Elections Should the US election be decided by electoral votes or popular votes?

[avenue94]

Some examples of countries that do hold direct elections for their heads of state: Afghanistan, Iran, Mexico, Russia, Turkey, Venezuela, Zimbabwe..

Many democracies do not directly elect heads of state but have more complicated processes than our electoral college.

My point is that federalism is the basis of the republic, a union of states. Why should states that would not be represented as intended remain in the union? It would no longer be the system as created.

You sure you understand the examples you are listing? Afghanistan and Mexico's presidents are directly elected, and all your other examples aren't democracies and hardly good examples to emulate exactly. If you want to talk what a parliamentrian system looks like, sure, but that's clearly not what you're discussing. And fyi, parliamentary systems are way simpler to understand than the EC: parties are voted on, parties internally pick their head of state. Done.

To answer your last point, the EC was never intended to artificially boost state representation. To claim that is retconning history. Systems change over time, there is no reason to be wed to an idea that is clearly detrimental to the health of a country civically.

 

[58miles]

Let's be honest the only reason Republicans are so in love with the EC is because it's the only way a Republican could get elected President at this point. The Republican Presidential candidate has only won the popular vote once since 1988. By the 2024 election there will be millions of voters who will be turning 18 and eligible to vote for the very first time who have never in their entire lifetimes witnessed a Republican Presidential candidate win the the popular vote. Tbh unless Biden accomplishes the impossible and is an even bigger disaster than Trump, the chances of the Republican candidate regardless of who it is in 2024 winning the popular vote is about zero. Winning the Presidency by way of the EC is the only chance they have.

Btw I always hear Republicans defend the EC by self righteously claiming that NY and California shouldn't have the power to decide the Presidency. Well the actual reality is that Wisconsin, Florida, Ohio and Michigan decide who the next President is right now. What so damn special about Ohio that they get to decide who the President is going to be? What's so damn special about Wisconsin, Florida and Michigan?

 

[Broken arrow]

I’m pretty sure America isn’t a “democracy”

it’s a “republic”

 

[58miles]

I’m pretty sure America isn’t a “democracy”

it’s a “republic”

I'm pretty sure Republicans like actually having a shot a winning the Presidency which is the only reason they defend the EC so zealously. A Presidential election decided by straight popular vote(like ever other elected office in the damn country) and the Republicans party being what it is today is absolutely screwed for the foreseeable future.

 

[bobgeese]

I read it, I still respectfully disagree. Maybe there's something I'm missing or not considering about the idea but at this stage I just don't think it's the solution. I think the fix to apathy and an uninformed populace is a deep dive and I'm not convinced that people being able to pass a test is going to lead to more desirable outcomes for the country

You're telling me after watching the last year in this country, where people burn down their neighbors homes and businesses over a myth of blacks being hunted by police, a year where people wouldn't even put on a mask to protect themselves and others, a year where people are still convinced Trump didn't actually lose the election,


You think we can fix these people?


<{cruzshake}>

 

[BROWNPRIDE]

Electoral is the fairest system since it makes sure everyone gets represented. Popular vote would mean big cities decide everything. I don’t won’t a place like San Francisco deciding what’s best for the country when they have a problem with people pooping in the streets.

It doesn't matter because your guy still lost!

 

[BROWNPRIDE]

You're telling me after watching the last year in this country, where people burn down their neighbors homes and businesses over a myth of blacks being hunted by police, a year where people wouldn't even put on a mask to protect themselves and others, a year where people are still convinced Trump didn't actually lose the election,


You think we can fix these people?


<{cruzshake}>

Lol trumptards

 

[Harmonica]

They get a say because it affects them.

Who gets to fly the plane they're on also affects them.

 

[bobgeese]

Lol trumptards

I assure you, the left is even worse. Have you seen the skyrocketing rate of violent crimes lately?


Let's just say it's not folks from Utah...

 

[danny23]

Electoral college is essential to protect the smaller states rights and keeps the bigger states in check. It prevents the big city states from getting too much of a say on rest of the country, keeps their influence within their states and prevents authoritarian imposing their will on smaller states. The founders of the USA were smart to put this into place and it protects democracy and state rights.

Most of these coastal cities states are extremely authoritarian and intolerant. If they’re allowed to decide what these smaller states should produce, how they should be run and how much taxes they should pay and on what they should be spent on (via gunpoint, threats and influence) then it’s a giant leap closer to killing democracy. If it’s by popular vote then might as well abolish the union as the states don’t matter anymore.

 

[58miles]

I assure you, the left is even worse. Have you seen the skyrocketing rate of violent crimes lately?


Let's just say it's not folks from Utah...

A crime increase in 2020 that might just have a lot to do with a damn once in a century pandemic occurring compared to crime rates hitting historic lows for well over 20 years but yep America's cities are just falling apart, they are nothing more than post apocalyptic war zones. Post apocalyptic warzones that just happen to provide a huge majority of America's gdp, culture, entertainment and jobs. Places where Republicans just happen to get the brakes beat off them.

 

[Harmonica]

Clearly you're incapable of grasping big ideas.

I wouldn't call it a big idea. It's little more than a common-sense premise upon which an (almost) ideal system of governance could be built. Good luck getting people to acknowledge and accept it, though. Knowing one's place is probably the first sign of a noble character - something our age is clueless about.

Whenever I talk to people about why democracy is detrimental to states' long-term health, they assume I belong to a social class that would benefit from such an exclusive system. Then I say how I would gladly give up all of my political rights if it would mean that all those who are less competent and responsible than me would lose them, too. At that point - they usually get frantic and respond with "Well, I am not giving up MY rights!" rants.

 

[58miles]

Electoral college is essential to protect the smaller states rights and keeps the bigger states in check. It prevents the big city states from getting too much of a say on rest of the country, keeps their influence within their states and prevents authoritarian imposing their will on smaller states. The founders of the USA were smart to put this into place and it protects democracy and state rights.

Most of these coastal cities states are extremely authoritarian and intolerant. If they’re allowed to decide what these smaller states should produce, how they should be run and how much taxes they should pay and on what they should be spent on (via gunpoint, threats and influence) then it’s a giant leap closer to killing democracy. If it’s by popular vote then might as well abolish the union as the states don’t matter anymore.

So you are saying that smaller states should have more of a say of which POTUS gets elected? How about this, instead of letting any state decide on who the POTUS is we just let the people decide, but we both know why you don't want that to happen don't we? It's for the same reason Republicans constantly feel the need to impose new voting restrictions, it's because Republicans would be screwed otherwise.

 

[bobgeese]

A crime increase in 2020 that might just have a lot to do with a damn once in a century pandemic .

How fucking naïve are you? It's a result of a lack of police presence on the streets you utter nincompoop.

Democrats simply refuse to enforce the law. And by the way, everyone of your dead black brothers and sisters has them to thank for it. 2 children were shot here last week. That makes 6 in just a few months.

But please, keep making excuses. It's really helping.

 

[danny23]

So you are saying that smaller states should have more of a say of which POTUS gets elected? How about this, instead of letting any state decide on who the POTUS is we just let the people decide, but we both know why you don't want that to happen don't we? It's for the same reason Republicans constantly feel the need to impose new voting restrictions, it's because Republicans would be screwed otherwise.

I didn’t say nor implied that. The electoral college is fair in the sense the states get a vote by their contributions to the economy. So smaller states already have lesser influence than the big city states on the elections. This is why California has more votes than Montana. If it was truly fair then all states get equal votes of one, both of us disagree on that.
If states didn’t have votes politicians would neglect smaller states in favour of getting votes from big cities. The electoral college forces them to take smaller states needs into account and into their policy or else they would lose their votes. This ensures more fairness, the needs of Midwest farmers will be different from the needs of the southern west oil or some coastal big city cesspit. Of course you’re authoritarian who wants everyone to comply to their ways and not have real fairness.

 

[sickc0d3r]

I didn’t say nor implied that. The electoral college is fair in the sense the states get a vote by their contributions to the economy. So smaller states already have lesser influence than the big city states on the elections. This is why California has more votes than Montana. If it was truly fair then all states get equal votes of one, both of us disagree on that.
If states didn’t have votes politicians would neglect smaller states in favour of getting votes from big cities. The electoral college forces them to take smaller states needs into account and into their policy or else they would lose their votes. This ensures more fairness, the needs of Midwest farmers will be different from the needs of the southern west oil or some coastal big city cesspit. Of course you’re authoritarian who wants everyone to comply to their ways and not have real fairness.

Montana has 3 ec votes and a population of about 1.069M. That’s roughly 1 ec vote per 333K people. Cali has 55 ec votes and 39.5M people. That’s roughly 1 ec vote per 718K people. That means a vote in Montana is worth more than twice as much as a vote in Cali. How exactly is that “fair”?
Also, no presidential candidates don’t worry about flyover states like Montana under the current system. All that matters are the swing states.

 

[grimballer]

Montana has 3 ec votes and a population of about 1.069M. That’s roughly 1 ec vote per 333K people. Cali has 55 ec votes and 39.5M people. That’s roughly 1 ec vote per 718K people. That means a vote in Montana is worth more than twice as much as a vote in Cali. How exactly is that “fair”?
Also, no presidential candidates don’t worry about flyover states like Montana under the current system. All that matters are the swing states.

its fair cause ppl in montana get to have a say and not get completely drowned by overpopulated state like california.

 

[grimballer]

So you are saying that smaller states should have more of a say of which POTUS gets elected? How about this, instead of letting any state decide on who the POTUS is we just let the people decide, but we both know why you don't want that to happen don't we? It's for the same reason Republicans constantly feel the need to impose new voting restrictions, it's because Republicans would be screwed otherwise.

why not abolish all the states and hace all the centralized power in dc?

 

[D3thr0n3d K1ng]

why not abolish all the states and hace all the centralized power in dc?

It would make more sense fur all states to split up into 50 separate countries that way they would have to fail or succeed on their own. But then smaller states wouldn't be able to leech off the economically bigger states.

 

[58miles]

its fair cause ppl in montana get to have a say and not get completely drowned by overpopulated state like california.

Please just try to be honest, we all know the reason why conservatives are now staunch defenders of the the EC and it doesn't have a damn thing to do with an overwhelming concern for states like Montana.

Btw you ever stop to think that maybe if the Republican party actually made an attempt to make more people vote for them then you would have to so head over heels in love with a completely ridiculous, outdated EC.