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SHERDOG MOVIE CLUB: WEEK 120: Eyes Wide Shut

cubo de sangre: This film is about a conflicted doctor who won't go all the way and cheat on his wife.

I don't think that's exactly what I said, but point well-taken on the fact there's lots of ways to look at this film.


Hell, he even goes BACK to the hooker from Sharky's machine to try again after witnessing all that craziness from the ritual. Then he tries to bang the hooker's roommate (and of course can't seal the deal).

Good point. Although he still never goes through with anything so he can't be trying too hard to get laid. He's more sticking his toe in the water a little as the various temptations cross his path.
 
Found @MusterX's Youtube channel.




LOL, I love it when he starts talking about Pan Pizza. He missed the part about ermine being a coat and pattern used for royalty but then he followed up his pan pizza theory with the fact Bill goes to see Domino after the situation with Militch. Domino, as in Dominoes pizza. All in all a pretty fun 5 minutes. We live in the era of user made content. If you would have told me in the 1980's that some day people will make their own videos that millions of other people can watch for free and it will probably be more popular than cable T.V., I would have laughed in your face. It doesn't really matter if its true or not, its entertaining.
 
Good point. Although he still never goes through with anything so he can't be trying too hard to get laid. He's more sticking his toe in the water a little as the various temptations cross his path.
He was macking down pretty hard on the roomie, but just hearing the term "HIV" is a real turn off.

I think I've been underselling the dream angle. It's as if hearing about his wife's desires made him descend into a struggle of id versus ego. His mind dealing with a shattered self image and the reality of how his wife perceived him, and who really has the upper hand in their marriage, is what plays out for the rest of the movie. Like a Jacob's Ladder for his own enlightenment :cool:

"The ego operates based on the reality principle, which strives to satisfy the id's desires in realistic and socially appropriate ways. The reality principle weighs the costs and benefits of an action before deciding to act upon or abandon impulses. In many cases, the id's impulses can be satisfied through a process of delayed gratification—the ego will eventually allow the behavior, but only in the appropriate time and place."
-- Some web article about Freud that may or may not be full of shite
 
He was macking down pretty hard on the roomie, but just hearing the term "HIV" is a real turn off.

I think I've been underselling the dream angle. It's as if hearing about his wife's desires made him descend into a struggle of id versus ego. His mind dealing with a shattered self image and the reality of how his wife perceived him, and who really has the upper hand in their marriage, is what plays out for the rest of the movie. Like a Jacob's Ladder for his own enlightenment :cool:

"The ego operates based on the reality principle, which strives to satisfy the id's desires in realistic and socially appropriate ways. The reality principle weighs the costs and benefits of an action before deciding to act upon or abandon impulses. In many cases, the id's impulses can be satisfied through a process of delayed gratification—the ego will eventually allow the behavior, but only in the appropriate time and place."
-- Some web article about Freud that may or may not be full of shite
I thought Kubrick was hostile towards Freud, but I must have gotten him mixed up with Nabokov. Anyways, while googling that I run into this column about Kubrick, Freud and Schnitzler: http://www.victorbloom.com/detail.php?id=1985 I don't know Freud, so I have no idea if it's any good.
 
I thought Kubrick was hostile towards Freud, but I must have gotten him mixed up with Nabokov. Anyways, while googling that I run into this column about Kubrick, Freud and Schnitzler: http://www.victorbloom.com/detail.php?id=1985 I don't know Freud, so I have no idea if it's any good.
Nice find. That blue and yellow font, though! Reminds me of the old DOS 1.0 days.

I don't know much about Freud either, I had just heard that Kubrick is a fan. "Traumnovelle", the novella mentioned in your link that EWS is based on apparently, means "Dream Story". So it seems like Freud was probably a big influence.
 
Dual meaning maybe? You make a strong case about Alice looking outside of the relationship while Bill is focused only on her, but at the same time, this is a film about secret societies and the cover is blatant one eye symbolism. In any other situation you would make me doubt the symbol but in this case it seems self evident. If its a dual meaning about secret societies as well as the state of Alice and Bill's relationship, at the same time, then its fucking genius. Absolutely brilliant.

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Alice Through the Looking Glass.
 
Just re watched Eyes Wide Shut yesterday.

I've had the theme song stuck in my head since then.

Always liked that movie.
 
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To you point about Alice and shinning, she also seemed to know that Dr. Harford was about to cheat on her with the prostitute since she called him as it was about to happen.

Wasn't it obvious that she was at the orgy? I thought it was strongly hinted that Alice was a member and had been to several parties (by way of Ziegler, i assumed).
 
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<AckbarTrap>

I'm sure you're a respectable young woman, but I wouldn't generalize an entire gender.
There are plenty of Men and Women who act on temptation.
Men are more likely to, but still.

:D
I totally agree that both sexes will give in to temptation. My comment is based on what a a psychologist said during a presentation on how men and women react to visual stimuli. He is the top expert witness for the state on sexual misconduct cases, and is an expert on physiological reactions. I'm speaking in particular to that initial reaction. He showed us the area of the brain that responds with a sexual response to a visual stimuli and they were vastly different for men and women. It may be a generalization, but it is based on science. I don't have time to research this to back it up and I don't have the bibliography that supported the talk, but I can say that this was a highly respected expert. Here is a video that shows initial reactions and they are vastly different.
 
I'm not so sure about that. He paid that prostitute later on, for example. Seems to indicate a lasivcious spirit.

To me he was deeply hurt, his insecurity was triggered and he wanted to prove his manhood in a I'll show her kind of way. Paying the girl after not sleeping with her was kindness on his part. He really struck me as a decent guy who made bad decisions when his manhood and sense of security were attacked.
 
Many conspiracy theorists think most secret societies are connected.
There are also so many layers to a Kubrick film that I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility that he makes references to several groups who may be involved.

Or the invention of a new one with borrowed recognizable elements....
 
Zeigler was most certainly a member of the order, hence him trying to dissuade Cruise from looking into Mandy's death so much and forgetting about the entire thing. So he must have seen Cruise at the party. He's unlikely to be the man in red though considering the vastly different accent (played by a different actor). Or it could be that the orgy was entirely just a dream-sequence.

There was a dude on the balcony who visually zeroed in on Cruise when he first arrived. I think that was Zeigler.
 
I can't let you guys off the hook this time. There is a tendency to sanitize an unpalatable truth. I am forced to nuclear bomb once again.



This film is packed with Occult symbols and I think a message from Stanley Kubrick. Mirrors are occult and have been for hundreds of years. For example, Students of the occult use mirrors to look into the world of spirits. Gazing into one supposedly reveals visions of spirit guides and helps one gain auric sight, the ability to see the aura. Some believe that the face changes seen by staring into a mirror are images of past lives.

Why do you think bitch had a magic mirror?

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The mirror may have a dual meaning as I have discussed with @Tufts in this thread. IF, IF that's right, two IF's, the film was about a couple who had intimacy issues I would go along with the idea that the mirror imagery was simply narcissism but its not. This film is deeply about secret societies and pagan worship. You can't minimize that to a background idea. As @Tufts pointed out the cover art is of Alice looking outside the marriage and Bill looking only at Alice but its also one eye symbology, undeniably. So, IMO, a dual meaning on this cover art is absolutely genius. The photo encompasses both the reality of Bill and Alice's marriage but also a secret society.

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I'll cover this at the bottom.



I'll concede The Shining comment but say that "dream-logic" is almost no different than me saying Alice had The Shining, which is simply she was a little psychic which is how she dreamed what Bill experienced. Either way its a very difficult to explain situaution. At least with "the shining" its a part of the Kubrick universe.



I'm not muddying the water, Kubrick muddied the water! He leaves me no outs. Stanley Kubrick implicates everyone in this film.

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I don't know, I'll have to get back to you on that. I've always heard 24 minutes were cut but its a point of contention. For example here is a Reddit thread talking about it.



Ok, @europe1 here is what I'm claiming in this thread, boiled down as much as I can in 6 easy to understand points.

1. That the film is about conducting magic sex rituals, not simply a film about wealthy people that like to have sex.

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2. That the secret society in this film worships Ishtar/Venus. Ziegler has 8 pointed Stars of Ishtar all over his party, Stars of Ishtar are also known as Stars of Venus.

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3. That Venus worship included the following.

The planet Venus was known to the ancients as the “Light Bearer” because Venus appears in the sky each morning before the sun rises. In ancient Greco-Roman mythology Venus was the goddess of love, sexuality, and procreation. The goddess Venus, the “Light Bearer” was called Luc-ferre, or Lucifer in Latin.

When Bill enters the party we see 2 statues of Venus bearing the light above their heads. I wouldn't normally be this convicted but in combination with the Stars of Venus, and the fact Venus is the light bearer as well as the god of sex, I don't think you can deny it. This cult worships Lucifer.

IlluminatiWatcherDotCom-Eyes-Wide-Shut-Somerton-goddess-22-WO.jpg


4. That Kubrick implicated a wide variety of elite in this film beyond just the Illuminati which is part of the cover art. The Yale-like frat boys implicate Skull and Bones which is political, two Bush presidents for example.

IlluminatiWatcherDotCom-Eyes-Wide-Shut-Yale-Skull-Bones-WO.jpg


The Royal family was implicated by Nuala's last name being Windsor and by the sculpture known as Dangerous Liaisons. The sculpture was done by Philip Jackson the Royal sculptor for Queen Elizabeth.

EWS%20Statue%20and%20Film%20Clip.jpg


Hollywood and specifically Bob Hope was implicated by the man wearing the Bob Hope mask. nobody else was wearing a mask of a specific person. BTW, Venus statues everywhere.

eyes-wide-shut-3.jpg


The Rothschild's almost certainly were implicated by the location and set up of the mansion and black mass. Their 1972 costume party at Mentmore Towers is incredibly similar both in style and setting. They lit the mansion that evening to look as if it was on fire.

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5. That I have proven what this cult is all about with everything presented plus the following.

The sculpture of Dangerous Liaisons that implicates the Royal family is located in Buckinghamshire, England.
Mentmore Towers, the party that implicates the Rothschild's is located in Buckinghamshire, England.
And finally, the secret society known as the Hellfire Club, A.K.A. The Brotherhood of St. Francis of Wycome, is located in Buckinghamshire, England. The Hellfire Club, which intially wasn't called that, was known for pagan rituals, the worshiping of Venus, secret parties, and also had a leader that dressed in red.

According to Horace Walpole, the members' "practice was rigorously pagan: Bacchus and Venus were the deities to whom they almost publicly sacrificed; and the nymphs and the hogsheads that were laid in against the festivals of this new church, sufficiently informed the neighborhood of the complexion of those hermits." Dashwood's garden at West Wycombe contained numerous statues and shrines to different gods; Daphne and Flora, Priapus and the previously mentioned Venus and Dionysus.[34]

Meetings occurred twice a month, with an AGM lasting a week or more in June or September.[35] The members addressed each other as "Brothers" and the leader, which changed regularly, as "Abbot". During meetings members supposedly wore ritual clothing: white trousers, jacket and cap, while the "Abbot" wore a red ensemble of the same style.[36] Legends of Black Masses and Satan or demon worship have subsequently become attached to the club, beginning in the late Nineteenth Century. Rumours saw female "guests" (a euphemism for prostitutes) referred to as "Nuns". Dashwood's Club meetings often included mock rituals, items of a pornographic nature, much drinking, wenching and banqueting.[37]

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As far as your comment above about being anti-religious, absolutely 100% correct. This was a black mass, they worship Lucifer/Venus, which is why Kubrick plays the music backwards, a popular technique by satanists. The Hellfire Club held their parties in the basement of a church and were known to be extremely anti-religion to the point of mockery.

Hellfire-Club.png


6. That Ziegler tried to tell Bill that these were not normal people, they are, based on the evidence, politicians, the wealthy, royalty, and celebrity.

Timestamped here beginning at 0:54



7. Additional points would be about Nick Nightingale's name, his purpose, as well as the Rainbow Wizard of Oz symbols which I will leave out for this post.


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I have to say the boobs did not look the same to me. When she was passed out on the couch, they seemed real, but we never saw Mandy standing up. The girl at the party seemed to have fake ones.

I can't believe I just wrote that paragraph....

I was more focused on the hair to see if it was the same hair.
 
So, in the end Alice says "The important thing is: we're awake now". Which is practically the call sign of every CT enthusiast out there these days. I wonder if this movie started it. I know there are a host of CT's about the movie itself. I think it is a depiction of a sort of successful guy attempting to punch up and stumbling into and illuminati like cult. Or maybe being drawn in?

No comprendo. What is a CT enthusiast? I googled it but only got car information.
 
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