Serena Williams cries "discrimination" over drug testing

[Madmick]

You're not calling out anything, you're just making shit up. You write an entire paragraph about cheating and doping and then without any intermediary explanation you claim that her response is to claim racism. Even though she never says racism, never says black, never alludes to white tennis players being treated differently, etc.

Seems more like you're looking for it to be about race and so anything that you can vaguely misinterpret as race you have chosen to do so.

Well, now I've gone and made you emotional, again.

 

[vengeful]

That's not "discrimination". An individual is not a group.

Discrimination doesn't require it to be against a "group" homie.

 

[panamaican]

*Proffered.

I have clarified the reason for my allusion to that history. I am specifically criticizing her for exploiting the lingering wounds from those old, valid examples with her specific language. Her complaint does not match them explicitly, but her desire to be perceived in the same light is-- yoked by the invocation of this term.

What wounds is she explointing, she makes no such reference to anything remotely tied to that era. Invocation of what term? Discrimination?

How did you reach maturity without ever hearing about athletes complaining about being discriminated against?

Here's a quick and easy example. Lebron James alleges that referees discriminate against him on the court and don't give him the foul calls he deserves. Is that also exploiting race relations? Of course not.

Perhaps before you start trying to provide white advice to the black community (lol) you should wonder why you're overly sensitive to Serena Williams making a standard athlete claim of mistreatment.

 

[bufetadanacara]

@Madmick

Oh my.

These are not my terms, and no values have been imposed on the defined group by mentioning them. I am not characterizing them with my beliefs, but trying to echo a general grievance voiced by their group-- as they define it. One of the first steps we need to take is to correct the racist misapprehension of innocent terms or rubrics which are unavoidable to forming a sentence that carries descriptive power-- that carries meaning. Otherwise we will always be doomed to address problems inductively, rather than deductively, and I'm afraid that doesn't work; specifics are vital to understanding the parts before you understand how they relate to the whole even if they are never separated from the whole.


I certainly don't want to debate anything and I am busy but I will respond, although I am not sure I should when you start off your post with an "Oh my". It sounds to me as if you are already on your high horse.

"They" are only a group because "we" continue to group "them" together. My entire point was to not group all of "them" together.
Which general grievance are you echoing?
What descriptive power are you talking about here?
What meaning is being carried?
By continuing with the practice of grouping, I think that problems will continue to be addressed inductively.



Say you are mixing paint. You're trying to achieve the right shade. You are being brought colors from different helpers; red, yellow, green, etc. If everyone agrees the mixture goes well every time until one group brings their specific color to mix, then you have to consider the mulit-parameter truth, which is there is a less predictable synergy between paints that might not be specific to that group, but generally speaking, it makes sense to say, "Hey, red paint guy, could you try something different?"

That must be above my head, I don't know what the hell you are saying here.



That goes for everyone bringing paint to the palette. We all must scrutinize how our bubbles overlap, and what might we be doing that is contributing negatively; either as an individual, family, or member of a more closely-knit tribe yoked by some trait like race. Do you freak out when sociologists, economists, or leftists talk about the problem of white men holding too great a concentration of power and wealth? How that contributes to divisions and larger problems?

First of all, I don't think I ever "freak out" but yes, I do not like the term "white men" either. What the hell does one "white man" have to do with another? I don't feel a need to link a man of Polish decent with another of Welsh decent, for example.



If you don't, then you don't object to "these people". You sound very young to me. You sound like someone who has been trained to identify biases, but hasn't yet had much practice with these tools.

I would imagine I am among the older members here, no spring chicken. I assure you that I have never been trained to identify biases. Is this an attempt to insult me? Again, I am not sure where you are going with this and I have no wish to bicker with you.

I hope you aren't taking a defensive stance on this. I am by no means suggesting any racism on your part, not at all. Matter of fact, I believe that I am wishing for the same outcome that you originally stated- that the black community (I still hate the term) lashes out at Serena for her bullshit implications of racism against her. I just think we have extremely different views on how such a turn of events could come about.

 

[Renard]

I mean...she's not wrong.

These kind of "come on, black people" posts are annoying, and it's obvious when the person making the post actually doesn't have much interest in, investment in, or experience with actual black people.

How any person on Sherdog can pretend that black athletes don't get disproportionate comments about their physique is insane. People of west African descent generally have more fast twitch muscle fibers. Dark skin enhances the aesthetic of muscle tone, which is why bodybuilders tan so heavily.

The obvious counter is that buff white athletes get accused of being on roids too, but that's not the point. Our definition of what looks like a PED user is retarded. Professional athletes aren't using steroids to impress chicks, they're doing it so they can train harder, perform better, and avoid injury. Black/brown athletes are often under greater suspicion simply because what we think a PED user looks like happens to be a look that is more common among athletes with some west African ancestry.

This isn't particularly controversial of her to say. People accuse Serena of being on roids all the time. I've never heard Sharapova or any of the other, less muscular female players get accused. Hingis, Graf, Navratilova, all dominant players, none considered to have a "suspicious" physique.

That said, Serena is for sure on PEDs, imo.

Thinly veiled homosexual post. Nobody cares about black people's physiques.

 

[Madmick]

Discrimination doesn't require it to be against a "group" homie.

Yes, it does. The individual has to belong to some group in order for them to be discriminated on a basis not pertaining to his/her individual character.

Otherwise, we can regard the treatment as specific to the individual, and not a matter of prejudice or bias.

I would imagine I am among the older members here, no spring chicken. I assure you that I have never been trained to identify biases. Is this an attempt to insult me? Again, I am not sure where you are going with this and I have no wish to bicker with you.

I hope you aren't taking a defensive stance on this. I am by no means suggesting any racism on your part, not at all. Matter of fact, I believe that I am wishing for the same outcome that you originally stated- that the black community (I still hate the term) lashes out at Serena for her bullshit implications of racism against her. I just think we have extremely different views on how such a turn of events could come about.

Noted, my mistake, I appreciate the clarification.

I thought you were policing me with the citation of "these people". Are you unaware of the stigmatization of white people using the phrase, "you people", when referring to blacks? It has long been a favored phrase to attack as an example of unconscious racism.

It's worthy of consideration, but I'm not sure how else to describe a group as I did here while trying to impart a well-studied and demonstrated bias in their community (as to believe in the integrity of police or other institutions).

 

[panamaican]

Well, now I've gone and made you emotional, again.

Right, because I'm the one who got so upset over a tennis player that I started a thread offering white advice to the black community...

Wait, no, I double checked the OP. That's actually you with the multiple links and Twitter embeds and the angry rhetoric.

By all means, pretend that my responding to your racializing a tennis tweet is an example of anyone other than you being emotional....

 

[vengeful]

Yes, it does. The individual has to belong to some group in order for them to be discriminated on a basis not pertaining to his/her individual character.

Otherwise, we can regard the treatment as specific to the individual, and not a matter of prejudice or bias.

Uh no, you can be discriminated against based on a variety of reasons based on your individual character. Shaq didn't get foul calls against him because of his size, he was being discriminated against because he was bigger than everyone else. Lebron doesn't win the MVP every year despite clearly being the best player, he's being discriminated against because of his dominance. Terrell Owens wasn't inducted into the HOF on his 1st ballot despite having arguably the 2nd best numbers at WR in NFL history, discriminated against because of his personality.

 

[Madmick]

What wounds is she explointing, she makes no such reference to anything remotely tied to that era. Invocation of what term? Discrimination?

How did you reach maturity without ever hearing about athletes complaining about being discriminated against?

Here's a quick and easy example. Lebron James alleges that referees discriminate against him on the court and don't give him the foul calls he deserves. Is that also exploiting race relations? Of course not.

Perhaps before you start trying to provide white advice to the black community (lol) you should wonder why you're overly sensitive to Serena Williams making a standard athlete claim of mistreatment.

What do you think when you see #whitegenocide? What about "Alt-Lite"? Do you not detect the connotative weight?

Pan, she's going to be questioned about this. If she openly rejects an implication of racism directed at the tennis authorities, and repudiates that notion, I will take her at her word. I think that is fair when she makes that explicit. Right now, I think she's applying some of those same Alt-Right tactics where she panders to a certain group with a loaded word. She's stirring imaginations to run wild, and she's steering it to familiar territory.

Again, if you could show me the history of muscular or successful women athletes banding together to fight discrimination against their group I might find that reading cogent. That is such an obscure proposition that to assume it without explicit reference to it (from her) is far less compelling than to presume disingenuous intent by virtue of the lack of any specific framing of the loaded term, "discrimination". It's a specter unloaded on the public.

 

[Ranzou**]

Sometimes these war room threads remind me of this:

:50-1:25

To be fair to all you abominable body shamers, her T&A has it going ON.

 

[flashNsmash]

And lol at the notion blacks in sports don't pigeon-holed. Lamar Jackson just haaaad to be a reciever in a lot of people's eyes. Most of them were blue.

Now granted, the white running back is as rare as the dodo...


























.......but that's because they're really just fullbacks anyway

lol yup

either fullbacks or quasi-slotbacks

 

[Leagon]

Sharapova copped a 15 month ban by the way for using Meldonium.
Successful Eastern Block athletes definitely raise suspicions.

Fair point.

But it was never an issue of her physique. That's where race comes in and is where I think Serena has a point.

However, I think the argument could also be made that Eastern block athletes get discriminated against as well. Whether or not that's "racist" is tough to say, though. History is an important part of race, but phenotype is typically the definitive part.

 

[Leagon]

Thinly veiled homosexual post. Nobody cares about black people's physiques.

See: Yoel Romero

And every WR thread about cucks.

 

[Leagon]

This is ignorant of my life, and the identity of my immediate family. Please, don't cast accusations by implication in ignorance. It makes a fool of you.

I stand by what I said. It is generally pretty obvious when someone is speaking from experience and when someone is speaking from ignorance. But there are exceptions.

There are also very experienced people who have no interest or investment, and so state their opinions in a way that makes them sound ignorant.

 

[Madmick]

This Norwegian female cross country skiier endured probably more negative speculation about her physique in the international press at the Olympics in Pyeoncheng than any other athlete, and for damn good reason:

 

[The ScorpioN]

Isn't the first time Serena brings race, directly or indirectly, into how people perceive her.

From a Guardian article:

“I feel like people think I’m mean,” she said. “Really tough and really mean and really street. I believe that the other girls in the locker room will say, ‘Serena’s really nice.’ But Maria Sharapova, who might not talk to anybody, might be perceived by the public as nicer. Why is that? Because I’m black and so I look mean? That’s the society we live in. That’s life. They say African Americans have to be twice as good, especially women. I’m perfectly OK with having to be twice as good.”

No, Serena, when you look like Yoel Romero after a cycle and play like a man, people will notice that. Not because you're black, but because you're roided to the gills. Her sister isn't perceived as Godzilla on the court, because she still looks like a lady.

 

[panamaican]

What do you think when you see #whitegenocide? What about "Alt-Lite"? Do you not detect the connotative weight?

What the fuck does that have to do with Serena Williams and her tweet? Gotdammit man, you're going full retard here.

Pan, she's going to be questioned about this. If she openly rejects an implication of racism directed at the tennis authorities, and repudiates that notion, I will take her at her word. I think that is fair when she makes that explicit. Right now, I think she's applying some of those same Alt-Right tactics where she panders to a certain group with a loaded word. She's stirring imaginations to run wild, and she's steering it to familiar territory.

Again, if you could show me the history of muscular or successful women athletes banding together to fight discrimination against their group I might find that reading cogent. That is such an obscure proposition that to assume it without explicit reference to it (from her) is far less compelling than to presume disingenuous intent by virtue of the lack of any specific framing of the loaded term, "discrimination". It's a specter unloaded on the public.

Dominant athletes have always complained about mistreatment. Shaq, Bron, TO, tiger-proofing golf courses, every other month some UFC fighter claims that Dana is sticking it to him personally, Barry bonds bitching that people wouldn't pitch to him, etc.

I'm not going to keep debating this with you. There's no point. I think it's probably one of the stupidest things you've ever written. 2 reasons:

1) You take a standard athlete complaint about testing and blow it up into some race-baiting bullshit.
2) You compound your racializing of a tennis tweet into white moralizing to the black community.

Even if the 1st part was just a simple difference of interpretation the 2nd part "To the black community from a white friend...," makes it clear that you're the one fixated on race here. You could disagree with Serena's tweet without also turning it into a personal need to tell the black community what to do from your position as a white person. As I said earlier -

1) What does Serena's tweet have to do with the black community?
2) What does you being white have to do with whatever "advice" you're offering?

Nope, you can miss me with the insinuations and "she's referring to...," you've racialized something that didn't require it so that you could moralize. I don't have time for the backtracking and bullshit.

 

[salamander]

lol yup

either fullbacks or quasi-slotbacks

John Riggens
Mike Alsott
Christian McCafferty

Those are literally the only three i can think of without googling. It's actually stunning how badly white people underrepresent in that position.

They should probably take it up at the next owners meeting to talk about that paticular diversity issue.

 

[Ruprecht]

Fair point.

But it was never an issue of her physique. That's where race comes in and is where I think Serena has a point.

However, I think the argument could also be made that Eastern block athletes get discriminated against as well. Whether or not that's "racist" is tough to say, though. History is an important part of race, but phenotype is typically the definitive part.

Well, she can definitely claim that the suspicions are a form of discrimination based on appearance. Just like the Eastern Bloc athletes could claim the suspicions are a form of discrimination based on history. Abstracting that to claims of political or racial discrimination probably isn't a good idea though (Russia tried that and the result was this years ban from the Olympics).

 

[Deleted member 391673]

The black community should treat this with greater hostility than any other. This blatant attempt to exploit the very real history of white racism, and appeal to those who are constantly suspicious of it even when they cannot prove it, due to that history, is the cry of wolf that deafens white ears to valid sociopolitical grievances.

Don't tell me this is an isolated incident or an outlier. It's been happening over and over and over the past several years. This is a constant threat. You will always have to internally police it. Many people in your community will repeatedly attempt to exploit what is real for personal gain, and it cheapens the cause.

Serena Williams feels singled out in tennis' drug testing


...then attempts to hedge after throwing our her troll pleading for sympathy by pandering to race fears...



Hmmm, that's funny, Serena, why do you think the anti-doping authorities might be hawking you a bit more closely than the rest? Think it might have something to do with you pulling a Lance Armstrong?
Report: Serena locks self in panic room


I noticed that happened around the time they weren't testing you! Maybe your character has been established, and they understand now how to keep you honest. On your own, you're not.


To the black community from a white friend: please, don't let this go unchecked and unpunished. You have to stigmatize this strategy of exploitation.

Otherwise, even the noble might not come when you call for help. They won't believe you.

They both have Therepeutic Use Exemptions for banned substances. If these giant Bigfoot monsters are that unhealthy they can’t compete without TUE’s that give them an advantages in using banned substances they should get the fuck out of the sport.

Same for Simone Biles. No way should someone have a TUE for attention disorder to freely use stimulants during practice and competition.

These bitches are so deluded they think what they’re doing is perfectly fine. Legal doping FTW.

http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2016...-itf-tues-serena-williams-rio-olympics/61109/