Movies Serious Movie Discussion

[Spawned_Fighter]

could disappear with one forum move (which happened with my old Classic Film 101 threads and which I was reminded of with this most recent forum migration)

the work put into those! when screencaps and all. i had a couple bookmarked too
shame.

 

[Yotsuya]

Kameradschaft (1931)

Watched this one on the recommendation of one Robert Eggers. I have to say I agree, the 1.19:1 fits absolutely perfectly with the content of the film. With this tight aspect ratio comes a verticality and a sense of confinement which captures the incredibly claustrophobic space of the films' mineshafts and smokestacks.

The plot is nice and simple. After the First World War tensions remain high on the Franco-German border. When a fire breaks out on the French side of a mine, an underground explosion traps the workers inside. The German miners overcome these national, jingoist differences to rescue their French comrades from danger. There are some sub-plots within this designed to generate some tension and allow us to specially identify with some of the characters. With this story the film sets up some really dramatic set-piece moments inside the mine, while ultimately crafting an extremely touching human tale.

Like the aspect ratio, pretty much everything about Kameradschaft is extremely compact for this kind of catastrophe/rescue spectacle and yet it has more heart than 99% of the movies that followed in that genre. I think it might have to do with the pre- Spanish civil war/pre-WW2/pre-Stalinist leftist enthusiasm, energy and optimism that's really captivating.

 

[Rimbaud82]

Like the aspect ratio, pretty much everything about Kameradschaft is extremely compact for this kind of catastrophe/rescue spectacle and yet it has more heart than 99% of the movies that followed in that genre. I think it might have to do with the pre- Spanish civil war/pre-WW2/pre-Stalinist leftist enthusiasm, energy and optimism that's really captivating.

I agree completely, just feels so damn genuine.

 

[Rimbaud82]

Black Robe (1991)

Thought this was a really good film, providing a dark and unsentimental representation of colonial interactions in 17th century North America. The film (based on a book I have since ordered) concerns Father LaForgue, a young Jesuit priest as he undertakes a dangerous journey deep into the Canadian wilderness to reach a remote French mission. He is accompanied on this journey by Daniel, another Frenchman, who has hopes of training as a Jesuit back in Europe afterwards. The two white-men are to be led through this vast landscape by a group of Algonquin guides. What becomes apparent along the way is the complete cultural discordance between the two peoples. LaForgue is stern, intellectual man. Hard and inflexible in his faith he is utterly convinced in the mission to bring Christianity and European civilisation to this New World. Yet the Alqonquin natives have no need for this European God or the promised afterlife, they have their own spiritual beliefs formed and grounded within their own land. Just as LaForgue looks on the native religion as primitive superstition, the Alconquin shaman looks at this "black robe" as an evil demon. With these characterisations film possesses a strong sense of historical immediacy. Through the early modern Christianity of this Jesuit priest and the spiritual perspectives of the Natives, it is clear that neither of these people are 'modern' like us. Their way of thinking is alien. At it's core the film is a study of collision and conflict between two utterly different world-views and spiritual systems. They don't just have "different beliefs", they view the world in entirely different ways which cannot be reconciled to one another. However, it's not to say the characters - whether native or european - are static. Through the shared experience of this brutal wilderness there are subtle, but meaningful shifts in perspective which alter their attitudes towards one another even if, as I say, the two socio-religious systems can never actually be harmoniously reconciled.

It is a Canadian/Australian production and it's very clear it did not have the biggest budget, but on the whole it was extremely well done considering those constraints. Of course, it is still far from a perfect film as far as depictions of indigenous north american peoples and there is still plenty to criticise on that front, but on the whole I found that it did a good job of avoiding colonial condescension. Among other things it goes too far in showing how brutal the Iroqouis were, stereotyping them as violent warmongers. But I found that it also did well to avoid falling into the pit of the noble savage tropes either. The indigenous peoples are shown as being deeply connected to the north American landscape, but they don't live in some Utopian garden of Eden either. They are clever and highly resourceful, but this is a tough, subsistence way of life. On the whole it is an engaging film which takes a realistic look at this brutal period of history without glamorising it. I was very impressed.

 

[Yotsuya]

Among other things it goes too far in showing how brutal the Iroqouis were, stereotyping them as violent warmongers.

I think there's a scene in the movie in which a westerner condemns the Iroqouis brutality towards Alconquins and his Alconquin companion says something like that given a chance Alconquin people would do exactly the same for the Iroqouis and that's just how things are over here. So the movie does not portray the Iroqouis as brutal warmongers, but Native Americans as a brutal warrior culture, what it very much was in most cases. I have two friends who are great Native American sympathisers and who have spent years studying the subject. Both say, that Native American brutality is usually way downplayed in movies and not the other way around. Both also love Black Robe.

 

[Rimbaud82]

I think there's a scene in the movie in which a westerner condemns the Iroqouis brutality towards Alconquins and his Alconquin companion says something like that given a chance Alconquin people would do exactly the same for the Iroqouis and that's just how things are over here. So the movie does not portray the Iroqouis as brutal warmongers, but Native Americans as a brutal warrior culture, what it very much was in most cases.

Yep exactly, and that is a good scene. It is a brutal warrior culture. That's why I say that it avoids falling in to the trap of noble savages. They are as violent as the Europeans are to one another, in it's own way that is an equally brutal warrior culture. I feel the film did a good job of being even-handed in this way, as well as in it's treatment of the spiritual practices of the two.

I have two friends who are great Native American sympathisers and who have spent years studying the subject. Both say, that Native American brutality is usually way downplayed in movies and not the other way around. Both also love Black Robe.

But it does portray them like that. They don't just attack their rivals, they immediately torture and kill their captives in the most brutally horrible way (only that they manage to escape). That's simply not something the Iroquois did to their captives, at least to their native captives. There is historical evidence of Europeans being made to run through a gauntlet like the one in the film, but they wouldn't necessarily massacre a young child, or plan to burn a woman alive at the stake for no reason like is shown in the film. In fact native captives were often integrated into the community in order to replace the perceived spiritual loss of their own dead killed in battle or by disease. On the whole it was a good portrayal of the violence of this period, but that was much too gratuitous. Narratively it did serve a purpose of bonding LaFourge with the native chief, but it was very much a brutal stereotype which went beyond simple violence in war.

edit: but it's not an area of history I am especially familiar with, so I could well be wrong on that point. I have read about these "mourning wars" in the past.

 

[Yotsuya]

Yep exactly, and that is a good scene. It is a brutal warrior culture. That's why I say that it avoids falling in to the trap of noble savages. They are as violent as the Europeans are to one another, in it's own way that is an equally brutal warrior culture. I feel the film did a good job of being even-handed in this way, as well as in it's treatment of the spiritual practices of the two.



But it does portray them like that. They don't just attack their rivals, they immediately torture and kill their captives in the most brutally horrible way (only that they manage to escape). That's simply not something the Iroquois did to their captives, at least to their native captives. There is historical evidence of Europeans being made to run through a gauntlet like the one in the film, but they wouldn't necessarily massacre a young child, or plan to burn a woman alive at the stake for no reason like is shown in the film. In fact native captives were often integrated into the community in order to replace the perceived spiritual loss of their own dead killed in battle or by disease. On the whole it was a good portrayal of the violence of this period, but that was much too gratuitous. Narratively it did serve a purpose of bonding LaFourge with the native chief, but it was very much a brutal stereotype which went beyond simple violence in war.

edit: but it's not an area of history I am especially familiar with, so I could well be wrong on that point. I have read about these "mourning wars" in the past.

I'm afraid I have to take the knowledge of two experts over yours. Also, it's very much an established historical fact, that many tribes habitually tortured adult members of rival tribes when ever possible and killed children who were too young to take care of themselves. They would only adopt children of certain age. So I find it very believable that Iroqouis would do the same.

 

[Rimbaud82]

I'm afraid I have to take the knowledge of two experts over yours. Also, it's very much an established historical fact, that many tribes habitually tortured adult members of rival tribes when ever possible and killed children who were too young to take care of themselves. They would only adopt children of certain age. So I find it very believable that Iroqouis would do the same.

 

[Rimbaud82]

Continuing the theme of films about Jesuits in the New World interacting with the native peoples I watched.....

The Mission (1986)

Visually very impressive and thematically important, but despite this the film didn't leave much of an impression I have to say. Very much less than the sum of it's parts. It's about a Jesuit Mission deep in the jungle which falls on the border between the territories of the Spanish and Portuguese Empires. As the film opens the mission is located in Spanish territory. The Jesuits, led by Father Gabriel (Jeremy Irons), have succeeded in converting the local Guaraní people to Christianity. In addition to it's religious function this mission serves as a safe haven from the incursions of brutal slave traders in that region. Slavery is legally outlawed in the Spanish Empire (though not the Portuguese), but is very much a reality in practice. Rodrigo Mendoza (De Niro) is one of these slave traders at the start of the film, but as a result of events in his personal life he ends up becoming a Jesuit himself at Father Gabriel's outpost. When that region is sold from Spain to Portugal, the mission comes under threat from the Portuguese Empire...

As I say, I just found this one completely flat and uninspiring despite the grand humanist themes. The narrative just limps along without focus until a rather uninspiring climax. De Niro's character arc I just found ridiculous. Not to say people can't change dramatically, but the pace at which it takes pace in the film meant I just couldn't buy into it. Have seen some very high praise for it which I find very surprising, particularly from religious folks but it even won the Palme D'Or. Just a disappointing meh from me.

 

[moreorless87]

I do tend to put The Mission along with stuff like Chariots of Fire and The Last Emperor as slick "message" period films which end up rather lacking in selling their own drama. The main reason its remembered I spose is the score, especially Gabriel's Oboe that's up there with Morricone's best work.

 

[Rimbaud82]

The Flight of the Eagle (1982)

Jan Troell's depiction of S.A. Andrée's doomed Arctic expedition of 1897 perfectly captures a man "subjugated by his own will" and ultimately crushed by his own hubris. As with Troell's earlier masterpieces The Emigrants (1971) and The New Land (1972) it is deeply lyrical, yet with an earthy simplicity which both undercuts and enhances it's more poetic sensibilities. At it's core this a tragic human story and Troell conveys this with wonderful directness. I have to say it seems surprisingly forgotten, perhaps not quite to the level of his those earlier films but excellent in it's own right.

Swedish engineer Salomon August Andrée has devised a plan to reach the North Pole via a hydrogen balloon. Having lagged behind in Arctic exploration the Swedes were extremely enthusiastic about the proposal, with all the prestige and nationalist pride it would bring if successful. Despite numerous early warning signs Andrée decided to go ahead with his expedition, taking two younger men along with him. With no way to steer the balloon and several critical flaws with the design itself, the men crash on the drifting pack-ice after only a couple of days. Woefully under-prepared they attempt to make their way back on foot on to safety. Battling the brutal Arctic landscape, the harsh weather and bouts of disease the relations between the three men becomes increasingly strained. None of them will survive the expedition. Troell gives us ambition, pride and scientific arrogance all consumed by the vast, oppressive emptiness of the Arctic. Yet as much as it was Andrée's lack of respect for the forces of nature and his own egotism which would lead to his death, and the deaths of his companions, he was also helplessly trapped by social pressures beyond his control - Swedish nationalism, public expectation and pressure from his wealthy backers all played their part as well. The film is critical of Andréé, but ultimately it is a tragic story on many levels.

Really good film which should more widely known, Max Von Sydow puts in another excellent performance as Andrée as well.

 

[europe1]

A film that has been on my list for a while, but having recently watched Mishima's own Patriotism (1966) I thought the time was right. And wow! Schrader has blown me away with one. A brilliantly conceived and perfectly executed biography of Mishima leading up to his failed coup and ritual suicide. A life turned "into a line of poetry written with a splash of blood". More than a simple biopic it is an interrogation of his life and art and the manner in which the two were ultimately intertwined. In an innovative style blending black-and-white flashbacks, hyper-stylised recreations of his fiction and colour scenes of the last day of his life, Schrader recreates the thought-world of this enigmatic writer. I am sure enough has been written about this one already, but it was absolutely brilliant and with a fantastic soundtrack from Phillip Glass to go along with the innovative plot and sumptuous visuals.

Yeah I didn't really know what to think about Schrader's Mishima. But it certainly was stylized up the wazzu.

I remember thinking that there was a weird disparity between Mishima's internal motivations and his goals.

Mishima the person is extremely hung-up on his "bodily beauty", it's nature, maintenance and threatening degradation. However, what Mishima wants to achieve is the restoration of the Divine Emperor. Wait... how do these two things connect exactly? I don't really see how one thing leads to the other? Is there some sort of weird relationship between those two that only the Nipponese understands? <45>

One theory that I developed is... is Schrader fucking with Mishima? As in, mocking him?

Mishima doesn't want to see the Emperor restored. He just wants to die in some socially prestigious way. His vexation with his own beauty and body has driven him to suicide, to die in some beautiful way. The Emperor stuff is just a cover-up to achieve this end... even though Mishima doesn't even realize this himself.

Another indication of this could be the disparity between Mishima's hyper-stylized visions and the real-world. In the visions, everything is beautiful and stylized. However, in the real-world, things can look absurd or even comedic. Take that scene where Mishima and his fanatics are crammed inside their vehicle, heading off towards their mission. It looks almost... garish, the contrast between their posh uniforms, their zealous super-serious singing, and the fact that they're crammed inside like its a clown-car. Am I supposed to find this amusing?

Man... I can't tell if Schrader is making fun at his expense or not! It's so confusing!

Black Robe (1991)

Yup, this movie is really good. And the historicity of it is quite delicious.

I really like that scene where the Jesuit shows them writing and they're freaked out at what it can do.

Also, I thought the ending was really dramatically impactful. The plague has utterly upended an Indian society. With their whole world capsized, their ready to have a come-to-Jesus-moment. We see a montage of their weather-bitten faces. Then it fades out. And we learn that everyone died of the plague after it all ended. Aouch.

Now I would like to engage you in a 10-post discussion about warfare and brutality in tribalistic Native Americ... oh, shit, Yotsuya has already done that? Well damn... now I don't know what to say.

As I say, I just found this one completely flat and uninspiring despite the grand humanist themes

This is true.

But hey! At least the Vatican likes it!

The Flight of the Eagle (1982)

Jan Troell's depiction of S.A. Andrée's doomed Arctic expedition of 1897 perfectly captures a man "subjugated by his own will" and ultimately crushed by his own hubris. As with Troell's earlier masterpieces The Emigrants (1971) and The New Land (1972) it is deeply lyrical, yet with an earthy simplicity which both undercuts and enhances it's more poetic sensibilities. At it's core this a tragic human story and Troell conveys this with wonderful directness. I have to say it seems surprisingly forgotten, perhaps not quite to the level of his those earlier films but excellent in it's own right.

Yeah, Flight of the Eagles is a forgotten movie. By the World. By its native country of Sweden. Even by Me! I've seen this movie from start to finish, but... damned if I know what to say about it.

I remember thinking it didn't really have the cops or dramatics to pull of its themes or allusions. Can't really pinpoint why. They are in a vast emptiness that dwarfs and is deleterious to mankind, mocking their hubris and ambitions. But that impression never really hits homes.

Btw, it has an utterly inane Swedish title. Literally translated as: Engineer Andrée's Aerial Voyage. When I first saw that title, I thought it was some a kids movie or maybe a Documentary or something. It's so bland and slavishly descriptive, more like an unimaginative premise than a title. Then I thought, why the hell is Max Von Sydow staring in a kids flic?

 

[Rimbaud82]

Yeah I didn't really know what to think about Schrader's Mishima. But it certainly was stylized up the wazzu.

I remember thinking that there was a weird disparity between Mishima's internal motivations and his goals.

Mishima the person is extremely hung-up on his "bodily beauty", it's nature, maintenance and threatening degradation. However, what Mishima wants to achieve is the restoration of the Divine Emperor. Wait... how do these two things connect exactly? I don't really see how one thing leads to the other? Is there some sort of weird relationship between those two that only the Nipponese understands? <45>

I think it was just the two different strands of his personal philosophy, his political ideals and his personal which to him are both intertwined in his weird kind of 'self-fashioning'.

You might see it as a weird disparity, but to Mishima it is all connected through his idealized fantasies of pre-modern Japanese culture. He thinks that in living his life that way in terms of his writing along with "bodily beauty", physical fitness and so on, he is living the Bushido code - sword and pen - like the old samurai. The Emperor is of course in his mind the political representative of all this, devotion to the Emperor as a Living God is devotion to the old ways of Japan before it's modernization. Of course, it's all a load of idealized, ahistorical nonsense but in Mishima's mind he is literally acting out this philosophy both through his personal life, and through his political aims. Of course, if you were to psychologically deconstruct Mishima - which Schrader kind of does through his literature in the film - then yeah I agree there becomes a disconnect between his actual various psychological complexes which all fed into his actions and between the political end goal.

One theory that I developed is... is Schrader fucking with Mishima? As in, mocking him?

Mishima doesn't want to see the Emperor restored. He just wants to die in some socially prestigious way. His vexation with his own beauty and body has driven him to suicide, to die in some beautiful way. The Emperor stuff is just a cover-up to achieve this end... even though Mishima doesn't even realize this himself.

Another indication of this could be the disparity between Mishima's hyper-stylized visions and the real-world. In the visions, everything is beautiful and stylized. However, in the real-world, things can look absurd or even comedic. Take that scene where Mishima and his fanatics are crammed inside their vehicle, heading off towards their mission. It looks almost... garish, the contrast between their posh uniforms, their zealous super-serious singing, and the fact that they're crammed inside like its a clown-car. Am I supposed to find this amusing?

I think all of what you said is right. Ultimately Mishima just wants the perceived prestige of killing himself in this way where he becomes some kind of martyr for a 'purer' pre-modern Japan. As far as coup attempts go it is pretty woeful and he must surely have known that it wasn't going to actually work. On some level anyway.

Man... I can't tell if Schrader is making fun at his expense or not! It's so confusing!

Yeah, I don't think he was trying to take the piss of him per se, but that's an element. We are supposed to find it absurd. I think Schrader is clearly fascinated by a character like Mishima, so on some level there is a degree of identification or understanding at least, with their sense of alienation, but like with Bickle and other characters they are ultimately batshit crazy lol. That last scene is a good example, I think we can pretty strongly identify with the general's WTF reaction to what he is witnessing, but because we have spent in the entire film inside recreations of Mishima's head for the most part, we also identify to a degree with Mishima as well...through some weird fucked up internal logic of his - ie. living out his philosophy - it somehow makes sense that he would ritually disembowel himself. But again, he is also batshit crazy.

I thought it was interesting that Schrader chose to end on the shot of him screaming in this kind of agonized determination. Rather than recreate what happened next, ie. Mishima committed seppuku and then his second failed to sever his after 3 attempts etc. That would have been pretty horrific, and depicting that would surely have left a different impression of the event. So it's also telling how he chose to depict that, whatever his motivations it does take something to willfully kill yourself via disembowelment. Seems like Schrader focused on that.

I liked the film a hell of a lot.

Yup, this movie is really good. And the historicity of it is quite delicious.

I really like that scene where the Jesuit shows them writing and they're freaked out at what it can do.

Also, I thought the ending was really dramatically impactful. The plague has utterly upended an Indian society. With their whole world capsized, their ready to have a come-to-Jesus-moment. We see a montage of their weather-bitten faces. Then it fades out. And we learn that everyone died of the plague after it all ended. Aouch.

Agreed, really good ending. Also the fact that LaFourge answers whether he loves them like he did shows that even though he still has his Western attitude of superiority, the events he experienced did germinate the start of some kind of change within him, even if it is only slight.

This is true.

But hey! At least the Vatican likes it!

I seen that it was on their list, lets just say I won't be taking the Vaticans film recommendations any time soon <45>

Yeah, Flight of the Eagles is a forgotten movie. By the World. By its native country of Sweden. Even by Me! I've seen this movie from start to finish, but... damned if I know what to say about it.

I remember thinking it didn't really have the cops or dramatics to pull of its themes or allusions. Can't really pinpoint why. They are in a vast emptiness that dwarfs and is deleterious to mankind, mocking their hubris and ambitions. But that impression never really hits homes.

Maybe give it another watch, I liked it a lot! Have you seen The Emigrants/The New Land too? What were your impressions of those.

Btw, it has an utterly inane Swedish title. Literally translated as: Engineer Andrée's Aerial Voyage. When I first saw that title, I thought it was some a kids movie or maybe a Documentary or something. It's so bland and slavishly descriptive, more like an unimaginative premise than a title. Then I thought, why the hell is Max Von Sydow staring in a kids flic?

Yeah I saw that title on the page where I found, thought it was weirdly matter of fact lol.

 

[Rimbaud82]

Burn! (1969)

A great Pontocorvo film about the tragic cycles of European colonialism on the fictional Caribbean island of Queimada. The name of this island - the Portuguese for burned - derives from it's colonial origins. We are told that when the Portuguese first tried to colonise the place they had to burn it to the ground in order to crush the fierce native resistance. Once they razed the island they turned it into a slave plantation. It is said that the rocks of the island are white from the bones of slaves who died making the crossing. As the film kicks off in the 19th century this now lucrative island is controlled by a class of wealthy white/mestizo landowners, but is currently experiencing trouble with rebels. In 1844 Sir William Walker (Marlon Brando) arrives as an agent of the British Admiralty, intending to manipulate events on the island to the favour of the British Empire. Having identified a charismatic leader in one Jose Dolores he incites a slave revolt and pushes through the establishment of an independent Republic of Queimada, thus opening the island up to exploitation by the Antilles Royal Sugar Company. The slaves are freed as part of the new constitution, but are convinced to remain as workers on the plantations. His job seemingly complete Walker then leaves for his next assignment in Indochina. However, ten years later he is once again brought back to Quiemada. This time directly in the employ of the sugar company, but backed by the British Navy. The freed slaves have risen up once again and now threaten British interests in the region. History will now repeat itself it seems...

Queimada is not of course a real place, but imaginatively acts as a kind of colonial archetype. A history of Western exploitation in microcosm. As you would expect from a Pontecorvo film it takes a very Marxist, anti-colonial attitude to the events. While this one is nowhere near the same level as The Battle of Algiers (1966) it was still another good showing from Pontecorvo. I suppose I would place it on a similar level to the only other film of his I have seen, Operación Ogro (1979). The taut narrative - placing everything almost entirely on this one tiny island - works very well. The film is very manageable despite being rather epic in scope, dealing with huge imperial themes across the span of a decade. It is a well-written story and is very well told for the most part. Brando is also excellent in this one. He actually turned down Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969) to do this one. Likewise the actor who plays Jose Dolores (Evaristo Márquez) is outstanding. All the more so as he was an illiterate herdsman with no acting experience before Pontecorvo found him. What stops the film being even better is that at times it begins to feel more like a political treatise than an emotional story. Brando's character will often deliver long realms of dialogue ruminating on the nature of colonialism and of history in a really weirdly obvious way. Brando's acting is so good that it doesn't actually come across as bad as it could have done, but it still just struck me as really over-explaining. Maybe some audience members require this I don't know, but I feel it comes across with the events depicted anyway so would have been far better left unsaid.

Nonetheless, still a very good film on the whole. I started to watch this one time previously but stopped after a while because the quality was very poor. I recently found an excellent HD cut. What I watched before was the English version which is a lot shorter, the one I watched this time was a strange hybrid edit which includes the English scenes but then extends these with scenes from the longer Italian version. Once I got past the initial weirdness of suddenly sliding into subtitles and back I was actually glad I found this version. You lose Brando's wonderful voice unfortunately but the extra scenes actually add a lot more depth to the story.

 

[Rimbaud82]

The Fighting Prince of Donegal (1966)

Dreadful...boring, cliched, melodramatic, ahistorical shite. A completely laughable portrayal of the Nine Years War. To be fair this is a Disney film, so I probably shouldn't have expected anything better. Nor am I the intended audience I suppose. In my defence I didn't realise that until the opening credits, but I was excited when I saw that there was a film on this fascinating period of Irish history. Unfortunately wish had stayed away...

 

[Rimbaud82]

good site I have came across - https://historyfilms.co.uk

 

[chickenluver]

@Rimbaud82 I want to recommend some Chinese films, as I have a fondness for them, even though I've only dipped a toe. First a tiny bit of clarification and historical background. When talking about "Chinese cinema" you're really talking about three separate countries all with their own film industries, utilizing three or more languages. That said, they are certainly interrelated, sometimes directly so with individuals born in one country working mostly in another country. For example, the director of Legend of the Mountain, King Hu (a favorite of mine) was born on the mainland, got his start in Hong Kong, then later worked mostly in Taiwan. As far as I can tell he never made a film on the mainland. So all these films can be group under the umbrella of "Chinese cinema" or "Chinese language cinema," there's nothing wrong with that, although in doing so it becomes almost as vast as "English language cinema," perhaps even more so.

Now, you've already got some great recommendations in the likes of Bruce Lee and Wong Kar-wai films. The Wong films in particular I imagine will be right up your alley. So I'm here to praise some mainland films. As far as I know there's not much in the way of classic cinema from the time immediately following the Civil War and Communist takeover up until after the end of the Cultural Revolution. Not that surprising considering the political and social turmoil of those decades, as well as strict censorship and propaganda. But for a brief period of time I think mainland directors were making some of the best and most daring films in the world, in a wholly unique style.

Essentially what happened was during the Cultural Revolution higher education broke down, and the film industry was heavily restricted. Beijing film academy was able to admit new students in 1978, and four years later they became the first graduating class in over a decade, eventually becoming known as the fifth generation of mainland Chinese filmmakers. The films I want to recommend are Zhang Yimou's Red Sorghum (1987) and Raise the Red Lantern (1991), as well as Chen Kaige's Farewell My Concubine (1993). These are very much not martial arts action films. Red Sorghum is a very strong debut from Zhang, while Red Lantern and Farewell are among my all time favorites. A slight word of warning, the primary subject matter of Farewell is Beijing opera, which, to put it lightly, can be something of an acquired taste, and possibly even irritating to those not receptive to it. I'd also like to recommend Tian Zhuangzhuang's The Horse Thief (1986), but unfortunately I think it would be rather difficult at this time to track down an English-subtitled copy with a print worthy of the cinematography and the Tibetan landscape. Apparently a restoration of that film actually screened at Cannes last year, so hopefully it will become more widely available soon. I was able to find a blu-ray release which looks pristine from the screenshots I saw, but it says it was limited to 350 copies (?) and everywhere I look it's out of stock.

Finally, if you're interested in more films from King Hu and aren't dissuaded by martial arts cinema, you could go all the way back to Come Drink with Me (1966), an all time classic, or possibly more suited to your taste, A Touch of Zen (1971). The latter is technically a martial arts film, but the run-time is not dominated by action, and overall it's a highly mystical film.

 

[Rimbaud82]

@Rimbaud82 I want to recommend some Chinese films, as I have a fondness for them, even though I've only dipped a toe. First a tiny bit of clarification and historical background. When talking about "Chinese cinema" you're really talking about three separate countries all with their own film industries, utilizing three or more languages. That said, they are certainly interrelated, sometimes directly so with individuals born in one country working mostly in another country. For example, the director of Legend of the Mountain, King Hu (a favorite of mine) was born on the mainland, got his start in Hong Kong, then later worked mostly in Taiwan. As far as I can tell he never made a film on the mainland. So all these films can be group under the umbrella of "Chinese cinema" or "Chinese language cinema," there's nothing wrong with that, although in doing so it becomes almost as vast as "English language cinema," perhaps even more so.

Now, you've already got some great recommendations in the likes of Bruce Lee and Wong Kar-wai films. The Wong films in particular I imagine will be right up your alley. So I'm here to praise some mainland films. As far as I know there's not much in the way of classic cinema from the time immediately following the Civil War and Communist takeover up until after the end of the Cultural Revolution. Not that surprising considering the political and social turmoil of those decades, as well as strict censorship and propaganda. But for a brief period of time I think mainland directors were making some of the best and most daring films in the world, in a wholly unique style.

Essentially what happened was during the Cultural Revolution higher education broke down, and the film industry was heavily restricted. Beijing film academy was able to admit new students in 1978, and four years later they became the first graduating class in over a decade, eventually becoming known as the fifth generation of mainland Chinese filmmakers. The films I want to recommend are Zhang Yimou's Red Sorghum (1987) and Raise the Red Lantern (1991), as well as Chen Kaige's Farewell My Concubine (1993). These are very much not martial arts action films. Red Sorghum is a very strong debut from Zhang, while Red Lantern and Farewell are among my all time favorites. A slight word of warning, the primary subject matter of Farewell is Beijing opera, which, to put it lightly, can be something of an acquired taste, and possibly even irritating to those not receptive to it. I'd also like to recommend Tian Zhuangzhuang's The Horse Thief (1986), but unfortunately I think it would be rather difficult at this time to track down a English-subtitled copy with a print worthy of the cinematography and the Tibetan landscape. Apparently a restoration of that film actually screened at Cannes last year, so hopefully it will become more widely available soon. I was able to find a blu-ray release which looks pristine from the screenshots I saw, but it says it was limited to 350 copies (?) and everywhere I look it's out of stock.

Finally, if you're interested in more films from King Hu and aren't dissuaded by martial arts cinema, you could go all the way back to Come Drink with Me (1966), an all time classic, or possibly more suited to your taste, A Touch of Zen (1971). The latter is technically a martial arts film, but the run-time is not dominated by action, and overall it's a highly mystical film.

Thanks for the in depth post mate, I will definitely have a look at your suggestions.

 

[Rimbaud82]

Cobra Verde (1987)

This one follows in the vein Aguirre (1972) and Fitzcarraldo (1982), acting as a a kind of concluding piece in Werner Herzog's trilogy of colonial derangement. Where Aguirre depicts a pure descent into the heart of darkness and Fitzcarraldo is a somewhat more romantic presentation of a crazy dreamer, Cobra Verde seems to be somewhere in the middle. It depicts the story of Francisco Manoel da Silva, a Brazilian rancher who is driven to banditry after his ranch is destroyed by drought. Initially he takes a brutal job as a gold miner, but kills the boss after he learns he has been exploiting him. After this he becomes known as cobra verbe (the green snake), the most infamous bandit in the Brazilian badlands. At this point early on the film plays out more like some surrealist Western, Herzog meets Jodorowsky. It's really quite strange. Soon enough da Silva gets a job as an overseer on a slave plantation, after impressing the boss by subduing an escaping slave through his force of personality alone.

However, after a time he is discovered as the notorious outlaw. All three of the plantation owners daughters are found to be pregnant, seduced by the green snake. Rather than go to the trouble of putting him on trial, the powerful slave owners send da Silva on what they think will be a suicide mission to West Africa. He is tasked with re-opening the slave trade in the hostile Kingdom of Dahomey. However, da Silva is miraculously successful. He becomes tangled in the local politics and manages to restart the slave-trade, amassing significant power for himself in the process. Yet the tides of history are against him. The slave trade has been abolished in almost all parts of the world, threatening to sweep away all that he has built up. Whether he evens cares is another matter; he is a man far from home, sent by authority outside his control, to this sweltering, oppressively strange place. Da Silva is an interesting protagonist, he has been wronged and exploited himself, yet he is obviously still directly complicit in that most despicable industry of slavery.

It was a strange one. Narratively I felt it was a bit undercooked. Even by Herzog standards it has a strange rhythm, it could be somewhat frustrating the way in the way events simply 'happen' with very very little in the way of exposition. However, it still has those moments of ecstatic truth which Herzog so wonderfully portrays. The final sequences are some of the best Herzog has ever done.

 

[HenryFlower]

@Rimbaud82 I want to recommend some Chinese films, as I have a fondness for them, even though I've only dipped a toe. First a tiny bit of clarification and historical background. When talking about "Chinese cinema" you're really talking about three separate countries all with their own film industries, utilizing three or more languages. That said, they are certainly interrelated, sometimes directly so with individuals born in one country working mostly in another country. For example, the director of Legend of the Mountain, King Hu (a favorite of mine) was born on the mainland, got his start in Hong Kong, then later worked mostly in Taiwan. As far as I can tell he never made a film on the mainland. So all these films can be group under the umbrella of "Chinese cinema" or "Chinese language cinema," there's nothing wrong with that, although in doing so it becomes almost as vast as "English language cinema," perhaps even more so.

Now, you've already got some great recommendations in the likes of Bruce Lee and Wong Kar-wai films. The Wong films in particular I imagine will be right up your alley. So I'm here to praise some mainland films. As far as I know there's not much in the way of classic cinema from the time immediately following the Civil War and Communist takeover up until after the end of the Cultural Revolution. Not that surprising considering the political and social turmoil of those decades, as well as strict censorship and propaganda. But for a brief period of time I think mainland directors were making some of the best and most daring films in the world, in a wholly unique style.

Essentially what happened was during the Cultural Revolution higher education broke down, and the film industry was heavily restricted. Beijing film academy was able to admit new students in 1978, and four years later they became the first graduating class in over a decade, eventually becoming known as the fifth generation of mainland Chinese filmmakers. The films I want to recommend are Zhang Yimou's Red Sorghum (1987) and Raise the Red Lantern (1991), as well as Chen Kaige's Farewell My Concubine (1993). These are very much not martial arts action films. Red Sorghum is a very strong debut from Zhang, while Red Lantern and Farewell are among my all time favorites. A slight word of warning, the primary subject matter of Farewell is Beijing opera, which, to put it lightly, can be something of an acquired taste, and possibly even irritating to those not receptive to it. I'd also like to recommend Tian Zhuangzhuang's The Horse Thief (1986), but unfortunately I think it would be rather difficult at this time to track down a English-subtitled copy with a print worthy of the cinematography and the Tibetan landscape. Apparently a restoration of that film actually screened at Cannes last year, so hopefully it will become more widely available soon. I was able to find a blu-ray release which looks pristine from the screenshots I saw, but it says it was limited to 350 copies (?) and everywhere I look it's out of stock.

Finally, if you're interested in more films from King Hu and aren't dissuaded by martial arts cinema, you could go all the way back to Come Drink with Me (1966), an all time classic, or possibly more suited to your taste, A Touch of Zen (1971). The latter is technically a martial arts film, but the run-time is not dominated by action, and overall it's a highly mystical film.

any thoughts on Jia Zhangke? i was thinking about setting aside what looks to be a rainy Monday next week to watch Still Life, A Touch of Sin, & Ash is Purest White.

i’ve also had Hu Bo’s An Elephant Sitting Still sitting on my shelf, but i’ve been a mega pussy about the runtime. i hope to stop being such a coward & just watch it already.

have you watched Long Day’s Journey Into Night yet? it might be my favorite film from the last five years. The Forbidden Room & Phantom Thread are the only other movies from the last five years i can think of that i might like more? idk, i haven’t even last watched Phantom Thread in at least a year, so Long Day’s Journey Into Night definitely has it beat out via recency bias. it honestly doesn’t even matter, now i’m just rambling when i could be simply saying: Long Day’s Journey Into Night is an amazing fucking movie.

i need to get my hands on Bi Gan’s debut, Kaili Blues