Slow movements do not help any athlete in any sport

Indivdude said:
Well it starts with training the big toe my friend. Roman toe swings are the way forward for maximum strength and power.
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Absolutely. Big toe strength is the intangible factor in all athletic performance.
 
"Slow movements do not help any athlete in any sport"

This is a BS statement. Period.
 
First, a deadlift where you round your back, and do it with almost extended legs really isn't that great for most athletes. It's just lower back strength, which I personally find to be very important, but for a sprinter, I doubt doing a romanian deadlift with 600 pounds to be that important. And it's easy for people to the deadlift with this technique, or with wrong technique, because many actually pull more weight this way. If you do a slightly lighter deadlift, where you will keep position more similar to a clean pull, I doubt broz would say anything, since then it basically becomes what he probably trains, and you could even say that it's a partial squat.

Second, I doubt that by saying slow movements do not help any athlete in any sport he means this literally, he is emphasizing the fact that doing 1rep maxes with deadlifts which have different positioning than olympic pulls just isn't very efficient for athletes. I think what he means by the sentence is that for strength training, deep squats should be the main thing that makes you stronger, and you shouldn't bother doing deadlifts.
 
Bubble Boy said:
I'm not convinced that doing slower, but heavier, lifts in the off season would be a bad thing. It would enable an athelete to get considerabley stronger for speed lifting later (as the season approaches).
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This is a very good point. And one that I think Broz overlooked in his statement about all sports.

Tosa, in the context of his statement it is clear that he's talking about the 1RM deadlift and slow lifts in general, not just "lifting slowly".

HH, thanks for the contribution but do you mind elaborating?
 
I have no respect for anyone who spells boy with an "i".

Different sports/competitions require differnt types of training, slow movements have their place. I don't know if I would want an athlete attempting a slow snatch or box jump though.
 
If you make this statement about all sports, then you don't consider powerlifting to be a sport.
 
When you do a takedown there's a slow strenght component I think
 
VoodooPlata said:
If you make this statement about all sports, then you don't consider powerlifting to be a sport.
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I thought about this...then I wondered if Broz didn't consider powerlifting slow. I am not in his brain, but do you think he considered how fast would a powerlifter be moving if the bar was not loaded uber heavy (relative)?

But he used the "2-3 times a year" example...

It all seems contradictory to me, or maybe circular.
 
It's dumb. To get good at powerlifting, you must have good deadlifts. Sure, you can get good at deads without doing them but you will get better if you do.
 
IMO, power and speed are more important than strength in most sports. This doesn't mean that strength isn't important or that an athlete should avoid deadlifts. You can improve power, speed, and strength all at once.
 
Maybe someone more knowledgeable than myself would like to comment on this - some people seem to believe that doing heavy deadlifts actually makes you slower in general compared to not doing them. Is this a load of crap? I would think so, but I don't know everything...
 
VoodooPlata said:
Maybe someone more knowledgeable than myself would like to comment on this - some people seem to believe that doing heavy deadlifts actually makes you slower in general compared to not doing them. Is this a load of crap? I would think so, but I don't know everything...
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Load of fecal matter.
 
some people seem to believe that doing heavy deadlifts actually makes you slower in general compared to not doing them. Is this a load of crap? I would think so, but I don't know everything...
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What do you think Shane Hamman, a guy who has competitively deadlifted 738lbs would say about that?

 
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VoodooPlata said:
Maybe someone more knowledgeable than myself would like to comment on this - some people seem to believe that doing heavy deadlifts actually makes you slower in general compared to not doing them. Is this a load of crap? I would think so, but I don't know everything...
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It depends on what context he was saying that quote. In almost every context, it's a load of shit. A context where it may be apply would be to take an athlete who focuses on speed/power work and substitute out their speed/power work in favor of Deadlifts. It's not that the Deadlifts made him slower, but it's the reduction of speed and power work. This is where people throw out dumb examples. They'll look at someone who doesn't care about speed/power and use them as an example. There is no reason a program for an athlete who needs speed/power can't have DLs. Simply adding the lift will not make the athlete slower.
 
Oblivian said:
IMO, power and speed are more important than strength in most sports. This doesn't mean that strength isn't important or that an athlete should avoid deadlifts. You can improve power, speed, and strength all at once.
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Or, another way to say it, strength is a means, perhaps the primary means, by which speed and power can be improved in trained athletes.

Obviously, John Broz is a great coach, so I doubt he could have meant what he said literally. In my sports (BJJ/MMA/grappling), slow movements, and even "no movements" (isometric contractions) are a huge part of the game. Example of isometric? Think about maintaining posture against a tough opponent while you are in his guard. Hopefully, you'll get moving and won't be there forever, but the fact is, if you can't be terribly strong isometrically/with minimal movement, you're going to get broken down, wrapped up, submitted, etc.

It would be nice to do everything smoothly, quickly, and explosively, but the matter of the opponent makes that impossible. In grappling, you are frequently grinding away with all your might, and it is a simple physical reality that the maximum loads you can move explosively are considerably less than the maximum loads you can move, period. So, yes, maximal strength, slow movements/isometric movements come into play all the time in my sports.
 
Oblivian said:
It depends on what context he was saying that quote. In almost every context, it's a load of shit. A context where it may be apply would be to take an athlete who focuses on speed/power work and substitute out their speed/power work in favor of Deadlifts. It's not that the Deadlifts made him slower, but it's the reduction of speed and power work. This is where people throw out dumb examples. They'll look at someone who doesn't care about speed/power and use them as an example. There is no reason a program for an athlete who needs speed/power can't have DLs. Simply adding the lift will not make the athlete slower.
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Specifically for advanced and elite level olympic lifters, incorporating deadlifting into their program can make their snatch and their clean slower, regardless of whether they neglect snatch/clean training or not.
 
miaou said:
Specifically for advanced and elite level olympic lifters, incorporating deadlifting into their program can make their snatch and their clean slower, regardless of whether they neglect snatch/clean training or not.
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How?
 
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