Elections Should the US election be decided by electoral votes or popular votes?

[bobgeese]

Well, his approval rating is very high. So if progressives and Democrats don't like him, who does? Maybe conservatives? I would encourage you to consider the possibility that your premise is false. And if you want to seriously understand why people think he's doing so well, you shouldn't be scared to read analysis of his concrete actions.

I would encourage you to consider that perhaps "approval rating" is a less accurate determiner of how well you're doing then "humanitarian crisis".

 

[Magooglie]

just looking out for ppl with obvious mental issues....

youre welcome!

While I applaud you trying to find common ground, I cannot say that I suffer from mental illness like you do. I do wish you would take care of yourself better as your inane posting here is not the move.

maybe its your country too

Please get the help you need. It's incredibly weird that all you can say is "maybe" all the time.

 

[avenue94]

who had more votes in last canadian elections?

dont try deflecting now.

also theres no reason for us to change its system in order to satisfy some new age hipster view on "democracy"

us has a good balance between proportional representation and individual states having a say in the process

Yeah, it was based on a popular vote. Voters vote for party, ideally that party gets a majority and forms government, if not, they form a coalition. That's what happened in 2019. Again, do you not understand how parliamentary systems work? Also, is it lost on you that people complaining about the election weren't calling for the electoral college, but for more democratic reforms?

And Jesus you are dense. The quality of democracy has advanced in 3 centuries, so let's take advantage of those gains. What part of that is hard to wrap your head around? We've already established you only like the EC because it keeps the GOP viable. Why lie about it with superfluous bullshit?

 

[bobgeese]

agreed haha, but I'm trying to not let his shit bring me down as much - so I don't particularly invest all of my time with politics. it's unhealthy in the end. as much as the world before us seemingly is heading for the worst, there are still plenty of things in life that eliminate such a notion from time to time. it's weird.

bob, you sound like the 'me', just a few months ago. not saying I've found peace, but don't dwell in the negatives for too long. it never made me feel good. I wouldn't want anyone for that matter, to be feeling that way either.


yeah I thought about that after I made my post. so many new cans of worms would open as a result. obviously, I haven't given this the thought it deserves.

It's too late for me. I OD'd on blackpills a long time ago. Humanities only hope is for the intelligent hard-working citizens to become a spacefaring people and leave behind the majority of barely functioning idiots stymieing progress.


Let them have the rock, the stars belong to us.

 

[grimballer]

Yeah, it was based on a popular vote. Voters vote for party, ideally that party gets a majority and forms government, if not, they form a coalition. That's what happened in 2019. Again, do you not understand how parliamentary systems work? Also, is it lost on you that people complaining about the election weren't calling for the electoral college, but for more democratic reforms?

you have no idea what you're talking about.

liberals in canada lost the popular vote to conservatives but got more seats....

again you ask for a country that doesn't have a popular vote.

stop deflecting

And Jesus you are dense. The quality of democracy has advanced in 3 centuries, so let's take advantage of those gains. What part of that is hard to wrap your head around? We've already established you only like the EC because it keeps the GOP viable. Why lie about it with superfluous bullshit?

says the guy talking outta his ass...

i guess then we already established you want to get rid off ec cause you know lefties don't respect us constitution or laws (especially immigration) and this way try to increase their voting bloc.

ec is a good way to keep radical lefties in check.

 

[avenue94]

you have no idea what you're talking about.

liberals in canada lost the popular vote to conservatives but got more seats....

again you ask for a country that doesn't have a popular vote.

stop deflecting



says the guy talking outta his ass...

i guess then we already established you want to get rid off ec cause you know lefties don't respect us constitution or laws (especially immigration) and this way try to increase their voting bloc.

ec is a good way to keep radical lefties in check.

Dear lord, do you not understand why the liberals won? It's a parliamentary system where voting is first past the post, like in the U.S. The solution to that is either PR or making every district the same population. But you wouldn't want either in the U.S. So what are you even complaining about? They use the popular vote, but you don't realize that because you don't understand how a parliamentary system works.

And nope that's not why I support abolishing the EC. Why do you assume that abolishing automatically benefits Democrats? It benefits whoever can appeal to more Americans. Which isn't partisan.

 

[Class 3 Steve]

I would have to side with the Popular Vote on this one. Seems in a democracy the larger number would be the most clear cut example of a Government by and for the people.

 

[grimballer]

While I applaud you trying to find common ground, I cannot say that I suffer from mental illness like you do. I do wish you would take care of yourself better as your inane posting here is not the move.



Please get the help you need. It's incredibly weird that all you can say is "maybe" all the time.

thats all figment of your immigration

just like how you think youre cool and heterosexual.

its not real.

 

[Magooglie]

thats all figment of your immigration

just like how you think youre cool and heterosexual.

its not real.

A figment of my "immigration." You've really lost it now. It's sad to see.

 

[grimballer]

Dear lord, do you not understand why the liberals won? It's a parliamentary system where voting is first past the post, like in the U.S. The solution to that is either PR or making every district the same population. But you wouldn't want either in the U.S. So what are you even complaining about? They use the popular vote, but you don't realize that because you don't understand how a parliamentary system works.

you cant be this dumb....

so you ask what other country doesn't use popular vote

i show you canada where liberals lost the popular vote, but still won majority of seats

and then you start rambling about parliamentary system and still argue how they use popular vote even after acknowledging they didnt get most votes in last election.

And nope that's not why I support abolishing the EC. Why do you assume that abolishing automatically benefits Democrats? It benefits whoever can appeal to more Americans. Which isn't partisan.

why you assume ec benefits republicans.

it benefits smaller states in decision making

 

[sickc0d3r]

not true cause then entire state of wyoming will have less votes than one district in california. right now it has same amount as 3 districts.

Yeah, and even fewer people!
By the way, a state doesn’t have an opinion, its people do. There are still 30 or 40% of people in WY that don’t agree with “the state”, whatever that means, and aren’t represented when voting for potus. Same is true for Cali, NY, etc.

well dc can't really be a state cause it was chosen as a "neutral capital". if pr becomes a state then sure they should get same amount of ec like any other state with their population size.

DC, outside of the capitol area, actually can be a state, and it very well might happen. Just takes a vote.

 

[avenue94]

you cant be this dumb....

so you ask what other country doesn't use popular vote

i show you canada where liberals lost the popular vote, but still won majority of seats

and then you start rambling about parliamentary system and still argue how they use popular vote even after acknowledging they didnt get most votes in last election.




why you assume ec benefits republicans.

it benefits smaller states in decision making

Yes, because without ranked choice or PR or equalized district populations (not to mention there will are strong third parties), there will be "wasted votes." But again, you don't want any of those policies in the U.S., right? Canada doesn't elect an executive (PM is not the power in a parliamentary system), they elect legislators, hence popular vote and a system entirely dissimilar from the EC.

And I assume the EC benefits any party that struggles to broaden its support and benefits from driving down turn out. Plutocratic policies tend to do that.

 

[spamking]

I don't care what we do moving forward . . . just stop acting like electing this crap was anything close to positive.

 

[grimballer]

Yes, because without ranked choice or PR or equalized district populations (not to mention there will are strong third parties), there will be "wasted votes." But again, you don't want any of those policies in the U.S., right? Canada doesn't elect an executive (PM is not the power in a parliamentary system), they elect legislators, hence popular vote and a system entirely dissimilar from the EC.

that's another issue...

in canada voters dont get to choose their party leader. hes chosen for them.

here however, you agree theres another western liberal democracy out there that dont use popular vote to determine the winner, right?

And I assume the EC benefits any party that struggles to broaden its support and benefits from driving down turn out. Plutocratic policies tend to do that.

ec benefits smaller states to have a voice, instead of being drowned by much larger states with overpopulated urban zones and whos leaders dont respect the laws or constitution.

 

[avenue94]

that's another issue...

in canada voters dont get to choose their party leader. hes chosen for them.

here however, you agree theres another western liberal democracy out there that dont use popular vote to determine the winner, right?




ec benefits smaller states to have a voice, instead of being drowned by much larger states with overpopulated urban zones and whos leaders dont respect the laws or constitution.

Nope, it's definitely the popular vote. It's just distorted by the lack of PR or equally sized districts. The latter is the same problem with a lot of U.S. elections. And parliamentary vs presidential is a personal preference. Both are valid, depending on if you favor legislative supremacy or not. Bottom line, the EC has far more wasted votes than most parliamentary systems that are fptp.

And again, the EC doesn't benefit smaller states. The winner takes all system does. To argue the Founders intended it to benefit smaller states is ahistorical.

 

[grimballer]

Yeah, and even fewer people!
By the way, a state doesn’t have an opinion, its people do. There are still 30 or 40% of people in WY that don’t agree with “the state”, whatever that means, and aren’t represented when voting for potus. Same is true for Cali, NY, etc.

ppl living the the state do...

thats called being part of a federation. concessions are made to form a union.

again it would make no sense for a state to be treated just like some district in decision making.

DC, outside of the capitol area, actually can be a state, and it very well might happen. Just takes a vote.

doubt it will go through.

dc is a federal district created after land was ceded by virginia and maryland to form a national capital.

if its no longer federal district, then the land probably goes back to virginia and maryland

 

[grimballer]

Nope, it's definitely the popular vote. It's just distorted by the lack of PR or equally sized districts. The latter is the same problem with a lot of U.S. elections. And parliamentary vs presidential is a personal preference. Both are valid, depending on if you favor legislative supremacy or not. Bottom line, the EC has far more wasted votes than most parliamentary systems that are fptp.

now youre just contradicting yourself and doubling down.

i just shows you last canadian election where one party got more seats without getting more votes and you still insist its "popular vote".

thats like saying ec is popular vote, its just distorted.

And again, the EC doesn't benefit smaller states. The winner takes all system does. To argue the Founders intended it to benefit smaller states is ahistorical.

well states get to decide how to allocate their ec which gives them more of a say, instead just treating them like another district of x amount of ppl.

 

[avenue94]

now youre just contradicting yourself and doubling down.

i just shows you last canadian election where one party got more seats without getting more votes and you still insist its "popular vote".

thats like saying ec is popular vote, its just distorted.



well states get to decide how to allocate their ec which gives them more of a say, instead just treating them like another district of x amount of ppl.

Yeah, the EC heavily distorts the popular vote. That's the main problem. Any election system distorts the popular vote, it's just a matter of how much and what measures you use to try and reduce distortions.

Do you want the U.S. to move to PR? Do you want districts to be equal sized in population? (We know your answer to this one). Those are the main ways of reducing distortion.

Put it this way, the Canadian system led to a PM without a majority of the popular vote twice in about 200 years. The U.S. system has done that twice in the past 2 decades alone. Clearly, one of those 2 systems uses the popular vote more efficiently and closely.

 

[grimballer]

Yeah, the EC heavily distorts the popular vote. That's the main problem. Any election system distorts the popular vote, it's just a matter of how much and what measures you use to try and reduce distortions.

Do you want the U.S. to move to PR? Do you want districts to be equal sized in population? (We know your answer to this one). Those are the main ways of reducing distortion.

Put it this way, the Canadian system led to a PM without a majority of the popular vote twice in about 200 years. The U.S. system has done that twice in the past 2 decades alone. Clearly, one of those 2 systems uses the popular vote more efficiently and closely.

im not advocating for either system

just saying that ec is better considering how us is set up. states have high degree of autonomy and that should be reflected in electoral process.

popular vote would simply not make sense and ec is a good balance between proportional representation in the house and equal representation in senate