SO i was in a submission wrestling competition

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by HurtConveyor, Jul 7, 2005.

  1. HurtConveyor

    HurtConveyor Guest

    Basically i against some BJJ guy... i took him down with a double leg and ended up in his guard, he guard sweeped me, then i did a mount escape to end up back in his guard.....


    Why did he win.... a mount escape is harder than a guard sweep, and i got a double leg.
     
  2. b00m3r

    b00m3r White Belt

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    Sweep(2) + mount(4) = 6 points. Takedown = 2. Mount escape is worth nothing since you still ended up in an inferior position (his guard).
     
  3. TJS

    TJS Brown Belt

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    becuase if you are mounted then you have to escape...so you shouldent be rewarded for it.
     
  4. Rip Van Winkle

    Rip Van Winkle Last Login 2009

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    because you need to train harder and understand the rules better.
     
  5. Balto

    Balto Silver Belt

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    This brings up an interesting question about the point system in BJJ.

    Why is it that only guard sweeps are awarded points? I understand that in the above case, ending up back in someone's guard is not a sweep. However, there are several realistic instances of "sweeping" a person from a superior position to an inferior position that do not involve the guard at all.

    The easiest example is one of the more common escapes to kesagatame (scarf hold with head and arm). If the opponent shifts his weight too far up onto your body, it is very easy to simply bridge him over. This is not a strength move; I can easily do it on people who outweigh me by 50 pounds or more. It is a legitimate technical escape from the pin that lands you in a superior position (side control). However, since it is not a "sweep" from the guard, no points are awarded for this escape.

    My question is what is the reasoning for not counting this technique as a sweep under BJJ rules? I always thought it should count, but one of my blue belt training partners corrected me and said it did not. Why?
     
  6. Sherdog_Mutt

    Sherdog_Mutt Purple Belt

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    This is because certain moves are not sweeps but ESCAPES. The logic of the point system is that you should not be rewarded for doing things that you NEED TO DO for self-defense purposes. Similarly, you're not rewarded points for recovering to full guard after you've been taking down.
     
  7. Oktavius**

    Oktavius** Brown Belt

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    Plus i dont think you would get any points for your takedown because you didnt finish it in an advantages position, he pulled you into guard.
     
  8. jhn

    jhn White Belt

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    You should get 2 points for that i.e takedown ending up in his guard. 4 points is rewarded if takedown ends in sidemount or mount.
     
  9. Oktavius**

    Oktavius** Brown Belt

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    You should get 2 points for that i.e takedown ending up in his guard. 4 points is rewarded if takedown ends in sidemount or mount.

    K im a bit rusty but i think they were doing these rules for a while hereabouts. Or was it pulling guard? cant remeber...
     
  10. naskwon14g

    naskwon14g www.fightway.fr

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    Right!

    Didn't you get at least advantages?
     
  11. Stoic1

    Stoic1 Patriot

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    I would say you lost because you didn't know a fucking thing about the rules and points.

    Maybe next time do your homework and prepare accordingly. If you don't like the rules then don't enter.

    But lets review:

    A) A double leg takedown is worth 2pts. Very good.
    B) A sweep is worth 2pts. Improving your position from the bottom to the top is worth the same amount of pts. 2.
    C) It appears you got swept into the mount. The mount is an excellent position. Worth 4pts.
    D) Escaping a bad position isn't worth any points. The same way you aren't awarded points for escaping side control or an armbar.

    You lost 6-2.

    Now you can debate the rules all you want. What YOU think is important and what YOU think should be changed. The bottom line is if you don't like those rules you can compete under a different set. You could go strictly wrestling rules where escapes ARE rewarded. You could go GJJT rules where takedowns are worth didly, and they reverse guard position after a certain amount of time. You could go with strict CBJJ rules. You could compete under NAGA/GQ rules. You could go Judo rules. Whatever you like. The point is there are many formats in which to compete. But if you don't know the rules and points under the one you are under then don't bother showing up, and certainly don't come to a message board to complain. You sound like an even bigger loser.
     
  12. colinm

    colinm Brown Belt

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    everybody else has this well covered, but if you are looking for an explaination outside of the points system:

    you got the takedown and ended up in guard which is a slightly advantageous position, by most definitions. he swept you, putting him on top and at a minimum he will be in a slightly advantageous position (your guard). so you guys would have been even if you got him in your guard. but, you got mounted and in a real fight this usually means lights out/submission, hence the large points award (4). the escape from the mount doesnt mean shit because you dont get rewarded for getting back to a neutral position, only advancing your position.
     
  13. Gsoares**

    Gsoares** Banned Banned

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    I personally think it is harder to score a good sweep then just bridinging out of Mount back into his guard..

    When you move for a sweep you leave your self open for side mount and to be mounted...
     
  14. cottonzway

    cottonzway ....

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    Wow, you sound like a total ass. He just asked a question there fella. No need to call him a loser and shit like that.
     
  15. GameofLife

    GameofLife White Belt

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    In BJJ gaurd is considered a neutral position, ie 0 popints. So, even if you sweep someone to that position the result is no points. You have to work from there for better position: pass, side mount, knee ride, full mount, etc.
     
  16. pitviper23

    pitviper23 Green Belt

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    Here's a crazy suggestion how about you stop worrying so much about points and get so good at subs it doesn't matter where you end up cause your gonna finish the fight?!?
     
  17. Rolls

    Rolls Guest

    sports jiu justsu is the devil....
    but with that being said, thats why the flying sweep is the coolest tourny move

    2 for the sweep 4 for the mount = 6 points
     
  18. Stoic1

    Stoic1 Patriot

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    How about fuck you, with a side order of eat a bag o shit?

    Losers cry and blame the rules. As I said, don't enter if you don't like them.
     
  19. cottonzway

    cottonzway ....

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    I'm impressed. You on roids or something? Calm down there buddy. I guess you are some 12 year old who doesn't yet know how to talk to an adult. If you knew how to read he didn't blame anyone or cry. He asked "why" something happened. He didn't even bitch about it once you fucking dumbass. Cut down on the roids and the wanking dude and relax.
     
  20. Waxwingslain

    Waxwingslain oiseau rebelle

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    I recently saw a BJJ tournament match between two black belts. They hugged each other on the ground for almost ten minutes, neither one moving much. In the last ten seconds, one of them did something really insignificant - I couldn't catch it and I have an idea what I'm looking for - and won by advantage. Almost the same thing happened in the brown belt match before it. Seems harsh to think that those counted as a losses...

    Oh, and could everyone just chill on the flaming?
     

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