Social So a trump Moscow/data dump just happened

lol. Cohen was not the mastermind deal maker you guys are trying to convince yourself he was
No one is saying that he's a mastermind. Only that he was calling the Kremlin looking for someone who spoke English to try and make the deal for a Trump Tower in Moscow which suggests that Trump didn't have the connections to Putin or Russia that the left suggests.
Trump had been chasing his showcase Moscow Hotel for over a decade and fawning over Putin to try and get it done, so if he could have got it done easily he would have prior to the election. During the election he believed he would not win and wanted to make sure if he did not he could use that momentum to get the Hotel done.
So you admit that Trump couldn't have been a Russian stooge, and his only reason for fawning over Putin was trying to get the Trump Tower in Moscow done if he lost the election? This isn't treason or evidence of collusion though.
 
No one is saying that he's a mastermind. Only that he was calling the Kremlin looking for someone who spoke English to try and make the deal for a Trump Tower in Moscow which suggests that Trump didn't have the connections to Putin or Russia that the left suggests.

Cohen and Sater were still in discussions with key Russian officials and Oligarchs months into the campaign so I do not know who you are speaking about. Sater, for one, was extremely connected right up to the top levels in Moscow.


So you admit that Trump couldn't have been a Russian stooge,
Nope. that is not something you can take from what I wrote. You can desire something and be chasing something and become a stooge based on that want.

and his only reason for fawning over Putin was trying to get the Trump Tower in Moscow done if he lost the election?
I don't think Trump puts the hotel aside regardless. He has shown no interest in not furthering his personal interests as POTUS. But since he did not think it was likely he was going to win, he was certainly focused on his plan to use that as leverage to get the Tower built.

There is a high likelihood that since becoming POTUS his trying to block sanctions and failing and then doing everything to remove sanctions and succeeding is to curry favour with Russia and the Oligarchs. Remember the LOI Trump was given by VTB Bank in Russia to finance the building of his hotel was seen as a huge 'get' by Trump. Ohhhh accept for one thing. Oops. that Bank is under US sanctions and no US business can do any business with it.

Oh if only there was a way to lift those sanctions, then suddenly US companies would be free to do business with them. Hmmmm, how oh how, could those sanctions possibly be lifted. Hmmmmm

Dem pesky sanctions keep getting in the way of US businesses wanting to access Russian money.




This isn't treason or evidence of collusion though.
It certainly could be evidence of collusion. A quid pro quo where sanctions are lifted off certain oligarchs returning to them billions of dollars, the lifting of sanctions on Russian banks and assets, all by a group seeking financing from Russian oligarchs and banks. Collusion 101, son.
 
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But he abandoned the deal, and a deal for a Trump Tower in Moscow would have been easy if Trump had been a stooge of Putin's. You guys don't make any sense. You want to whine about a billionaire that deals in many different countries trying to make a deal in Russia, but can't get it done, while also claiming there's a secret alliance between the two and they are colluding together in an election.

I have no doubt that Putin preferred Trump to Clinton. Clinton was talking about creating a no fly zone in Syria, probably increased troops and war there in the ME. Trump was talking about better relations with Russia in his campaign. This isn't treason though.

The idea that Americans are so stupid that they were totally going to vote for Clinton but saw some tweet from 1 of the 20 accounts on Twitter that are accused of being Russian bots and decided to instead vote Trump is a fucking joke.
Trump was looking for a deal during the campaign, and lying about it repeatedly, stating he had no links to Russia. Of course the deal never got made. Putin isn't his buddy or looking for a business opportunity. He dangled that deal, and offered assistance in winning the Presidency, precisely to gain leverage over him. All this information that has been leaked was always known by the Russians who can probably provide their own proof and more. And all the while Trump was aware of that.

The President should be properly vetted. If he was committing tax fraud or laundering mob money before he ran for office, or accepted foreign assistance for his campaign, or is making foreign policy decisions based on personal gain, we should all know about it. There was one degree of separation between him and multiple convicted felons so this is no witch hunt.
 
I heard the science was settled guys. Its true. Trump is scientifically proven to be the worst creature to ever exist in the history of life. Trump single handedly ruined all the amazing work the Angels before him accomplished.
Wonk wonk wooonk. Maybe not but he is amoral and unscrupulous.
 
The President should be properly vetted. If he was committing tax fraud or laundering mob money before he ran for office, or accepted foreign assistance for his campaign, or is making foreign policy decisions based on personal gain, we should all know about it.
Here's a news flash. The President always makes deals that benefit themselves. Hell even Hillary who was Secretary of State at the time made a deal with Russians to sell uranium and gained millions from Russians towards her supposed nonprofit organization. This was known during the campaign as well. Same with Chinagate scandal in 96 where Dems accepted millions towards their campaigns including Presidential. Politicians make these corrupt deals all the time where they take money for quid pro quo. Still there is no evidence, you just assume there was some deal made between Trump and Putin based around a business deal. A business deal that ultimately fell through is evidence of nothing. It's a shame you can't see this.
 
Is he pursuing the deal right now as President? No. Then he abandoned it. I know the timeline is a bit fishy, what with Cohen admitting to lying about it and pursuing it after Trump wanted to drop it. But my point still stands that if Trump had been a Russian stooge he would have gotten the deal done easily. You wouldn't have Cohen calling the Kremlin asking for someone that speaks English so he could talk to them. This shows there was no real collusion or secret relationship between Trump and Putin.
There is no indication that Trump wanted to drop the deal and Cohen pursued it against his wishes. There was absolutely no chance of a development deal being made after Trump won. You have not offered up any exculpatory evidence at all.
 
There is no indication that Trump wanted to drop the deal and Cohen pursued it against his wishes. There was absolutely no chance of a development deal being made after Trump won. You have not offered up any exculpatory evidence at all.
You can't prove a negative. How am I suppose to prove something didn't happen?
 
You want to say that Trump only promoted better relations with Trump, so he could get a Trump Tower if he lost? Ok, maybe, but that's not illegal. That doesn't mean he's selling out his country after getting elected. Definitely doesn't point to any secret deal made between Trump and Putin that would lead to Trump winning the election. Trying to get a business deal done during a campaign is also not evidence of any collusion on a campaign level. Trump said if he would distance himself from the business so he could focus on the country which is what he did.
 
No one is saying that he's a mastermind. Only that he was calling the Kremlin looking for someone who spoke English to try and make the deal for a Trump Tower in Moscow which suggests that Trump didn't have the connections to Putin or Russia that the left suggests.

So you admit that Trump couldn't have been a Russian stooge, and his only reason for fawning over Putin was trying to get the Trump Tower in Moscow done if he lost the election? This isn't treason or evidence of collusion though.
At least Manafort and the Agalarovs had direct links to the Kremlin and Flynn to Turkey. Once Manafort was hired the campaign was compromised. Even if everyone else was following the law.
 
Trump was looking for a deal during the campaign, and lying about it repeatedly, stating he had no links to Russia. Of course the deal never got made. Putin isn't his buddy or looking for a business opportunity. He dangled that deal, and offered assistance in winning the Presidency, precisely to gain leverage over him. All this information that has been leaked was always known by the Russians who can probably provide their own proof and more. And all the while Trump was aware of that.

The President should be properly vetted. If he was committing tax fraud or laundering mob money before he ran for office, or accepted foreign assistance for his campaign, or is making foreign policy decisions based on personal gain, we should all know about it. There was one degree of separation between him and multiple convicted felons so this is no witch hunt.

Yup. even if ultimately you say Trump had the right to negotiate his hotel. There is nothing illegal in that. And you ignore his obligation to let the voters know that and use that information in their decision, you cannot get around that every time he lied about himself and his campaign having no contacts or business in Russia, he was then giving Putin and Russia power over him and those in the campaign. Russia and Putin know he was lying. They had the power to out and expose that lie if they were not getting what they want such as 'lifting of sanctions', 'anti NATO stance', 'discord amongst Western allies', ' strengthened alliance between Russia, Saudi and US', etc.

We know all of those things were on the Russian wish list, what we do not know is which of them, if any Trump took as marching orders in one of his many secret meetings with Putin.


Beyond that Trump is an unindicted co-conspirator in at least one guilty plea and finding already.
 
Here's a news flash. The President always makes deals that benefit themselves. Hell even Hillary who was Secretary of State at the time made a deal with Russians to sell uranium and gained millions from Russians towards her supposed nonprofit organization. This was known during the campaign as well. Same with Chinagate scandal in 96 where Dems accepted millions towards their campaigns including Presidential. Politicians make these corrupt deals all the time where they take money for quid pro quo. Still there is no evidence, you just assume there was some deal made between Trump and Putin based around a business deal. A business deal that ultimately fell through is evidence of nothing. It's a shame you can't see this.
What happened to drain the swamp? If there's no evidence of corruption then Mueller's report will indicate that.
 
You can't prove a negative. How am I suppose to prove something didn't happen?
You can't prove it, it's beyond your capability, let Mueller handle it. Just sit tight, hopefully with an open mind, and wait for his report.
 
You want to say that Trump only promoted better relations with Trump, so he could get a Trump Tower if he lost? Ok, maybe, but that's not illegal. That doesn't mean he's selling out his country after getting elected. Definitely doesn't point to any secret deal made between Trump and Putin that would lead to Trump winning the election. Trying to get a business deal done during a campaign is also not evidence of any collusion on a campaign level. Trump said if he would distance himself from the business so he could focus on the country which is what he did.
The whole deal is beside the point. It was never going to be made. It was the carrot they used to have incriminating evidence over Trump after he repeatedly claimed having no business ties to Russia during the campaign.

A female spy can seduce you enough to have pictures of you in a compromising situation without ever having intercourse. Those pictures will nevertheless make you just as susceptible to blackmail.
 
You can't prove it, it's beyond your capability, let Mueller handle it. Just sit tight, hopefully with an open mind, and wait for his report.
I already know what the report will say. There are some connections between Cohen and Manafort and some Russians, but no evidence that the campaign colluded with the government. The report will still strongly suspect there was collusion. It will be some middle of the road report that won't appease anyone and will not lead to Trump personally being involved or impeached. Probably not absolved either.
At least Manafort and the Agalarovs had direct links to the Kremlin and Flynn to Turkey. Once Manafort was hired the campaign was compromised. Even if everyone else was following the law.
I love when leftists bring up Manafort. He was prosecuted for crimes he committed while working with the Podestas in Ukraine. Funny how they walked free.
 
Lol @ these degenerates here.

Trumps innocent he just hangs out with a bad crowd!!!
 
Yup. even if ultimately you say Trump had the right to negotiate his hotel. There is nothing illegal in that. And you ignore his obligation to let the voters know that and use that information in their decision, you cannot get around that every time he lied about himself and his campaign having no contacts or business in Russia, he was then giving Putin and Russia power over him and those in the campaign. Russia and Putin know he was lying. They had the power to out and expose that lie if they were not getting what they want such as 'lifting of sanctions', 'anti NATO stance', 'discord amongst Western allies', ' strengthened alliance between Russia, Saudi and US', etc.

We know all of those things were on the Russian wish list, what we do not know is which of them, if any Trump took as marching orders in one of his many secret meetings with Putin.


Beyond that Trump is an unindicted co-conspirator in at least one guilty plea and finding already.
He's probably more at risk in the obstruction and campaign finance investigations but we don't have all the collusion evidence yet.
 
I already know what the report will say. There are some connections between Cohen and Manafort and some Russians, but no evidence that the campaign colluded with the government. The report will still strongly suspect there was collusion. It will be some middle of the road report that won't appease anyone and will not lead to Trump personally being involved or impeached. Probably not absolved either.

I love when leftists bring up Manafort. He was prosecuted for crimes he committed while working with the Podestas in Ukraine. Funny how they walked free.
You don't know what the report is going to say.
 
He's probably more at risk in the obstruction and campaign finance investigations but we don't have all the collusion evidence yet.
Yup. I've always thought that was his biggest exposure.

this guy goes back so far in the Trump org he was with Trumps dad long before Donald.
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Imagine your personal and corporate accountant not just 'co-operating' but being granted immunity for cooperating. You do not get immunity unless you are proving stuff of value.

Don Jr, Eric and Ivanka being Directors of the Corporations and Trump Foundation will be first in the cross hairs.

Mueller is zeroing in on Deutsche Bank and winning the subpoena war in court and if he gets full access to which private wealth clients were on the other side of the Deutsche Bank transactions with Trump that could be one of many key smoking guns that could lead to a full Rico break up of Trump Co and potentially the charging of his kids and/or him.

And Weisselberg will be a very credible witness on the stand. The guy who can corroborate what lesser credible guys like Cohen and others say.
 
It says 6 more years.
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Well its only been 18 months so far and that is a tiny amount of a time for an investigation like this so no one should be fussed.

Heck Ken Starr pursuing Bill Clinton and White Water took 4 years to get nothing but a consensual sexual affair and no charges on anything related to why he was brought in. Talk about a witch hunt.

Mueller's witch hunt in contrast has landed so many witches they may end up getting protected species status and as long as one leads to the next we should all be happy he is enacting Trumps campaign promise to drain that swamp!
 
Well its only been 18 months so far and that is a tiny amount of a time for an investigation like this so no one should be fussed.

Heck Ken Starr pursuing Bill Clinton and White Water took 4 years to get nothing but a consensual sexual affair and no charges on anything related to why he was brought in. Talk about a witch hunt.

Mueller's witch hunt in contrast has landed so many witches they may end up getting protected species status and as long as one leads to the next we should all be happy he is enacting Trumps campaign promise to drain that swamp!
It should be compared more to the Chinagate scandal since both involved investigations into foreign influence during a campaign.
It's been almost 2 years, and reported that it was wrapping up, so hopefully ti's done soon.

The Mueller investigation hasn't found any real witches though. It just appears to be normal political business, being prosecuted for lying or other crimes having nothing to do with the campaign. Cohen is tried for perjury and tax evasion. Manafort for his dealings in Ukraine with the Podestas years earlier, Flynn for lying to the FBI allegedly, Roger Stone allegedly having some sort of relationship with Wikileaks, which is somehow being portrayed as controlled by Russia.
 
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