shogun gets BJJ BB from shembri

[naskwon14g]

He showed mad BJJ skillz. He is really comfortable on his back. Great guard, great escapes, great sweeps, awesome guard passing...

It is really obvious that Shogun is a BJJer... a really good one.

 

[Kuroi Kaze]

i do train BJJ and I call bullshit.

I'd love to see Shogun go to ADCC with his "Black Belt" along with Wand.

They'd get punk'd in seconds.

 

[Eric O]

PPL saying that Shogun would batter most BJJ black belts justifies him receiving a Black belt are crazy.

That's like saying Mark Coleman would mall and Boxing/kickboxing champion in a real fight so give him thier belt. lol


Shogun does have descent BJJ skills. He alwasy had. Far better than Silva anyhow.

 

[Foolkiller]

Like I said, some people think that the highest level of BJJ ability is to consistently win Vale Tudo matches. As long as said competitor is affiliated with a BJJ school, how he goes about winning is irrelevant.

Remember that although BJJ is heavily ground-oriented many old-school BJJ

 

[Deleted member 3729]

To be fair, Arona nearly lindlpwning himself played a big part in Shogun almost getting that omoplata.

 

[aaron_mag]

You defeat your own argument. A judo black belt THAT SUBMITS his opponents obviously displays serious grappling skills to tap other black belts. SHOGUN DID NOT TAP OUT ANYONE, let alone any black belts. He did not tap little Nog nor did he tap out Arona. He decisioned little Nog and ALMOST got an omoplata on an injured Arona who had already fought once that night. One close submission does not make him a black belt. Does he deserve a black belt in kickboxing under the Chute Boxe system for KOing people? Yes. Does he deserve a BJJ black belt? I do not think he does.

The highest level of BJJ is to tap out other accomplished and recognised black belts and win the Mundials. To win in vale tudo means you are a good vale tudo fighter, not necessarily a good grappler. By your logic Matt Hughes should be a BJJ black belt because he has beat BJJ black belts in MMA, however if he were to compete in BJJ in a gi against the same people chances are he'd get choked out.

There is a thread of Chutebox training BJJ with gis:

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/showthread.php?t=288134

(Sakubaru is in them)

So obviously he trains regularly. Does that make it more justified, or do you think being active in BJJ tournaments should be a requirement?

 

[Sherdog_Mutt]

All I wanted to add was that Shogun started training BJJ as a kid... before he ever joined chute boxe and started training muay thai.

 

[migo**]

Shogun was competing in BJJ tournaments before he joined Chute Boxe. Mario Sperry said Shogun has really good BJJ, and Schembri has been with Chute Boxe for quite a while, so he knows Shogun's level. Shogun deserves the black belt, he was a brown before that so it's not like it's a huge shock.

 

[AndrewI2000]

Just cause he doesn't always go for submissions and spends less time on the ground, does that mean that he can't submit people? People are saying how he shouldn't get his BB based on his MMA fights, but they're judging his BJJ skills based on his MMA fights. I doubt anyone here has seen him train just grappling. If Nino and Sperry say he's good, I'm going to trust them on this one.

 

[wOg]

That's what I was thinking. The same thing happens at Judo tournaments occasionally: a guy has demonstrated everything he needs to in the gym, and then he goes out and beats the best black belts in his division; thus he's presented with his black belt at the tournament, usually at the same time he's awarded the gold medal on the podium. I think it's a classy way to go about it.

I agree with this post. Props to Shogun. He's on a Liddell-like roll in his career. More power to him.

 

[Foolkiller]

Sperry has a few things to say about Shogun and while does feel he has good sub defense and has tons of potential, he didn't say anything about his sub abilities to me. I won't post what was said as I do not want to fighter bash.

Considering he got his BB IN THE LOCKER ROOM AFTER THE GP, I think it is safe to say he got his belt due to his GP win rather than his mat ability in the gi, much like Carlos Gracie Sr gave Wand his for his GP win.

 

[judogido]

.... is it so that BJJ can claim another "BJJ Champion" in MA? Maybe too cynical on my part. I'm sure the guy must be great BJJ technician and know the vast range of techniques, variations and intricacies of BJJ that a Black Belt ought to know, rather than just a talented "fighter" in general.

 

[Tegelsten]

Congrats on jumping to conclusions..

Like it was said above, he was a brown before the GP and has won the brazilian jiu jitsu championships, he competed actively in bjj before moving back to curitiba and joining his brother at the chute boxe academy.

 

[Foolkiller]

If he had got his BB after having to go through several brown belts on the mat at CB during gi training, I wouldn't be doubting his accomplishment. The fact he got it in his locker room after the GP suggests to me it had more to do with that than his mat prowess.

 

[Tegelsten]

Not all clubs have sparring with their promotions.. although i dont know whats the case with chute boxe.

 

[apapen]

 

[judogido]

Congrats on jumping to conclusions..

Like it was said above, he was a brown before the GP and has won the brazilian jiu jitsu championships, he competed actively in bjj before moving back to curitiba and joining his brother at the chute boxe academy.

Fair enough. If he was already a brown he'd already know his stuff so earning a black through demonstrated ability of BJJ at that level is not the same as an "honorary" BB just for being a good fighter in general.

I guess he deserves it, then.

 

[Bubble Boy]

It just seems silly to me that that the reigning Pride GP Champion, who had a brown belt going into the tournament, faced some of the best all around NHB grapplers in the world, and was awarded his belt by Shembri, is seen as not deserving a black belt in BJJ. At some point it just seems that maybe stepping back and looking at the end result is a reasonable route to go, and that clinging so tightly to rigid parameters in an effort to hold on to fantastic expectations of the art is a bit grandiose. He may or may not get his ass handed to at ADCC (or Mundial), but so would plenty of talented black belts. Such unrealistic high expectations.

 

[Walt Ruckus]

It's funny how people jump into conclusions here. Even people with moderator status. Who are you to say how good Shogun's jiu-jitsu is? He obviously showed great grappling ability in his fights against Nogueira and Arona (who isn't known for his submission abilities either and no one questions his blackbelt). It's just too hasty to say that he doesn't deserve it because he would get tooled in ADCC. That's fucking ridiculous. Many competent jiu-jitsu blackbelts would get tooled in ADCC. People are forgetting that jiu-jitsu has three different aspects: self defence, sport and vale tudo. It has been like this for decades. Shogun is of course training jiu-jitsu for vale tudo type of matches, not purely sport. And I think that is a hell of a lot closer to the art's roots than practicing and competing only in pure sport events.

Well done Shogun!

 

[Calibur]

Arona got his ribs fucked up in the last minute of the Wand fight and was not 100% against Shogun. He didn't go to the ground with Minotauro for very long at any point, adopting more of a Fedor vs Nog gameplan. I think this is much like Wand getting his black belt for KOing and decisioning guys for 4 years, it's merely watering down BJJ by giving black belts to average grapplers with great striking who are in prominent positions in MMA. It's bullshit. I don't deny both Shogun and Wand are competent grapplers with great striking, but great grapplers with great striking? No.

Since you ve obviously rolled with Silva and Shogun in a gi much more than any of us, and I DO trust your opinion more than Schembris, where would you rank their ability? o_o

Shoot me straight.