Sherdog PC Build/Buy Thread, v5: Stop Thinking of Your Router as a Peripheral

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Ok, guys I need some help, I'm looking to upgrade my graphics card as I have a bit of extra cash now and can finally scratch that itch and splurge on one. I'm looking one that can preferably handle the current games on max settings at at least 30+ fps or at the very least high settings. I'm thinking Witcher 3 at max settings at least at better than 30fps.

I'm mainly looking to game at 1080p, I am planning on 4k gaming at some point, but not yet as I want to build a whole new computer from scratch and make it into a beast, but that's sometime in the near future, for now, 1080p max gaming will do. Now, with that rant aside.

I am looking for a graphics card under 300$ (if possible), my current specs are:

GIGABYTE GA-Z77X-UD3H LGA 1155
8 GB RAM
Intel Core i5-3570K Ivy Bridge Quad-Core
XFX Radeon HD 7850 core 2gb
700W PSU

Any help is appreciated, my current card holds up decently enough to new games, but its usually at low-medium settings, so its showing its age. Want to get back to making my games look sexy af.
 
Oh and another thing @Madmick , the big sticky thread with all the links isn't working, I clicked on multiple links and they gave me an error.
 
FightsFTW said:
Oh and another thing @Madmick , the big sticky thread with all the links isn't working, I clicked on multiple links and they gave me an error.
Click to expand...
Well, fuck. I just tried fixing the link, and it is still broken. I may have to just re-create that OP. Thanks for the heads up.
 
Way overkill if anything. Entire system will likely pull well under 300w at full load at the wall.

But those don't sit that well in terms of price/performance ratio.

I'd consider waiting at this point.
 
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http://www.theverge.com/2016/3/30/1...b-usb-c-drive-hard-drive-pricing-release-date
So I saw the trending tech story on Facebook about the world's first external hard drive from Seagate that can draw sufficient power via USB3 to power the drive. Sick.

USB3-C and Thunderbolt 3 are the shit. It got me to thinking about how much closer and closer we're getting to a singular power loop for an entire system: 1 cord to rule them all. It's already insane what a typical desktop office environment looks like today in terms of wire clutter compared to 10 years ago: keyboard, mouse, and headset are totally wireless; printer/fax/scanners need no wires going to the computer. Go forward in time a little further, and people still needed docks or additional power outlet plug-ins for to recharge their phone/tablet. People may still like those, but they're not a necessity. USB3 front ports are now a standard, and though long delayed, we should expect to starting seeing them by the end of this year in most flagship phones. They'll charge your phone nearly as fast as a wall.

Now external hard drives (and soon NAS boxes and pretty much anything else that attaches via USB) won't need external power if they currently do.

Next up is HDMI. Supposedly Cat 6a technology will replace it. I'm not sure what Cat 6a's capabilities are, but HDMI needs to be replaced with a standard that is better intended for progression in power throughput. The MHL standard that adapts to its port demonstrates that a standard CAN be developed that carries all the same data without bottlenecking it, but also has the capability to supply power. The latest superMHL (supplanting MHL 3) can supply 40W of throughput to recharge the phone/tablet connecting to the monitor (and power outlet) via the MHL hub adapter to the USB port. Compare that to the peak of 100W/5A power throughput for USB3 & Thunderbolt 3. It's the monitor with the HDMI port that is a bottleneck for power:

J135B-001B_image_3.jpg


Once that is established it will mean a single cord running from the PC to the monitor: supplying image, audio, and power. That wouldn't leave much:

Wired, Power
  • The PC itself needs power.
  • High-end audio setups simply require too much power to drive them to expect data cables to carry the power (anytime soon). So those will also need power.
  • The printer/scanner/fax still need power cord(s).
  • Router still needs power cord.
Wired, Data
  • The HDMI replacement standard cord running from PC video card port to monitor.
  • Audio cord running from PC audio card port to head speaker.
  • Ethernet cable running from router to PC motherboard port.
  • Cat cable running from router to broadband wall outlet.

I love the trend. Hopefully they can replicate this progression with Ethernet cables.
 
FightsFTW said:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127860

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125777

or this

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814487164
Click to expand...
Just no sound reason to pay $240+ for a GTX 960, IMO. I know that silence, cooling & build quality for long-term durability, and (to some) factory clocking are important, but there's just no argument I could make that I could defend against myself arguing for other products. This $210 EVGA is about the priciest I would go for a GTX 960, I think:
Amazon product ASIN B012NOWERCAmazon is a different vendor. Otherwise this card has the same backplate, the same power phase design, and an identical cooling solution minus the improved heatsink design on the FTW edition. That improved overclocking headroom from that for the FTW (prob at most ~5%, prob 1%-3%) doesn't seem likely to be worth $30.

Otherwise, unless based on your reading or experience you are committed to the NVIDIA brand, then it's really hard not to look at options like the Gigabyte R9 380X Windforce 2X for $230 ($220 with rebate). It's just a flat out more powerful card:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125836
Keep in mind that so far AMD has been looking really good on the DX12 benchmarks. I believe NVIDIA will catch themselves up by the time demanding DX12 titles actually hit the market, but that's just my speculation. AMD's long term push-in there is paying off.

You'll get no better comparisons than real-world user benchmarks from benchmarks like UserBenchmark:
UserBenchmark > NVIDIA GTX 960 vs. AMD R9 380X
R9 380X shows 30% superior effective speed.

Hot Hardware & Tech Report & PC World all concur in controlled testing.

Techpowerup
The comparative percentile performance calculated from the sum results of a benchmark suite of frames per second in actual games:
GTX 960 = 75%
R9 380X = 96%
- this puts the R9 380X at 28% more powerful

perfrel_1920_1080.png


 
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some random guy said:
If you want a 380x $210, $190 after rebate - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150761&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-PCPartPicker, LLC-_-na-_-na-_-na&cm_sp=&AID=10446076&PID=3938566&SID=

But if you buy now in this segment just be aware that in about 3 months you will likely be looking at new products. AMD's product stack is dropping in retail street prices because of this.
Click to expand...
I definitely like the suggestion because I think going with the cheapest graphics card is often the best choice for value (which should be your top consideration until you're looking at cards like the GTX 970+), and I saw that on PC Part Picker, but I was trying to be a bit more apples-to-apples. He wasn't looking at the low end of the GTX 960's, after all (which start for 4GB versions at $190 with rebates). I was stretching his $240 budget to the best purchase I saw below that price point. Not that these are available for every card, but manufacturer air cooling solution tiering:

EVGA
Kingpin (ACX2.0+) > Classified (ACX2.0+) > FTW (ACX2.0+) > SSC (ACX2.0+) > SC+ (ACX2.0+) > SC (ACX2.0)

Gigabyte
Windforce 3x (700W) > Windforce 3x (600W) > Windforce 2x

These are their premium air-cooling lines only that have dual fans at a minimum. As you can see the ACX2.0+ guarantees him the best air cooler EVGA makes if he desires to overclock. Otherwise, the difference in lines is about things like superior power phase design, max power draw, backplate, BIOS chips, VRM-cooling integration, the best binning, and overall general build quality.

The Windforce 2X is not quite as premium as that EVGA SSC, but it's close.

***

*Edit* I looked it over more closely, and the Sapphire for $225 is the real step up for the R9 380X. It has a superior power phase design, and likely a better binning with a 1000MHz out-of-the-box clock:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814202183&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-PCPartPicker, LLC-_-na-_-na-_-na&cm_sp=&AID=10446076&PID=3938566&SID=
The Power Phase is 8 + 6 compared to the miserly 6 + 2 for the GTX 960 FTW. It's simply a better card. If you don't factor in the rebate (which many don't), then this Sapphire is worth the $15 premium over the XFX, certainly.
 
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Thanks for the replies guys, not committed to any brand, my current card is AMD, so was thinking maybe trying the other side, but have no problem going AMD again if it means a better card. And yes I am planning on overclocking.
My budget is under 300 or maybe slightly over if the performance upgrade from a cheaper one is worth the investment, so the ones I saw were around 240, but I can spend a bit more if you guys have any other suggestions.

I am planning on building a new computer at some point in the near future and have it 4k capable and VR ready, but for the time being I just want to be able to max out my games in 1080p with my current pc.

I also gotta say I'm kicking myself because there was a Gigabyte R9 390 on sale about 10 days ago for 255$ and I almost pulled the trigger, but ended up passing because I didn't have the extra money at the time, I would have replaced that money in no time, but hindsight is 20/20.......
 
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Gotcha. In any decision at a particular budget point, as some random guy and I have already contrasted, you will have a choice between the cheapest versions of a more powerful card vs. a more premium version of a less powerful card. I think that Sapphire 380X is the best card at $225 or under:
Sapphire Nitro R9 380X 4GB w/Backplate ($225)

If you want to be more economical, then this MSI GTX 960 4GB is $195, and a $20 rebate takes it to $175:
MSI GeForce GTX 960 4GD5T OC 4GB ($195 - $20 rebate = $175)
Or the cheapest 380X that SMR mentioned:
XFX Radeon R9 380X R9-380X-4255 4GB ($210 - $20 rebate = $190)

There doesn't appear to be a winner in the $226-$300 range atm. There's a $300 R9 390 8GB if you live near a Microcenter to pick it up. It's that same Sapphire Nitro line. Incidentally, the #1 overclocked result on UserBenchmark for the R9 390 was that Sapphire model (though I should mention I just noticed the XFX has the top result for the 380X...but also the worst). Otherwise both the GTX 970 and R9 390 effectively start around $310.

The R9 390 would be about 30% faster than the R9 380X which is 30% faster than the GTX 960, but maybe more importantly it would have 8GB RAM instead of 4GB for the upcoming several years of games.

Food for thought:
Tom's Hardware: Best Graphics Cards for the Money (Updated 3/27/2016)
 
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So, I'm new to building my own PC, but I wanted to give it a go. Since I'm a complete noob at this, I'd love some feedback. Are there any bottlenecks? Better parts I could use? Etc.

I'll mainly use it for gaming and work related stuff (mainly microsoft office stuff). May want to try my hand at photoshop as well. Won't be hosting any servers or anything like that though.

Anyway here's the part list.

CPU: Intel Core i7-4790K @ 4.00GHz
GPU: MSI geforce gtx 970
Motherboard: Asrock Fatal1ty Z97x Killer
Memory: Corsair Vengeance Pro (2x 8GB)
SSD: Samsung 850 EVO - 250GB
Power supply: Cooler Master GM Series G750M - 750W
CPU cooler: Corsair Hydro Series H110i GTX Perfomance Liquid CPU Cooler
Case: NZXT Source 340

I read that this cpu is very good for multitasking and also very good for gaming, so I went with this one. Saw it in a few gaming builds as well, and people seemed happy with it.

I do have a question regarding the SSD and Memory compatibility with the MB though. I can't find them specifically on the MB website support list, but I think they should work. PC partpicker also doesn't show any issues. Also seen 1 or 2 builds that use either the memory or SSD, but not the same combination. But it should work right?

http://ark.intel.com/products/80807/Intel-Core-i7-4790K-Processor-8M-Cache-up-to-4_40-GHz
https://www.msi.com/Graphics-card/GTX-970-GAMING-4G.html#hero-overview
http://www.asrock.com/mb/intel/fatal1ty z97x killer/
http://www.corsair.com/en/vengeance...am-2400mhz-c11-memory-kit-cmy16gx3m2a2400c11r
http://www.samsung.com/us/computer/memory-storage/MZ-75E250B/AM
http://www.coolermaster.com/powersupply/modular-gm-series/g750m/
http://www.corsair.com/en/hydro-series-h110i-gtx-280mm-extreme-performance-liquid-cpu-cooler
https://www.nzxt.com/products/s340-black

Any feedback is welcome! Thanks in advance.
 
Go to 1TB or close to it with the SSD, and you can use it for your Steam/Origin/random DRM install folders as well. Literally every game will load faster. I'm loving it ever since I switched.

The ridiculous load times for Dragon Age: Inquisition went from "Who the fuck knows?" to maximum 5 seconds.
 
Ippy said:
Go to 1TB or close to it with the SSD, and you can use it for your Steam/Origin/random DRM install folders as well. Literally every game will load faster. I'm loving it ever since I switched.

The ridiculous load times for Dragon Age: Inquisition went from "Who the fuck knows?" to maximum 5 seconds.
Click to expand...
I've considered a 500GB one. Would that be big enough?

I do have a few external harddrives that I use to store files and videos that I don't need every day, but I'm not sure that would leave enough space on the SSD.
 
GrizzlyTitan said:
I've considered a 500GB one. Would that be big enough?

I do have a few external harddrives that I use to store files and videos that I don't need every day, but I'm not sure that would leave enough space on the SSD.
Click to expand...
Maybe, but my own personal SSD is 900GB, and I only have 250GB free. I say, if you're going to spend the money to get a quality gaming rig, just go all in.

I have a separate 6TB external drive just for movies, tv, and shit too. I use my SSD just for Windows and other programs.
 
Ippy said:
Maybe, but my own personal SSD is 900GB, and I only have 250GB free. I say, if you're going to spend the money to get a quality gaming rig, just go all in.

I have a separate 6TB external drive just for movies, tv, and shit too. I use my SSD just for Windows and other programs.
Click to expand...
Alright, I'll look into a bigger SSD for sure then! Thanks for the advice!
 
ForeverZero said:
no sure about resolution . But I am running SLI 760 TI's . No doubt upgrading probably next year .
Click to expand...
Well we'll need more information than that, like price range and such but I would say 1440 ips is the best option. Modern AAA games will probably need to be run at 1080 with 760's though
 
Ippy said:
Go to 1TB or close to it with the SSD, and you can use it for your Steam/Origin/random DRM install folders as well. Literally every game will load faster. I'm loving it ever since I switched.

The ridiculous load times for Dragon Age: Inquisition went from "Who the fuck knows?" to maximum 5 seconds.
Click to expand...
GrizzlyTitan said:
Alright, I'll look into a bigger SSD for sure then! Thanks for the advice!
Click to expand...
I would recommend the Mushkin Reactor as the even more value-minded alternative to the value-minded market standard Samsung 850 EVO. The Mushkin is about 30% slower overall, but it's nearly as fast in the most critical spec for gamers: read speed (472 MB/s vs. 498 MB/s), and it's hands down the best value in this performance class with their 1TB drive:
http://ssd.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Samsung-850-Evo-500GB-vs-Mushkin-Reactor-1TB/3477vsm19867
The Samsung EVO 1TB is actually more expensive per GB than the 500GB. AAA games are like 20GB-60GB. It fills up fast.

Mushkin Reactor 1TB
472 MB/s read speed
$210 (NewEgg)
$0.210 per GB

Samsung 850 EVO 1TB
498MB/s read speed
$292 (Amazon)
$0.292 per GB
GrizzlyTitan said:
I've considered a 500GB one. Would that be big enough?

I do have a few external harddrives that I use to store files and videos that I don't need every day, but I'm not sure that would leave enough space on the SSD.
Click to expand...
Well, how quickly do you fill up the 500GB drives with games on the consoles? AAA games today are like 20GB-60GB. It fills up fast.

Two strategies:
(1) You can buy the bigger, more economical SSD drive and forgeddaboutit.
(2) You can buy a smaller drive (either with higher performance for the same price or lower cost) and deal with apps like Steamtool which will move your apps/games around drives for you. So if you know you're not the type to play more than a few games at any given moment, then you can do this. But if you know you're the type who some days just likes to randomly want to play something from anywhere in your library, then you'll want the bigger drive.
 
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GrizzlyTitan said:
So, I'm new to building my own PC, but I wanted to give it a go. Since I'm a complete noob at this, I'd love some feedback. Are there any bottlenecks? Better parts I could use? Etc.

I'll mainly use it for gaming and work related stuff (mainly microsoft office stuff). May want to try my hand at photoshop as well. Won't be hosting any servers or anything like that though.

Anyway here's the part list.

CPU: Intel Core i7-4790K @ 4.00GHz
GPU: MSI geforce gtx 970
Motherboard: Asrock Fatal1ty Z97x Killer
Memory: Corsair Vengeance Pro (2x 8GB)
SSD: Samsung 850 EVO - 250GB
Power supply: Cooler Master GM Series G750M - 750W
CPU cooler: Corsair Hydro Series H110i GTX Perfomance Liquid CPU Cooler
Case: NZXT Source 340

I read that this cpu is very good for multitasking and also very good for gaming, so I went with this one. Saw it in a few gaming builds as well, and people seemed happy with it.

I do have a question regarding the SSD and Memory compatibility with the MB though. I can't find them specifically on the MB website support list, but I think they should work. PC partpicker also doesn't show any issues. Also seen 1 or 2 builds that use either the memory or SSD, but not the same combination. But it should work right?

http://ark.intel.com/products/80807/Intel-Core-i7-4790K-Processor-8M-Cache-up-to-4_40-GHz
https://www.msi.com/Graphics-card/GTX-970-GAMING-4G.html#hero-overview
http://www.asrock.com/mb/intel/fatal1ty z97x killer/
http://www.corsair.com/en/vengeance...am-2400mhz-c11-memory-kit-cmy16gx3m2a2400c11r
http://www.samsung.com/us/computer/memory-storage/MZ-75E250B/AM
http://www.coolermaster.com/powersupply/modular-gm-series/g750m/
http://www.corsair.com/en/hydro-series-h110i-gtx-280mm-extreme-performance-liquid-cpu-cooler
https://www.nzxt.com/products/s340-black

Any feedback is welcome! Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
If you're going to install a CPU cooler with 2x140mm rads like the Corsair H110, then you might want to pay careful attention to your case selection. The NZXT S340 is compatible, but it's one of the smallest cases, volume-wise, that can fit them. You will be forced to install it in the front of the case. This guys shows a guts swap from a Corsair 600T to the NZXT 340 Windowed:

Just be mindful of this. PC Part Picker is amazing, and has made PC blueprinting a breeze, but it's still not perfect, and CPU cooler compatibility is still one of the things that can cause problems even when PC Part Picker doesn't indicate compatibility. Even if a case does support certain radiators doesn't mean it necessarily supports it if you plan to use both 2.5"/3.5" drive bays meaning you can't remove a drive cage: stuff like that. These are some of the first rocks you'll find on your path, here.

Ironically, I was just working on generating a list of MidATX Towers that I would legitimately consider for a build exactly like this. The truth is that it comes down to a few real manufacturers and their market winners that I would genuinely consider at various price points for a personal build. I hadn't completed the $150+ section, but if I was spending that much I would just get a Full ATX tower like the Corsair 750D. Of these manufacturers, Silverstone tends to specialize in smaller cases, and Lian Li isn't usually competitively priced. Phanteks still has a very streamlined catalog. The result is that almost all of the models are Corsair, Fractal Design, and NZXT.

Top PC Case Manufacturers
  • Cooler Master
  • Corsair
  • Fractal Design
  • Lian Li
  • NZXT
  • Phanteks
  • Silverstone
Hon. Mentions: Bitfenix, Thermaltake
Best Startup: NCASE


Best MidATX Towers

$50 & Under
  • Corsair Carbide 100R
  • Corsair Spec-01
  • NZXT Source 210
  • Silverstone PS11B
$51-$75
  • Corsair Carbide 200R
  • Corsair Carbide 300R
  • Fractal Design Define R4
  • Fractal Design Define S
  • NZXT S340
  • *Phanteks P400
  • *Silverstone RL-05B
$75-$100
  • Corsair Carbide 400(C/Q)
  • Corsair Carbide 400R
  • Enermax Ostrog GT
  • NZXT Phantom 410
  • Phanteks Enthoo Pro M
  • Thermaltake Core V51
$100-$150
  • Cooler Master MasterCase Pro 5
  • Corsair Air 540
  • Corsair 500R
  • Corsair Obsidian 450D
  • Fractal Design Define R5
  • NZXT Noctis 450
  • NZXT H440
$150+
  • Corsair Obsidian 550D
  • Phanteks Enthoo EVOLV
*Upcoming stars from the CES or Computex shows.
Note: Discontinued cases like the Corsair 650D have been omitted.


Otherwise, I haven't updated since I posted it, but here is a list of all the cases supporting big liquid AIO radiators. I'll try to update it throughout the day with the latest releases that aren't already included. We just got the CES 2016 show, so most of these year's models haven't rolled out yet.
Sherdog PC Build/Buy Thread, v5: Stop Thinking of Your Router as a Peripheral
 
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