shogun gets BJJ BB from shembri

[S.D.Force]

Uh, not that he doesn't deserve a black belt.....But he gets one for KO'ing an opponent?????

Seriously how political can you get. Typical black belt promotion. If you fight and if you win big titles and get a big name, the instructors LOVE to promote you ASAP (See Frank Mir).

So you are saying he didn't deserve to have it before the fight, but he deserves a Jiu Jitsu black belt NOW b/c he Ko'd his opponent. What was the defining moment that made the Arona fight the actual "straw that broke the camels back", so to speak.....Why would Nino step up at this exact moment in time and say.....NOW he deserves it?!.....Kind of messed up if you ask me... And too typical off black belt promotions, and politics in the Gracie family and fighting today.

Rua clearly deserved the BB, BEFORE the fight. His knowledge in no way improved to a higher level during the fight. Now if there were a black belt given in general MMA fighting, I would say yes, that would be a good time to promote a fighter to BB.....But jiu jitsu is ground fighting primarily....NOT MMA fighting. And they are NOT the same, even though the Gracies would have you believe this (for marketing purposes)

 

[Calibur]

If he had got his BB after having to go through several brown belts on the mat at CB during gi training, I wouldn't be doubting his accomplishment. The fact he got it in his locker room after the GP suggests to me it had more to do with that than his mat prowess.

A lot of BJJers get their belts after big tournaments. You know thats not uncommon. The Pride GP is the biggest tourny that Shogun will win for a while. i still see nothing wrong with him being awarded the belt after the tourny.

 

[Jarzi]

Just cause he doesn't always go for submissions and spends less time on the ground, does that mean that he can't submit people? People are saying how he shouldn't get his BB based on his MMA fights, but they're judging his BJJ skills based on his MMA fights. I doubt anyone here has seen him train just grappling. If Nino and Sperry say he's good, I'm going to trust them on this one.

Bingo!

They should tell Nino that he's not capable of evaluating wether Shogun is a BB or not

 

[kimurense]

c'mon!!

how many guys has belfort submited in MMA???? does anyone here question his BB

 

[reddevil]

I don't know if you jokers know but Shogun has done well and won comps in Brazil as a brown. That's more than most american black belts have ever accomplished facing only american fighters. How many people win the Mundials or Pan ams? Usually the same group of guys rotate around. Many brazillian black belts have never won a Mundial I would say 99% have not. So that should not be held as a merit to get your BB. Winning a tournament at your level in Brazil certainly should be and Rua has done that unlike Silva.

 

[Hybrid_Killer]

Uh, not that he doesn't deserve a black belt.....But he gets one for KO'ing an opponent?????

Seriously how political can you get. Typical black belt promotion. If you fight and if you win big titles and get a big name, the instructors LOVE to promote you ASAP (See Frank Mir).

So you are saying he didn't deserve to have it before the fight, but he deserves a Jiu Jitsu black belt NOW b/c he Ko'd his opponent. What was the defining moment that made the Arona fight the actual "straw that broke the camels back", so to speak.....Why would Nino step up at this exact moment in time and say.....NOW he deserves it?!.....Kind of messed up if you ask me... And too typical off black belt promotions, and politics in the Gracie family and fighting today.

Rua clearly deserved the BB, BEFORE the fight. His knowledge in no way improved to a higher level during the fight. Now if there were a black belt given in general MMA fighting, I would say yes, that would be a good time to promote a fighter to BB.....But jiu jitsu is ground fighting primarily....NOT MMA fighting. And they are NOT the same, even though the Gracies would have you believe this (for marketing purposes)

Or maybe Nino thought that having won the GP, it would be a good time to give him the BB he deserved for a long time? Imagine the glory, GP champ AND BB in BJJ in one night.

Until we get footage of Shogun getting tapped by noobs then I'll say its fair, esp since people have been saying he was brown before and competed regularly. I mean he started JJ at 16 its not like he hasn't been doing it for ages.

 

[Foolkiller]

c'mon!!

how many guys has belfort submited in MMA???? does anyone here question his BB

Given what Carlson Sr said about him at a seminar a few years back, yes.

 

[Foolkiller]

A lot of BJJers get their belts after big tournaments. You know thats not uncommon. The Pride GP is the biggest tourny that Shogun will win for a while. i still see nothing wrong with him being awarded the belt after the tourny.

If he got his belt after winning a BJJ tournament, I wouldn't care. If he got his belt after tapping the rest of the brown belts at CB, I wouldn't care. However being given a BJJ black belt after you win an MMA tournament makes no sense. It'd be like giving a K-1 fighter the WBO belt for finishing the K-1 GP.

 

[DiRtY BoB]

ur wrong as i see his BJJ is solid he outgrappled the ADCC champ in thier fight and has been slick on the ground for quite some time,...

he has shown, thoughs application of bjj to aletudo/ chuteboxe style fighting that he does to have great jitz understanding and knowlege

 

[Foolkiller]

ur wrong as i see his BJJ is solid he outgrappled the ADCC champ in thier fight and has been slick on the ground for quite some time,...

he has shown, thoughs application of bjj to aletudo/ chuteboxe style fighting that he does to have great jitz understanding and knowlege

He outgrappled a ADCC champ who was injured from the fight earlier that evening. Christ, is no one getting this? Arona got hurt in the Wand fight. he was not 100%. He didn't turn up for the BTT Barcelona camp even though they had bought him a ticket because he was banged up from the GP. And again, Matt Hughes outgrappled Castillo and Verissimo in MMA, does that mean he deserves his BJJ black belt? Karo Parisyan outgrappled Frank Trigg in MMA, does that mean he should be given a judo black belt? Genki Sudo and Kid Yamamoto have KO'd Royler Gracie, should they be BJJ black belts?

 

[judogido]

It become more an argument about the standard set for attaining a BJJ black belt. I personally think BJJ could benefit from compulsory "gradings" for each level so that an in-depth knowledge of techniques should be shown as well as simply being a "strong' fighter.

But then I'm a judoka so perhaps it is just because a standardised syllabus and gradings are what I am used to and these gradings are as much subject to the individual standards set by the instructor as getting promoted at seminars while rolling. However, at least for BB we have to go before an official grading panel of a number of senior dan grades and demonstrate knowledge and skill AS WELL as having to get competition "points".

Otherwise the risk becomes that a BJJ black could become more of an "honorary" award?? which is not right. Not really the case for Shogun - he did pay his dues in winning BJJ comps as a brown, so he's got skills, but it shouldnt be "Wow, you're a tough guy ... here, have a BJJ Black belt."

 

[Matt Thornton]

BB means you know almost every fucking detail about JJ, not that you pull an omoplata in a vale-tudo fight.

Actually, you have it the other way around man. Having the black belt isn't exactly having more knowledge. By the time you're ready for a purple belt, you basically know the moves of BJJ. Remember that BJJ is an aliveness-based martial art. Skills in BJJ don't come from knowledge of moves; they come from the skills you get from constant sparring. While knowing moves certainly makes a big difference, "knowing almost every fucking detail" and actually being able to apply it are two different things; the latter being the more important of the two.

You can study every instructional on the market, and learn every BJJ move, and even be up-to-date with the latest techniques, and I guarantee you that knowledge of these alone will not get you a black belt. The black belt means you can actually use the stuff you know.

 

[Chute Stomp]

He outgrappled a ADCC champ who was injured from the fight earlier that evening. Christ, is no one getting this? Arona got hurt in the Wand fight. he was not 100%. He didn't turn up for the BTT Barcelona camp even though they had bought him a ticket because he was banged up from the GP. And again, Matt Hughes outgrappled Castillo and Verissimo in MMA, does that mean he deserves his BJJ black belt? Karo Parisyan outgrappled Frank Trigg in MMA, does that mean he should be given a judo black belt? Genki Sudo and Kid Yamamoto have KO'd Royler Gracie, should they be BJJ black belts?

Arona was injured earlier? According to who? Arona??? Arona looked fresher than Shogun going into their fight. And he had a longer time to recover than Shogun. Shogun fought a mini war, Arona's fight though longer, was tame in comparison. Looked to me as though Arona just got totally overwelmed and blown away. When they clinched Shogun looked surprisingly more physically dominant.

Ive heard Wandy comment about Shogun's BJJ before. I think Wandy called it amazing or something. This was before the GP. I think he's the real deal. He did display his skills. He's grappled with Lil Nog, escaped Overeems guilotine that had won Euro ADCC and subbed Vitor and then got a slick omaplata on Arona before knocking him out. If he doesn't show these skills then he loses. Hell yes he deserves it. He's training with a couple of blackbelts pretty much everyday. 8 years to black for him is hardly undeserving.

 

[Foolkiller]

Arona was injured earlier? According to who? Arona??? Arona looked fresher than Shogun going into their fight. And he had a longer time to recover than Shogun. Shogun fought a mini war, Arona's fight though longer, was tame in comparison. Looked to me as though Arona just got totally overwelmed and blown away. When they clinched Shogun looked surprisingly more physically dominant.

According to Mario Sperry who was in his corner and locker room before and after both fights that night. Wand messed up his rib in the last minute of the fight. You don't have to look much further than Shgun vs Rampage to see how fucked up ribs can impede you in a fight regardless of your will to continue.

 

[DiRtY BoB]

it comes back to this what more useful a grappler who good with grqappling rules or a grappler whos good with no ruless...... i belive the latter even the old school gracies will tellu the art was never about sport... so i belive that answers the question

would u rather see a bjj bb who goes out n get owned like saulo ribero, joe morriera, schembri, would u raather that?

 

[Cynic]

Congrats to Shogun.

 

[victor hung]

I think it's hard to say without watching Shogun do a pure grappling match. I always just figured guys from Chute Boxe used submissions less cause they enjoyed knocking the snot out of their opponents. If he was winning grappling matches as a brown belt and has been training jiu jitsu for over 8 years... I don't feel like there is a need to question his black belt. Is it weird that he got it after winning the GP? Maybe. I doubt if it is completely undeserved though. Just my opinion.

 

[Foolkiller]

I'm not questioning his abilities, but the timing does seem a little odd. After he'd won a BJJ tourney? Cool. After he won an MMA tournament by KOs and decisions? Hmmm...

 

[Waxwingslain]

It's not like he didn't grapple at all in his matches.

The BJJ belt system is pretty arbitrary at times. It's up to Shogun to live up to the belt now.

 

[kimurense]

And again, Matt Hughes outgrappled Castillo and Verissimo in MMA, does that mean he deserves his BJJ black belt?QUOTE]
in charuto's behalf I have to say that hughes did'nt outgrapple him, fatigue did. in the 1st and 2nd round I would say verissimo had the upperhand...

as for belfort. I might be mistaken but did'nt carlson give him the BB?!? what is he saying now? when he was his golden boy he was ok, but now he isn't? I would like to know more about this. if you don't want to talk about this on the forum PM me if you could. thanks

I still say congrats to shogun. if shembri awards a BB he knows what he is doing. he is one of the best bjjers of all time