So... Objectively, how good was Tyron really?

[Utahraptor Ostrommaysi]

2 of his defenses were pure shit and boring and barely eked out a decision win, combined with a draw previously....then he fights old man maia and once again basically does fuck all except coast. Then he had one decent win against Till before getting dismantled twice.

No one is saying he isn't a decent fighter. My issue is when people try and use the how many times he defended the title argument. He defended against some weak opposition and just coasted and threw nothing and did nothing.

So two of the most elite strikers in the UFC (Wonder Boy and Till) and one of the most elite BJJ practitioners in the UFC (Maia) is weak opposition now?

LMAO again, Sherdog is gonna Sherdog. Look, if you're not a fan of Woodley or his style that's fine, but don't pretend that he only defended his belt against bums just because you don't like the guy. I'm not a fan of Colby Covington, but you don't see me going around pretending that he isn't an elite fighter or that he isn't one of the best Welterweights in the world because that would be just plain ignorance on my part.

 

[sdpdude9]

Good, even great fighter that has a weakness that can be taken advantage of. That weakness is getting stuck on the cage and gun shy when an opponent doesn’t give him any respect and stays in his face. Now add in age and maybe not being all in potentially catching up to him, we probably won’t see him at his best any longer.

 

[Cat Biscuits]

He's always been good, but lately he just looks like he doesn't want it anymore. Shit happens, and that feeling can manifest overnight.

 

[SeattleFightFan]

3rd best is a coin flip between a few people. He's one of those few. Some others include Fitch, Shields, Miletich, Lawler.

Some people who aren't in that list include Condit, Thompson, Rory, Maia, Diaz, Hendricks.

I honestly have no interest debating where Fitch, Shields and Woodley should rank. "They're all closely bunched" is a good enough answer for me.

 

[cookdaddy]

Woodley has always been like this, to some extent. I think it has more to do with his matchups than it does his skillset. It seems like he struggles with guys that are really well rounded, guys that do not have a lot of obvious holes in their game. His fights against Wonderboy and Maia were against specialists, not complete fighters and Woodleys skill set works perfectly to disarm or prevent the specialist from working their game. Whereas Rory, Gastelum, Usman and Burns have a much more developed and well rounded game and Woodley had a much harder time implementing his gameplan against him.

So looking back, I think Woodleys fights during his championship run couldn't have been a better matchup for him.

 

[Judge Lance Ito]

Dude was fucking average at best.

His standing at the cage tactics worked briefly (although I still think he lost twice to Wonderboy) but was found out very quickly and he was made a fool of.

He's pondlife as well. Don't forget he bit Johnny Hendrick's finger

 

[MarleyLynx]

I don't want to sound like a typical Sherdogger with the infamous he was never that good after losing a fight, but..

The range of skills he displayed makes me think he was an overachiever and of course not even close to the greatest fighters in terms of skills.

Let's look at Tyrone's UFC record

Loss 19–5–1 Gilbert Burns Decision
Loss 19–4–1 Kamaru Usman Decision
Win 19–3–1 Darren Till Submission
Win 18–3–1 Demian Maia Decision
Win 17–3–1 Stephen Thompson Decision (majority)
Draw 16–3–1 Stephen Thompson Draw (majority)
Win 16–3 Robbie Lawler KO (punches)
Win 15–3 Kelvin Gastelum Decision (split)
Win 14–3 Dong Hyun Kim TKO (punches)
Loss 13–3 Rory MacDonald (Decision)
Win 13–2 Carlos Condit TKO (knee injury)
Win 12–2 Josh Koscheck KO (punches)
Loss 11–2 Jake Shields Decision (split)
Win 11–1 Jay Hieron KO (punches)

On paper, not too shabby.
But you got split over Kelvin and majority Dec over Wonderboy, and a draw. The KO's were nice but that's just a flurry, the same one at least in both cases, landing big, good night. Robbie, great win. Props. But if the big bomb doesn't land?
Kelvin, good win also, but many felt he lost. Maia, great win but Maia didn't have a good long camp for that fight. But still, great TDD. Wonderboy fights, didn't show anything other than backing up and landing a shot. Still great draw / win but he didn't really show much there. Wobderboy deserves to be blamed on the second fight too for sure.
Till fight, great timing on the shot, good sub finish, good win.
Then gets dominated badly when he can't land his big shot. But he fights as always.
However, the opponent is not scared to engage, has technique and chin.


Power puncher with wrestling who came in at a great time of the WW division to take over.
GOAT? no. P4p? no. Very good fighter but got great opportunity due to timing

People say Twood aged over night and he doesn't want it anymore. Is it true, though?
He has fought the same as he always fought. Back up to the cage and hope for a bomb landing while defend a takedown.

So what he showed me:
- great power, overall explosiveness and timing of his bomb
- good takedown defense
- decent bjj

Now as far as creativity, combinations, footwork, i haven't really seen that in his fights. Where is the range of skills that would make him stand out above the rest so that he can be considered one of the greatest? Not even close. I'm not saying people say he is, though. But I know he is saying that and I don't agree.
He did very good with the skillset he had but and is obviously very good fighter but far from being considered in the same league as the greats in my opinion. And I do believe he is an overachiever that if was a bit unlucky with decisions and granting him that imo undeserving TS then he would be considered just a pretty good fighter. His limited skillset got exposed in his last 2 fights. Yes, GSP lost too, but it was a KO. Can happen to anyone. But to get dominated for full 5 rounds and then lose is something else.

And to re-iterate. He was / is certainly very good, but not near greatness and never was.

 

[Brandon Wilson]

Good timing for winning the championship and a little lucky for keeping the strap that long

Good timing with his fight with Robbie, yes.

However, you don't get lucky and keep the title for as long as he did. I'd just say his title run was consistent with his skill level. Very good, but not an all time great.

 

[Osiris3657]

I'm not a Woodley fan, and yes, I think he's overrated. He got extremely lucky with the matchups during his championship reign.

Woodley is very one dimensional. His striking is basically an overhand right. No kicking game, no good jab. Forget about combinations. His game is to neutralize the opponent.

Does he have one of the most powerful overhand rights in the division's history? Sure, I'll give him that. I'll also give him that he's one of the best ever at takedown defense. Those things obviously got him far, but again, as the last two fights have shown (and others before his championship reign, like Rory), there's a clear path to victory against him.

He clipped Robbie very early in the first round. Good for him. I think if that fight goes 3-5 rounds like a normal Woodley (and Lawler) fight, I think Robbie retains. He's got the in your face pressure striking game that Tyron hates and he crumbles against. I don't know about today, but if Lawler and Woodley from 2016 rematched, I think Lawler wins 9 out of 10 times.

Wonderboy was made for Woodley. Wonderboy is a counter striker in the purest sense. Woodley didn't have much to fear as long as he didn't initiate any exchanges.

Maia was also a great matchup for Woodley. Maia needs the fight to go to the ground, and Woodley's elite TDD kept that from happening. Maia also doesn't possess the power and pressure striking to scare Woodley. Another great matchup.

Till....I think Till is also overrated (and he'll be exposed against Whittaker later this summer). If Colby had been the opponent here, as he should have been, I think Woodley's reign ends a fight earlier than it did.

Usman and Burns followed the blueprint that Rory set. Stay constantly in his face. They all steamrolled him.

GSP, Hughes, Hendricks, Lawler all had better careers and more impressive resumes.

 

[The Legendary Scarface]

He just never adapted and MMA passed him by

 

[NoContest]

People give his title run way too much credit. He came as close to not winning as possible twice against Wonderboy. Maia was an old man when they fought. And Till hasn't proved himself yet.

Also, I'm pretty sure there was never a time when Rory wouldn't beat him in a fight. People like to pretend there was some sort of evolution in Tyron's game after that thorough loss but that's bullshit.

 

[ImmigrantMentality]

At his peak would have beaten any ww in history other than maybe gsp

 

[ImmigrantMentality]

People give his title run way too much credit. He came as close to not winning as possible twice against Wonderboy. Maia was an old man when they fought. And Till hasn't proved himself yet.

Also, I'm pretty sure there was never a time when Rory wouldn't beat him in a fight. People like to pretend there was some sort of evolution in Tyron's game after that thorough loss but that's bullshit.

Well the Rory after the Lawler beating was never the same and that's when Woodley started to reach his peak so I'm pretty sure Woodley would have destroyed him at that time

 

[RedSoul]

I thought the first

I've never enjoyed a single fight of Tyron's. Easily one of my least favorite fighters of all time but he maximized his gifts, worked hard, became champ, and defended his title. The man is a beast but I will be very happy upon his exit and will quickly forget his existence within the MMA world. The price of playing it safe.

Really? His first fight with Wonderboy is on of the most entertaining fights oof the last decade.

 

[Usurper123]

Once he became champ his style seemed to change and it looked like he fell in love with his right hand. The guy is 38 became a champ in 2 orgs, not a bad career but would not rank him very high on the all time list.

 

[Bastet]

1. Usman
2. Edwards
3. Burns
4. GSP
5. Woodley

 

[NoContest]

Well the Rory after the Lawler beating was never the same and that's when Woodley started to reach his peak so I'm pretty sure Woodley would have destroyed him at that time

You're wrong. Rory always had Woodley's number and losing to an active contender like that and never avenging it will always be a mark against Tyron. I know it's not his fault Rory went to Bellator but I just couldn't respect a champ calling himself GOAT so soon after a decisive loss like that that he neve avenged.

 

[ExxA]

I've never enjoyed a single fight of Tyron's. Easily one of my least favorite fighters of all time but he maximized his gifts, worked hard, became champ, and defended his title. The man is a beast but I will be very happy upon his exit and will quickly forget his existence within the MMA world. The price of playing it safe.

I was gonna write something but you pretty much said it. Take my like and a salute!

 

[linvillegorge]

He was really damn good, but he definitely shifted to a very conservative safe style after winning the belt in exciting fashion.

 

[Dbreiden83080]