Economy Should ENGLISH proficiency be a REQUIREMENT for migrants?

[EL CORINTHIAN]

Whatever you gotta tell yourself.


Been waiting for you to do that this entire time.


You've literally quoted my answer to this half a dozen times now. Read. It won't kill you to try it.

Yes, and your opinion is that having a bunch of non-primary language speaking immigrants doesn't effect your life because you can sign language with them just fine.

Just take the L and move it along.

 

[UberHere]

Nah. There are a significant portion of immigrants who do just fine without knowing English. Especially Mandarin Chinese speakers. They all have apps that are pretty easy to use to translate. Eventually they’ll be comfortable with it. Until then, obviously their employment opportunities would be limited but not nonexistent by any means.

 

[UberHere]

I’ve argued with so many over the incredibly basic concept of national identity. It boggles my mind that people believe that there is no such thing.

In the USA there really isn’t. Here it’s regional or local identities. The last time we had any sense of national identity was after 9/11, but that got ixnayed pretty quickly. But they do exist in many other countries.

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

Yes, and your opinion is that having a bunch of non-primary language speaking immigrants doesn't effect your life because you can sign language with them just fine.

You're really just incapable of actually responding to what I said and admitting you're wrong lol. Sad way to live your life man.

Just take the L and move it along.

I hope you learn to take your own advice

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

Nah. There are a significant portion of immigrants who do just fine without knowing English. Especially Mandarin Chinese speakers. They all have apps that are pretty easy to use to translate. Eventually they’ll be comfortable with it. Until then, obviously their employment opportunities would be limited but not nonexistent by any means.

Pretty common sense take

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

In the USA there really isn’t. Here it’s regional or local identities. The last time we had any sense of national identity was after 9/11, but that got ixnayed pretty quickly. But they do exist in many other countries.

I disagree to an extent. I think regional identity is more prominent than national identity. However I do not agree that we do not have a national identity

 

[SurferH2O]

If they ever want a driver's license... YES.

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

If they ever want a driver's license... YES.

Thats not a requirment for a license. Theres schools and test for non English speaking drivers. You're only required if you want full citizenship. Which is reasonable

 

[avenue94]

A lot of English speakers living abroad don't speak the native language

Those are different, those are expats, not immigrants. /s

 

[EL CORINTHIAN]

You're really just incapable of actually responding to what I said and admitting you're wrong lol. Sad way to live your life man.

I hope you learn to take your own advice

Exhibit A:

Yes, without a question. So tired of these stories of people living in insular, Diaspora communities for decades without speaking a single word of English. It's ridiculous.

Because it has zero effect on mine or your life.

See above.

Random people's inability to speak English doesn't have a negative effect on my community. There are several businesses in my area that have little to nonenglish speaking staff and they still get lots of English speaking customers? Why, you ask? Because they still provide the service you need and contribute to the community.

And if people are staying in their own communities, why the hell shouldn't they speak their perfered language? If I run a business in the Hispanic part of town, I'm gonna expect to hear some Spanish.

Going "I'm tired of people I'll never interact with speaking a language I refuse to learn" is an idiotic way to inform immigration policy.

Having a supportive community that will help you get by is a good thing not a bad thing lol. They are not relegated to these communities either. They choose to stay in them because there is a support system. And as I explained earlier many in these communities have no issue starting businesses in English-speaking areas. And those that can't, start one within their communities which is a great thing because it makes them less reliant on big stores and super chains.

Lol I interact with heavily Hispanic communities regularly. I just dont cry about not being able to speak Spanish.

Pathetic race baiting over made up shit lol.

"National cohesion" does not require everyone to speak the same language. As stated many times already, there are countless businesses run by non English speakers that have English speaking clients and they do very well for themselves. And these communities are not socially isolated. These people get involved in local events like anyone else. They bring in their cultural and businesses to integrate into whats already there. Thats how it has been everywhere I've lived.

You're trying to project this false narrative onto others instead of actually taking in whats being said.

You do not think immigrants need to speak the primary language. Like, where's the miscommunication happening here?

 

[Possum Jenkins]

Economic and political immigrants throughout history have rarely learned to speak English... in fact Central and South American economic immigrants speak it much more commonly than the European immigrants of yesteryear.

Another fact is that their kids end up speaking fluently and assimilate into American culture with ease.

Exactly.

93% of 2nd generation Americans (1st generation are the foreign-born) can speak English fluently

And this was 20+ years ago. I can't find it but I remember reading that it's closer to 95% today.

In other words, STFU about hearing other languages. Immigrant/minority communities have existed since cities have existed.

 

[avenue94]

Thats not a requirment for a license. Theres schools and test for non English speaking drivers. You're only required if you want full citizenship. Which is reasonable

Not to mention a lot of the world accepts an international driving permit, just don't ask why Americans should be allowed to write scooters in Bangkok with no local language mastery but immigrants to the US can't do the same.

 

[avenue94]

You do not think immigrants need to speak the primary language. Like, where's the miscommunication happening here?

Assuming you've been to the US, what insular diaspora communities that don't learn English did you spend time with?

What was your experience like?

 

[EL CORINTHIAN]

Assuming you've been to the US, what insular diaspora communities that don't learn English did you spend time with?

What was your experience like?

I'm in Canada and speaking from my experience here but I assume it's very similar despite the distinction between mosaic vs melting pot visions of multiculturalism as they usually manifest themselves in similar ways looking with these segments or pockets within regions that have very insular, closed off communities that run along ethno-linguistic lines.

There are a whole host of issues that come as a result of that that I already touched on in this thread.

 

[Possum Jenkins]

There are so many bilingual and non English speaking communities in the US. I know people who've been here for many years and didn't learn English until they absolutely had to for a specific job. I taught kids who's parents only spoke their native language but made their kids learn English.

It's 1,000% normal for people to create communities of people like them when living in foreign countries.

American and European "expat communities" (which means well-off, usually white immigrants) in SE Asia and Latin America are a perfect example of this. You hear a lot about how they hang around each other to speak the same language and share in their own culture. Some of them pick up a few phrases in the local language but few are fluent.

So if rich Westerners tend to stick around each other and speak their own language in communities of a few hundred, why wouldn't poorer non-Westerners do same when they have communities of tens or hundreds of thousands?

 

[Rational Poster]

No, Freedom of Speech includes the freedom to speak whatever language you want.

 

[avenue94]

I'm in Canada and speaking from my experience here but I assume it's very similar despite the distinction between mosaic vs melting pot visions of multiculturalism as they usually manifest themselves in similar ways looking with these segments or pockets within regions that have very insular, closed off communities that run along ethno-linguistic lines.

There are a whole host of issues that come as a result of that that I already touched on in this thread.

Why would it be very similar? America has a much longer history of immigrants settling and also successfully integrating over time.

A white dude in Huntington Park would get by just fine, and it's not like folks who live there only stay in Huntington Park.

So you've never even stepped food in the US or you just haven't spent time in an immigrant enclave here?

 

[AWilder]

I'm in Canada and speaking from my experience here but I assume it's very similar despite the distinction between mosaic vs melting pot visions of multiculturalism as they usually manifest themselves in similar ways looking with these segments or pockets within regions that have very insular, closed off communities that run along ethno-linguistic lines.

There are a whole host of issues that come as a result of that that I already touched on in this thread.

You didn't bring up any issues, you made a bunch of strawmen to argue against and claimed anyone who doesn't agree with you hates immigrants. Please continue your meltdown

 

[EL CORINTHIAN]

You didn't bring up any issues, you made a bunch of strawmen to argue against and claimed anyone who doesn't agree with you hates immigrants. Please continue your meltdown

What? Where did I say that?

Why would it be very similar? America has a much longer history of immigrants settling and also successfully integrating over time.

A white dude in Huntington Park would get by just fine, and it's not like folks who live there only stay in Huntington Park.

So you've never even stepped food in the US or you just haven't spent time in an immigrant enclave here?

Why wouldn't it be similar? Besides the length of the project, what unique set of circumstances do you think America has that are different than Canada with newly arrived immigrants in the contemporary landscape?

Mind you, I have stepped foot in the US and it's basically become your MO to point out that these conversations have to pass an American lense to be validated and it's getting tiring since this is a conversation that is ongoing in the entire western world.

 

[Rob Battisti]

In the USA there really isn’t. Here it’s regional or local identities. The last time we had any sense of national identity was after 9/11, but that got ixnayed pretty quickly. But they do exist in many other countries.

Totally disagree. Liberty, individualism and obstinance and opportunity are ubiquitous to all of America. Perhaps they are eroding, which is something I’d argue.

Sure, regions have their own identities too, but these are ingrained throughout America.