Serena Williams cries "discrimination" over drug testing

[Ultra O’Dia]

aside from the fact that she is built like a man, does anyone know whether they test repeatedly as a tournament progresses? It seemed like the article said, “its time to get tested again” because it was the Finals... maybe i inferred too much from that, but if it were the case then someone who goes deep in tournaments would be likely to be the most heavily tested.

 

[Madmick]

What the fuck does that have to do with Serena Williams and her tweet? Gotdammit man, you're going full retard here.

I don't know if you're genuinely confused, or you just upset you're not even trying to understand my arguments. I'm pointing to the power of connotation in the absence of denotative certainty.

Dominant athletes have always complained about mistreatment. Shaq, Bron, TO, tiger-proofing golf courses, every other month some UFC fighter claims that Dana is sticking it to him personally, Barry bonds bitching that people wouldn't pitch to him, etc.

Yes, this is the point. I would argue that most of their complaints are well-founded. She's abusing that by implication of associated language. She's reaching for people like @Leagon who have already accepted and share my reading, but unlike me, are sympathetic to it.

I'm not going to keep debating this with you. There's no point. I think it's probably one of the stupidest things you've ever written. 2 reasons:

1) You take a standard athlete complaint about testing and blow it up into some race-baiting bullshit.
2) You compound your racializing of a tennis tweet into white moralizing to the black community.

Even if the 1st part was just a simple difference of interpretation the 2nd part "To the black community from a white friend...," makes it clear that you're the one fixated on race here. You could disagree with Serena's tweet without also turning it into a personal need to tell the black community what to do from your position as a white person. As I said earlier -

1) What does Serena's tweet have to do with the black community?
2) What does you being white have to do with whatever "advice" you're offering?

Nope, you can miss me with the insinuations and "she's referring to...," you've racialized something that didn't require it so that you could moralize. I don't have time for the backtracking and bullshit.

All of these questions have been answered already, and I'm clearly not backtracking.

I want minorities and others who feel disenfranchised to approach this language with the same extreme scrutiny that whites like me are asked to approach words like "explosive" or "thug" or "you people". If they do not, they will fall prey to unconscious biases, and this will lead them to campaign for causes that amount to crying wolf, and all in service of individuals who would seek to exploit legitimate pain and injustice for personal gain.

 

[Gregolian]

Remember when Pat McAfee got "randomly" tested like 3 times in a season for 2 punts over 60 yards and him laying the wood so badly on a return man he looked like John Lynch re-incarnated?

It totally makes sense to test the person dominating the sport more often.

 

[Leagon]

Well, she can definitely claim that the suspicions are a form of discrimination based on appearance. Just like the Eastern Bloc athletes could claim the suspicions are a form of discrimination based on history. Abstracting that to claims of political or racial discrimination probably isn't a good idea though (Russia tried that and the result was this years ban from the Olympics).

I never said it was a good idea. Just that it wasn't wrong. In a historically white sport, I don't think it's a huge leap to connect discrimination against the physical appearance of one of its few ever noteworthy black athletes to racism.

To be clear, though, I think Serena is doping and I doubt a significant percentage of the testers are consciously or deliberately racist.

 

[Leagon]

I don't know if you're genuinely confused, or you just upset you're not even trying to understand my arguments. I'm pointing to the power of connotation in the absence of denotative certainty.

Yes, this is the point. I would argue that most of their complaints are well-founded. She's abusing that by implication of associated language. She's reaching for people like @Leagon who have already accepted and share my reading, but unlike me, are sympathetic to it.

All of these questions have been answered already, and I'm clearly not backtracking.

I want minorities and others who feel disenfranchised to approach this language with the same extreme scrutiny that whites like me are asked to approach words like "explosive" or "thug" or "you people". If they do not, they will fall prey to unconscious biases, and this will lead them to campaign for causes that amount to crying wolf, and all in service of individuals who would seek to exploit legitimate pain and injustice for personal gain.

Sympathy is the wrong word. Empathy may be better.

I don't feel bad for her. I'm convinced she's doping. I think there's a racial component to it, but she is not the whole race so that doesn't absolve her from the reasons that she could be overtested as an individual.

I just think that her complaint happens to get at a valid larger discussion.

I also think your rhetorical strat of pleading with the black community was bizarre and awful.

 

[sangreporsangre]

I don't think that black people have any responsibility to "call her out" or whatever bullshit, but yea she's gonna do whatever she can to try and delegitimize the random drug testing procedure, much like Trump does whatever he can to delegitimize the press. It's working somewhat on her brain-dead fans, just look at the responses on her tweets. She's the Lance Armstrong of tennis.

 

[vengeful]

They both have Therepeutic Use Exemptions for banned substances. If these giant Bigfoot monsters are that unhealthy they can’t compete without TUE’s that give them an advantages in using banned substances they should get the fuck out of the sport.

Same for Simone Biles. No way should someone have a TUE for attention disorder to freely use stimulants during practice and competition.

These bitches are so deluded they think what they’re doing is perfectly fine. Legal doping FTW.

http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2016...-itf-tues-serena-williams-rio-olympics/61109/

None of those banned substances Serena had a TUE for would give her a competetitve advantage

 

[Gregolian]

Sympathy is the wrong word. Empathy may be better.

I don't feel bad for her. I'm convinced she's doping. I think there's a racial component to it, but she is not the whole race so that doesn't absolve her from the reasons that she could be overtested as an individual.

I just think that her complaint happens to get at a valid larger discussion.

I also think your rhetorical strat of pleading with the black community was bizarre and awful.

I'd agree there was a racial component... if her sister was ALSO getting tested more than everyone else save Serena.

But last I heard she isn't (if Venus is even playing anymore). Look at boxing or MMA. The guys at the top get tested more because they are at the top. Same with football (Pat McAfee is a goddamn punter but every time a punt goes more than 50 yards he gets "randomly" tested).

 

[Madmick]

Sympathy is the wrong word. Empathy may be better.

Earlier you said you "think she has a point" and went on about the scrutiny of black figures indicating an objective bias that may extend to race.

That's sympathy, not empathy. You have modified your stance. I think this is good. I'm speaking to the potential for manipulation by empathy. Now we can wait until Serena clarifies exactly why she thinks she's being targeted by the anti-doping authorities.

I will take her at her word, which is a courtesy that often isn't afforded to whites who try to clarify their positions, and explicitly denounce potentially inflammatory beliefs or implications, but I won't forget her rollout. There was no need to do it this way. She's chumming the water and using an illegal net. She knows what she is doing, here. She is making this about other groups when it should be about her.

 

[Deleted member 391673]

None of those banned substances Serena had a TUE for would give her a competetitve advantage

Why are they banned though?

 

[Madmick]

Why are they banned though?

LOL.

 

[Deleted member 504083]

On average, top female tennis players are said to reach their highest levels of performance at age 24. She's almost 37 now.

Spoiler

 

[44nutman]

I had some to take some court mandated drug classes in my early 20's.
20 weeks I had to go twice a week. IF I got piss tested it cost me 20 bucks. So the first 10 weeks I got piss tested at least once sometimes twice a week. I asked the counselor WTF I have passed them all and this shit is getting expensive . (I was poor then) I was also the only one to get tested most of the time out of a class of maybe 20. My teacher told me I looked like I was still using drugs. Discrimination might have been the wrong word, but its human nature to bitch about being treated differently than everyone else. I mean at her level I am sure there is someone in there with her watching her piss. Hell for my drug class the counselor watched me piss.
Hey hold on, now it makes sense for all my drug tests, the counselor dude just wanted to see my luscious dong. #Metoo

 

[Leagon]

I'd agree there was a racial component... if her sister was ALSO getting tested more than everyone else save Serena.

But last I heard she isn't (if Venus is even playing anymore). Look at boxing or MMA. The guys at the top get tested more because they are at the top. Same with football (Pat McAfee is a goddamn punter but every time a punt goes more than 50 yards he gets "randomly" tested).

Are you saying that West African people don't have more fast twitch muscles? Or that darker skin doesn't enhance the appearance of muscle definition? Aren't bulky, defined muscles still associated with PED use, even though we know many athletes on PEDs, such as endurance athletes, don't have bulky, defined muscles?

Racial component =/= 100% due to race. If race is only a part of the picture, then there will be people across races who are treated differently.

 

[Leagon]

Earlier you said you "think she has a point" and went on about the scrutiny of black figures indicating an objective bias that may extend to race.

That's sympathy, not empathy. You have modified your stance. I think this is good. I'm speaking to the potential for manipulation by empathy. Now we can wait until Serena clarifies exactly why she thinks she's being targeted by the anti-doping authorities.

I will take her at her word, which is a courtesy that often isn't afforded to whites who try to clarify their positions, and explicitly denounce potentially inflammatory beliefs or implications, but I won't forget her rollout. There was no need to do it this way. She's chumming the water and using an illegal net. She knows what she is doing, here. She is making this about other groups when it should be about her.

I think you resumed your argument with Panamaican half way through this post. He was the one who said you should take her at her word, not me.

I was just clarifying that I don't feel for her (sympathy, in the emotional sense) but I can see where she's coming from (empathy) and I think she happened to bring up a valid larger issue. Not sure what changed in my position.

 

[Judge]

The black community should treat this with greater hostility than any other. This blatant attempt to exploit the very real history of white racism, and appeal to those who are constantly suspicious of it even when they cannot prove it, due to that history, is the cry of wolf that deafens white ears to valid sociopolitical grievances.

Don't tell me this is an isolated incident or an outlier. It's been happening over and over and over the past several years. This is a constant threat. You will always have to internally police it. Many people in your community will repeatedly attempt to exploit what is real for personal gain, and it cheapens the cause.

Serena Williams feels singled out in tennis' drug testing


...then attempts to hedge after throwing our her troll pleading for sympathy by pandering to race fears...



Hmmm, that's funny, Serena, why do you think the anti-doping authorities might be hawking you a bit more closely than the rest? Think it might have something to do with you pulling a Lance Armstrong?
Report: Serena locks self in panic room


I noticed that happened around the time they weren't testing you! Maybe your character has been established, and they understand now how to keep you honest. On your own, you're not.


To the black community from a white friend: please, don't let this go unchecked and unpunished. You have to stigmatize this strategy of exploitation.

Otherwise, even the noble might not come when you call for help. They won't believe you.

Tennis bends over backwards for her. I guess she never heard about Sharapova getting busted.

 

[Gregolian]

Are you saying that West African people don't have more fast twitch muscles? Or that darker skin doesn't enhance the appearance of muscle definition? Aren't bulky, defined muscles still associated with PED use, even though we know many athletes on PEDs, such as endurance athletes, don't have bulky, defined muscles?

Racial component =/= 100% due to race. If race is only a part of the picture, then there will be people across races who are treated differently.

Isn't the "fast twitch muscle" thing been proven as bro-science?

What I'm saying is Serena is most likely getting slammed with tests because she's been at the top so damn long.

As to muscle definition showing... if black clothing is considered slimming how would darker skin show more definition?

 

[Fawlty]

@Madmick What does this have to do with black vs. white or the black community? She didn't say racial discrimination. There are other types. There are also other black tennis players who don't get tested as much as she does.

Maybe you're reading race into a basic sports story where it doesn't exist?

I wonder about this too. This story has been simmering for a while and pops up here and there with no mention of race. I've been waiting for the racial angle but it hasn't come.

 

[Madmick]

I mean...she's not wrong.

How any person on Sherdog can pretend that black athletes don't get disproportionate comments about their physique is insane. People of west African descent generally have more fast twitch muscle fibers. Dark skin enhances the aesthetic of muscle tone, which is why bodybuilders tan so heavily.

The obvious counter is that buff white athletes get accused of being on roids too, but that's not the point. Our definition of what looks like a PED user is retarded. Professional athletes aren't using steroids to impress chicks, they're doing it so they can train harder, perform better, and avoid injury. Black/brown athletes are often under greater suspicion simply because what we think a PED user looks like happens to be a look that is more common among athletes with some west African ancestry.

This isn't particularly controversial of her to say. People accuse Serena of being on roids all the time. I've never heard Sharapova or any of the other, less muscular female players get accused. Hingis, Graf, Navratilova, all dominant players, none considered to have a "suspicious" physique.

I was just clarifying that I don't feel for her (sympathy, in the emotional sense) but I can see where she's coming from (empathy) and I think she happened to bring up a valid larger issue. Not sure what changed in my position.

Empathy vs. Sympathy

 

[Devout Pessimist]

Serena's clit is bigger than my dick guaranteed

Her muscles are probably bigger than yours too.