International Silicon Don: US Industrial Tech, IP Theft & CCP's Post-COVID Punishment

[MVelsor]

@MVelsor looks very interesting; just don’t have the attention span at the moment; I bookmarked so I can get back here when I do

 

[ElKarlo]

Block, Block, Block. I agree, @bobgeese.

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/...a-backed-bid-for-chipmaker-over-security-risk

President Donald Trump blocked a Chinese-backed investor from buying Lattice Semiconductor Corp., casting a cloud over Chinese deals seeking U.S. security clearance and spurring a call for fairness from Beijing.

Trump acted on the recommendation of a multi-agency panel, the White House and the Treasury Department said Wednesday. The spurned buyer, Canyon Bridge Capital Partners LLC, is a private-equity firm backed by a Chinese state-owned asset manager.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...rras-sale-to-chinese-state-fund-idUSKCN1G703H

U.S. semiconductor testing company Xcerra Corp said on Thursday a U.S. national security panel had blocked its $580-million sale to a Chinese state-backed semiconductor investment fund, the latest such deal to be thwarted.

The acquisition of Xcerra by Hubei Xinyan was seen as a key test of the ability of Chinese firms to acquire U.S. technology assets, because the company does not make chips itself, but provides testing equipment used in making semiconductors.

The deal’s demise comes as the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States (CFIUS) has become increasingly skeptical of Chinese acquisitions of U.S. companies following the inauguration of U.S. President Donald Trump a year ago.

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/...age-with-broadcom-block-u-s-tech-not-for-sale

With his swift rejection of Broadcom Ltd.’s hostile takeover of Qualcomm Inc., President Donald Trump sent a clear signal to overseas investors: Any deal that could give China an edge in critical technology will be swatted down in the name of national security.

Although Broadcom is based in Singapore, China loomed large over the U.S. government’s fears about a foreign takeover of chipmaker Qualcomm. That’s because Qualcomm is locked in a head-to-head race with China’s Huawei Technologies Co. over which company will dominate the development of next-generation wireless technology.

"This decision hangs a huge ‘not-for-sale’ sign on just about every American semiconductor firm," said Scott Kennedy, who studies China’s economic policy at the Center for Strategic & International Studies in Washington. "A Chinese entity doesn’t need to be anywhere near a transaction now in semiconductors for the deal to be nixed."

... And on that:

Teardowns Reveal Qualcomm 5G Chips Beat Huawei’s On Size and Efficiency

While an iFixit teardown of Huawei’s Mate 20X suggested that the company’s first 5G smartphone was using fairly large, hot-running components to compete with Qualcomm’s Snapdragon chips, the engineering differences between the 5G rivals are now becoming clearer thanks to teardowns performed by IHS Markit.

In a report released today, the research firm says it made some interesting discoveries after disassembling six early 5G smartphones: Based on chip size, system design, and memory, Huawei rushed a comparatively inefficient solution to market, resulting in a device that’s larger, more expensive, and less energy efficient than it could have been.

Qualcomm is expected to be the only real alternative for carriers and OEMs interested in supporting millimeter wave 5G, as it’s already offering complete modem-to-antenna designs; its only multi-vendor rival, Taiwan-based MediaTek, has focused on non-millimeter wave parts.

Word. Broadcom I think was definitely trying to choose America in the trade war imho. You know my opinion on qcom and it's brilliance coupled with its greed and IP.

I'm glad Trump has gone after China and I have been cheering it the whole way. China is a bad player and shouldn't be allowed to trade nor travel freely.

 

[MVelsor]

I'm glad Trump has gone after China and I have been cheering it the whole way. China is a bad player and shouldn't be allowed to trade nor travel freely.

America Doesn't Produce Anything, They Said.



The fact remains that the semiconductors Huawei’s products run on cannot be made in high volume without US manufacturing equipment, and the US President can exercise emergency powers to determine who has access to that technology.

Contrary to some reports, Huawei cannot switch to alternative suppliers in Japan, Korea, Europe or China, because they too depend on US technology to make semiconductors. Any chip supplier that breaks ranks, including TSMC, would risk being cut off from the US equipment needed to make a living.

US suppliers like Applied Materials and Lam Research account for more than half of the global market for semiconductor manufacturing equipment while one company, ASML of the Netherlands, has a more than 20 percent share because of its dominance in lithography machines that print circuits onto chips, another technology invented in the US.

 

[MVelsor]

This appears to be bipartisan.

The Deep (Tech) State.

The Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States (CFIUS, commonly pronounced "Cifius" /ˈsɪfiəs/) is an inter-agency committee of the United States Government that reviews the national security implications of foreign investments in U.S. companies and operations. CFIUS includes representatives from 16 U.S. departments and agencies, including the Defense, State and Commerce departments, as well as the Department of Homeland Security.

CFIUS was first established by Executive Order 11858 in 1975, initially to study foreign investment. In the 1980s, concern over Japanese investment (and in particular a proposed purchase of Fairchild Semiconductor by Fujitsu) led Congress to pass the Exon–Florio Amendment in 1988, which empowered CFIUS to reject deals. CFIUS does not acknowledge which deals are under review, does not require the involvement of any of the parties of a deal, and does not publicly announce its findings.

 

[ElKarlo]

America Doesn't Produce Anything, They Said.



The fact remains that the semiconductors Huawei’s products run on cannot be made in high volume without US manufacturing equipment, and the US President can exercise emergency powers to determine who has access to that technology.

Contrary to some reports, Huawei cannot switch to alternative suppliers in Japan, Korea, Europe or China, because they too depend on US technology to make semiconductors. Any chip supplier that breaks ranks, including TSMC, would risk being cut off from the US equipment needed to make a living.

US suppliers like Applied Materials and Lam Research account for more than half of the global market for semiconductor manufacturing equipment while one company, ASML of the Netherlands, has a more than 20 percent share because of its dominance in lithography machines that print circuits onto chips, another technology invented in the US.

Good. Hopefully Trump pulls that trigger. Honestly change name needs to get on its knees and apologize for the Corona virus. They did, it was their irresponsibility, and Trump can leverage the ill will against China to get tethers to back him.
Glad that there is a chance to stop china's 5G plans, as Europe is pulling a peace in our time, nonsense with China and Russia

 

[Deleted member 159002]

Good. Hopefully Trump pulls that trigger. Honestly change name needs to get on its knees and apologize for the Corona virus. They did, it was their irresponsibility, and Trump can leverage the ill will against China to get tethers to back him.
Glad that there is a chance to stop china's 5G plans, as Europe is pulling a peace in our time, nonsense with China and Russia

Yesterday Trump called Xi his friend. Friend!

 

[ElKarlo]

Yesterday Trump called Xi his friend. Friend!

That BS talk does make me mad. Wish he'd go hardline and go all out on those tool bags. But he definitely has taken a harder line than others, especially looking at Europe

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

China wouldn't be choked off from semiconductors themselves and no modern economy can do without. That's also far too devastating of a revenue cut on US firms but it means letting telecoms such Huawei and ZTE survive. The export controls would be placed on the chipmakers' suppliers, two bit Chinese companies attempting to get off the ground and produce domestic chips thankfully aren't their primary base.

Edit: On related note, it's a massive cunt and many billions up front to set up and maintain a semiconductor fabrication plant. It requires tons of materials and machinery for the photolithography, etching, doping and dicing; some single pieces of equipment (i.e. steppers) run a cool $150 million a pop. A fab also runs through excess consumables (liquid nitrogen, hydrogen gas, solvents, etchants, acids) and they all have to be of extremely high purity.

And massive UPW systems on site. Some plants use and recycle more water in a day than a mid sized city

 

[MVelsor]

Yesterday Trump called Xi his friend. Friend!

That BS talk does make me mad. Wish he'd go hardline and go all out on those tool bags. But he definitely has taken a harder line than others, especially looking at Europe.

I'd still like an explanation for this kind of inexplicable cuckery motherfuckery. Why even bother triggering a Huawei collapse when another Chinese telecom actually found in national security breach was let off the hook so quickly?



The obvious thing that stands out is the impact it'd have on the revenue of US firms; that is the collateral damage to take into consideration. Huawei and ZTE are two of the biggest individual consumers of enterprise grade American tech. It would be more nuanced to let them live for now, but fold up the ground level Chinese efforts to produce the components and machinery they require to operate.

And massive UPW systems on site. Some plants use and recycle more water in a day than a mid sized city

Fab 42: Subtle

 

[ElKarlo]

I'd still like an explanation for this kind of inexplicable cuckery motherfuckery. Why even bother triggering a Huawei collapse when another Chinese telecom actually found in national security breach was let off the hook so quickly?



The obvious thing that stands out is the impact it'd have on the revenue of US firms; that is the collateral damage to take into consideration. Huawei and ZTE are two of the biggest individual consumers of enterprise grade American tech. It would be more nuanced to let them live for now, but fold up the ground level Chinese efforts to produce the components and machinery they require to operate.



Fab 42: Subtle

Got me. He really goes back and forth on it. ZTE should have been buried by now. But with our being more stringent on IP they are definitely more handicapped

 

[MVelsor]

Got me. He really goes back and forth on it. ZTE should have been buried by now. But with our being more stringent on IP they are definitely more handicapped

The indecisive half measures are maddening, either pull the fucking trigger or don't. The financial hit to US firms from forcing China's mega-corporations into collapse would be substantial, but they'll ultimately survive because the modern world requires their existence. It's kind of like energy in a way, and they're the most indispensable of all capital goods. It's nice being foremost producer and king.

 

[ElKarlo]

The indecisive half measures are maddening, either pull the fucking trigger or don't. The financial hit to US firms from forcing China's mega-corporations into collapse would be substantial, but they'll ultimately survive because the modern world requires their existence. It's kind of like energy in a way, and they're the most indispensable of all capital goods. It's nice being foremost producer and king.

Too bad Trump isn't bezos rich. Then he could literally pay them himself to wait it out. As it'd be a bad few quarters til someone else stepped up and took ZTEs spot. Then thing should be ok as the demand would still be there.

 

[Raptac]

Ill vote with my own dollars. Will not buy anything commie made. Will be a pain in the ass but fuck Chinese communist scum.

Hell I'm looking at costs to ship LG appliances made in Europe. Do your part people. Fuck communist scum!!!!!!

 

[ElKarlo]

Ill vote with my own dollars. Will not buy anything commie made. Will be a pain in the ass but fuck Chinese communist scum.

Hell I'm looking at costs to ship LG appliances made in Europe. Do your part people. Fuck communist scum!!!!!!

This. I stopped giving money to Walmart decades ago. Did the same with Amazon recently. Haven't bought much from China either. Try as hard as possible to not give those fuckery my money.
Pay a little more, but it goes to improving lives and the world. Instead of money going to the slavers that China is

 

[MVelsor]

Too bad Trump isn't bezos rich. Then he could literally pay them himself to wait it out. As it'd be a bad few quarters til someone else stepped up and took ZTEs spot. Then thing should be ok as the demand would still be there.

2019 wasn't the greatest year. The year-on-year for Samsung, SK Hynix and Micron is so ugly on account of DRAM hitting bust cycle. Intel doesn't dabble in that area, but still holds 95% market share for both personal computer and data center chips, bread-and-butter. The strain of maintaining independent end-to-end control over production as an IDM is incredible, I don't know how they still do it.

NOTE: Samsung was left off the PwC graphic in the OP because they aren't principally considered to be a semiconductor corp, but a general electronics hardware and equipment conglomerate.

 

[stav]

It’s interesting how we pass the buck and point to the boogeyman in the closet.

while we were busy trying to find increases in efficiency by decreasing labour overheads we were all to eager to give up our manufacturing.

We then engaged in an arms race that saw us invest trillions of dollars into the military industrial complex while China continued to invest in its own countries infrastructure.


Well fast forward and this is the result.

Yea they may be engaging in dirty play and behaviour but we handed them keys to the city now we want to complain about our own incompetence.

 

[MVelsor]

This. I stopped giving money to Walmart decades ago. Did the same with Amazon recently. Haven't bought much from China either. Try as hard as possible to not give those fuckery my money.
Pay a little more, but it goes to improving lives and the world. Instead of money going to the slavers that China is

On one note, China's average wages have increased by around 155% from what they were a decade ago. Many of the (non-semiconductor) US companies with manufacturing capacity aren't just there for the cheap labor but rather market access. There's various industries Beijing will only let foreign firms operate through joint ventures in which state-backed Chinese partners hold the majority stake. It's time for the exodus to Vietnam.

It’s interesting how we pass the buck and point to the boogeyman in the closet.

while we were busy trying to find increases in efficiency by decreasing labour overheads we were all to eager to give up our manufacturing.

We then engaged in an arms race that saw us invest trillions of dollars into the military industrial complex while China continued to invest in its own countries infrastructure.

Well fast forward and this is the result.

Yea they may be engaging in dirty play and behaviour but we handed them keys to the city now we want to complain about our own incompetence.

There's plenty of work to be found stateside.

 

[MVelsor]

Are we really worried about American manufacturing? Definitely, but not for the reasons people blindly believe. It would be nice if the US still produced a multitude of the consumer goods that are now imported en masse but it was never really a necessity or at the core of the country's strength (natural resources, heavy industry, capital goods). Old News.

Future of Manufacturing: The Jobs Are Here, But Where Are The People?

For more than two centuries, the manufacturing industry has adopted new technologies and provided new jobs for workers. Today, the industry is experiencing exciting and exponential change, as technologies such as artificial intelligence (AI), robotics, and Internet of Things (IoT) are rapidly changing the workplace. While some predicted that these new technologies would eliminate jobs, we have found the reverse—more jobs are actually being created.

The study reveals that the skills gap may leave an estimated 2.4 million positions unfilled between 2018 and 2028, with a potential economic impact of $2.5 trillion. Further, the study shows that the positions relating to digital talent, skilled production, and operational managers may be three times as difficult to fill in the next three years.

 

[MVelsor]

At this point I think China is well aware of this and will be putting an awful lot of emphasis on developing its own semiconductors.

"The fact that core technology is controlled by others is our greatest hidden danger.”

 

[MicroBrew]

Got me. He really goes back and forth on it. ZTE should have been buried by now. But with our being more stringent on IP they are definitely more handicapped

He flip-flops a lot. From downplaying the threat posed by Covid-19 to declaring a National Emergency to talking with North Korea then sucking up to Kim Jong Un.