Seriously: Is Weidman just better than AS or did AS just get old?

[V5RED]

People like to say that Silva taunted as a tactic to beat his opponents. I don't see it like that. He was just so much better than everyone he fought that he eventually got bored of just winning and started messing around to make it more fun for himself. It is like if you are really good at a video game so you do things that are tactically stupid just to see if you can get away with it. FFS he used to put his hands at his waist and dance around punches. For those who don't like games, it is like if you are really good in the classroom and do stupid things to make it more entertaining. I did something like that a few times, for example I didn't study at all for a statistics class on a dare to see if I could get an A without studying. For those who don't like video games or school, think about Rocky III. He had not had a challenge that could hurt him in years. He was probably barely training and not really interested. It isn't a tactic to win, it is just a way to make it interesting.

In his first fight with Weidman, it looked like he was still just bored Silva trying to amuse himself and only still there for the paycheck.


That said, there is no way he didn't take the second fight seriously, and in that fight he definitely lost the first round, but a round is not a fight. Additionally, he had aged since his prime, so we don't know how a prime motivated Silva would do. He also had not had a fight that gave him any trouble in years, so his training was probably nowhere near as good as that of a rising champion.

The best test will be seeing how Weidman does against a variety of contenders. He has, thus far, beaten Silva and Lyoto, but Lyoto is a lot like Silva. I would like to see him against someone renowned for BJJ or Wrestling before declaring him to be the MW GOAT over Silva.

edit: BTW, Although any philosopher will recognize that this statement means absolutely nothing in terms of my argument, I freaking hated Silva. That guy ruined multiple events for me and made me look like a jerk to my friends when I told them they were in for something special seeing him fight when he acted like a fool against Demian Maia. My sig has not changed since Brock was champion. I still see him as GOAT for now.

 

[lifelessheap]

There are many things to consider.

Firstly, and I couldn't admit this until Weidman/ Machida, but Chris is actually an incredible fighter. I was wrong to doubt that.

Next, Anderson had been disinterested in the MW division and had been for years. Weidman was barely a name and the spider was disrespectful to his challenger.

Those two things mattered more, but there is some truth about age slowing Silva down. His movement in the first Weidman fight was almost comically slow, at times. I was screaming at him to stop, but it was too late.

I will only comment that the second fight was a fluke injury and left far more questions unanswered than it did to solidly any sort of dominance for Chris.

TBH, it looked like the Spider wanted nothing to do with Chris. He wasn't disrespectful, he was fucking ducking him. The Spider's team was doing everything they could to avoid a fight. I think they knew Chris was a shit match up.

 

[Chappi]

If and only if Weidman can defend the title for as many times and years as Anderson did, I will consider him to be as good as Silva.
Until that day, they are not even in the same ballpark.

 

[Wise1]

I have seen a lot folks just make quick or snarky comments on this question either way. But I am wondering seriously what people think here and why.

Putting biases aside as much as we can, what are the arguments on both sides?

I tend to think Weidman is just better than any version Anderson. He is just more skilled in more areas, regardless of age. The AS that destroyed Franklin still loses to Weidman. I just do not see evidence that Anderson was significantly declining going into the Weidman fights. But would like to hear well-designed opinions on either side.

I truly believe Andy was on his way to winning the first fight. The momentum was shifting and Weidman was deflating, even Roy Jones who was in attendance read it that way. Then the Spider got caught in his own web. Its like a transference of power occured and The Chris hasnt looked back.

but you cant say that Chris is more skilled than Andy everywhere. Ill give Chris the advantage in the wrestling/grappling department but thats it. Skill aside, Chris is younger, stronger and hungrier. The AS that destroyed Franklin would have been competitive with Chris as would the AS that fought Chris the first time, had he not lost himself.

What made Anderson the greatest was his confidence and Chris took that away. Heres to hoping Andy can put it all together again and that its not too late... Turns 40 this year or next?

 

[Oliver Clothesoff]

If and only if Weidman can defend the title for as many times and years as Anderson did, I will consider him to be as good as Silva.
Until that day, they are not even in the same ballpark.

Agreed. I don't think anyone is claiming Weidman to be the GOAT. Just that he's better than Silva NOW. I'm still on the fence for the 3rd rematch, but Weidman was winning fight 2 (IMO) before Silva broke his leg. So, I think Weidman gets it done again. That still won't mean he's the GOAT and that still won't take that title away from Silva. He was the undisputed GOAT until he lost to Weidman.

Do you lose your GOAT status just because you lose, or do you simply become "one of the GOATS"? I'd bet my house the Greatest Fighter of All Time isn't even in the UFC yet. He's probably some kid training MMA somewhere. The sport has only really started taking off the last few years. With increasing popularity and better pay, the Pool of talent can only get better.

 

[The Accuser]

Anybody denying that you are not at your athletic prime at 39 yo is kidding themselves or retarded, probably both. Having said that, Weidman is the style matchup Anderson tried to avoid for so long. Even journeyman Chael effin Sonnen almost beat Anderson. Weidman probably beats prime Anderson as well but most likely it would be much more competitive.

 

[Perrichet]

If and only if Weidman can defend the title for as many times and years as Anderson did, I will consider him to be as good as Silva.
Until that day, they are not even in the same ballpark.

"They are not even in the same ballpark" yet Weidman tooled him twice. How does that work?

Anderson has the greater career obviously but head-to-head Weidman has proven to be superior twice.

 

[Substance Abuse]

Thread lacks significant context. Get back to me when Weidman is doing this well, 36 fights deep.

 

[Otto!]

I think there are 3 factors:

Anderson got older
Stylistic it was a bad matchup for AS
Weidman is really good

Well said. Not saying that prime AS would beat Weidman, but I agree with this.

 

[Miiiiiiighty]

Both.
I think Anderson has clearly lost a step, especially in the chin department.

But Weidman would have beaten the " prime Anderson " that got taken down by Travis Lutter or Hendo too.

Anderson's aging didn't happen overnight either, it was pretty obvious since the Chaels and Bonnar fights that someone with both strong wrestling and a menacing stand up game due to KO power would cause him troubles
Also Teh Chris isn't impressed not gotten to by Anderson, and that's a big gamechanger

 

[kibz]

Both. Natural progression of changing of the guard as they say. Andy was getting older. Weidman was younger with solid all around skills and refused to be rattled. Andy got smashed, simple as that.

I'm an Anderson fan but it is what it is. You can tell silva was getting bored of the game. If you watched the walkouts of the last 2 fights the hunger was just not there.

Prime and hungry Anderson would have found a way to victory. But Father Time don't lie and no one stays on top forever. It feels like Jordan coming back with the 45 jersey now....just not the same I wish he would have quit after the first Weidman loss and rode into the sunset.

 

[The Don]

Chris would've still probably won against a prime Anderson, maybe a closer fight perhaps, but I can agree with some of the fellow posters here saying Weidman is Anderson's kyrptonite.

I mean, he was getting tagged with solid shots from Chael. Silva's weakness has always been wrestling and Chael kinda exposed and showed how Anderson's standup changes drastically when posed with threats of takedowns.

 

[sampuncher]

Both.
I think Anderson has clearly lost a step, especially in the chin department.

Because he got knocked out in one fight?

Where was the lack of chin in the Sonnen, Bonnar or Okami fight?

I like how no-one mentioned Andersons declining chin before he got knocked out.

 

[The5thgod]

put it this way before he faced Weidman Anderson killed Stephan Bonnar was anybody calling him old then? NO, to most sherdoggers when a great loses his first fight his career is done which is stupid

first fight Anderson was too cocky and it cost him, second fight Chris did a goat check and it broke Silva's leg

all that being said teh Chris is better but that's not taking anything away from Silva he can still beat anyone in the division on any given day

its the same logic that goes if Vitor beats teh Chris then he was just overrated from the beginning but of course nobody was saying that when he tooled Machida

Machida would win a rematch.

 

[jluc]

Consider it this way.

Do you think 30-years-old Silva beats 40-years-old Weidman? If you do, than Silva just got old. Otherwise, Weidman is the better of them.

 

[DespicablePeep]

Thread lacks significant context. Get back to me when Weidman is doing this well, 36 fights deep.

Agree, I think Weidman is a great fighter with some flaws like most, I think his cardio will be his downfall, and he did fight an older version of Anderson Silva.

 

[tenniswhiz]

Because he got knocked out in one fight?

Where was the lack of chin in the Sonnen, Bonnar or Okami fight?

I like how no-one mentioned Andersons declining chin before he got knocked out.

He was floored by Chael's weak jabs. At one point he was on all four's eating shots and in danger of a stoppage.
Okami didn't tag him.
IMO, and I said so then, that was an awful risk he took against Bonnar and could have been disastrous. He failed to even move his head and got tagged; IMO, a few millimeters or a different angle and he could have gone out from that.

Also, understand that a lot of things don't get noticed until you can see them in the rearview mirror.
It happens during every stock market crash. When something is as good as it can get, there is only one direction to go, which is WAY DOWN.

And lastly, Weidman is a strong mofo and hits hard. I think he could KO anyone in the UFC at any weight class, if he caught them clean, including Jon Jones. He has serious power.

 

[campbecc]

There's no way to know because Anderson was well past his athletic prime when they fought. I'm not saying I know Weidman couldn't have beaten Anderson in his prime but a guy in his late 30's who has been fighting for over 15 years is not in his prime.

Edit: reason for edit, a typo I typed 25 not 15.

 

[tekara]

this topic is new.

 

[Baianada]

Still, even if you erase the weird part of those two fights out your memory, you'll see that Anderson didn't have much for Weidman. Got taken down and GnP'd, knocked down in the clinch and didn't land anything significant.

Just like Chael Sonnen. How those fights turned out to be exactly...

Silva is the very definition of a finisher, he doesn't care about beating you on points. He will read you (even if that means eating some shots) and then he'll finish you.

Weidman just got lucky that Silva decided to literally dance around in the first fight and in the second that freak accident happened.

Those two fights proved pretty much nothing on who's the better fighter.