus the equipment they are using being poorly designed in one respect. Since fighters rarely if ever get punished for committing any fouls they have little incentive to unnaturally adapt a technique that inadvertently helps them (i.e. you get free eye pokes and/or your opponent is worried about getting eye-poked).

But yes, if you took away some of their money like with the PRIDE yellow card system then fighters would be more likely to adapt the technique as much as possible to reduce the frequency at which this occurs.
 
TheMMAnalyst said:
When you fight in Kickboxing and May Thai you are wearing a glove that completely pads and wraps he hand, so it's impossible to eye poke and you don't have an option for framing other than to use the entirety of the glove.

Remove the gloves and/or put on MMA gloves and you'll find that most people instinctively will use an open hand to frame. There is no reason to close your fist if you are trying to push off your opponents face/head (if it's a closed fist it's far more likely to slip then to create the necessary force-tension to push them away).

They use different MMA gloves in both ONE and PFL, fighters have talked about this before, those gloves make it difficult to keep your fingers straight because they are built with curvature. The UFC gloves are notorious for being quite rigid and keeping your fingers out-stretched unless you are actively trying to clench and make a fist. You aren't supposed to make a fist until the moment before you strike, so fighters hands are naturally going to have the fingers sticking out since why would they keep their hands balled in fists at all times when they aren't throwing 90%+ of the time? It's also a common striking technique to parry with an open-hand or use it to hand/wrist-trap, so even more reason to keep the hand open (especially the lead hand).

It's a combination of adapted technique being flawed plus the equipment they are using being poorly designed in one respect. Since fighters rarely if ever get punished for committing any fouls they have little incentive to unnaturally adapt a technique that inadvertently helps them (i.e. you get free eye pokes and/or your opponent is worried about getting eye-poked).

But yes, if you took away some of their money like with the PRIDE yellow card system then fighters would be more likely to adapt the technique as much as possible to reduce the frequency at which this occurs.
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My comment was directly addressing the bit about people stretching out their fingers in kickboxing. I have seen a few people saying that on here and it's not true or even possible in kickboxing gloves. Chuck a set and try it. You have to make a fist or your glove moves in a weird way and your fingers get weirdly bent over.It's bad enough in 16 ounce gloves and impossible in 10s or below which are actually used.

No disagreement on the MMA gloves not being the best, but again it's an easy fix by gauging distance like you have to with normal style gloves. Normal gloves force you to make a fist when you reach out to long guard. There is no excuse for it to happen in any form of distance striking. It should only happen if someone is trying to clinch or grapple.

It's happening nearly every card because it can be used as a way to stop people entering in and control distance. They are happy to risk the 1 free eye poke you get.
 
maximus__ said:
My comment was directly addressing the bit about people stretching out their fingers in kickboxing. I have seen a few people saying that on here and it's not true or even possible in kickboxing gloves. Chuck a set and try it. You have to make a fist or your glove moves in a weird way and your fingers get weirdly bent over.It's bad enough in 16 ounce gloves and impossible in 10s or below which are actually used.

No disagreement on the MMA gloves not being the best, but again it's an easy fix by gauging distance like you have to with normal style gloves. Normal gloves force you to make a fist when you reach out to long guard. There is no excuse for it to happen in any form of distance striking. It should only happen if someone is trying to clinch or grapple.

It's happening nearly every card because it can be used as a way to stop people entering in and control distance. They are happy to risk the 1 free eye poke you get.
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It's preferable to frame off someone's head with an open palm if you are wearing a glove with finger openings. You just have a better ability to get control with a grip using fingers/the palm of your hand/glove. Sticking out your hand with a closed fist to frame is basically throwing a powerless jab.

I agree that it's abused as a default technique because you aren't punished for eye pokes, so you might as well dissuade your opponent from running into your fingers on top of getting a better control of their face/head to push off of.

It's definitely also an equipment issue though, which is why you don't see many eye pokes in Bellator/PFL or ONE, since their gloves naturally curl the fingers into a fist so you have to actively open your hand with a lot of force to keep your hand open/fingers outstretched.
 
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