Secularism Under Attack: Alabama Senate passes bill allowing church to establish police dept.

[Falsedawn]

Many campus police may have previously been city or township officers or possibly work in both capacities but their responsibilities and range of options for dealing with crime are not necessarily the same. Nor are they necessarily seen the same by the court system.

But this isn't that. This is the same rationale that allows colleges to have full police departments, hence why it has to be approved. The officer would be considered an actual police officer, not just some security mook, and that's the problem.

Regardless of their duties, handing over state law enforcement power to religious organizations is absolutely asinine. I make no distinction between them playing Barney Fife around the church and them sitting on their asses playing Xbox all day. If the church needs security, then they need to hire some danged security. Giving them a police department isn't the answer, and it's opening the door to giving all religious entities their own police departments.

I don't trust the state, but I trust churches WAY less than that. This is a dangerous path Alabama is treading.

 

[Rational Poster]

TS should go live in a country with sharia law and see if he prefers that over a nation built on Christian principles. Good luck with that!

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

Deleted because fuck

 

[Big Nasty Edison]

Band it's opening the door to giving all religious entities their own police departments.

Imagine the WR threads if a state gave a Satanist church the right to create a police force

 

[Teppodama]

However, one troubling issue with campus police departments is the lack of accountability and transparency required of a municipal department. Interactions between municipal and campus police is generally one of peers as many municipal police really see no distinction between their roles when it comes to public safety.

All I'm saying is until some actual facts about what limits they may have on their mandate or how and what they will be required to carry out are put forth, this really isn't any different than say one of the large Catholic campuses having their own department, which is no different than one of the non-secular campuses having a department.

Not particularly sure why this church/school would need special dispensation for their own force unless its due to the relatively small size of the school population. But who knows.

 

[Big Nasty Edison]

The first officer

His squad car

 

[Jim Bob]

So you don't have a problem with this at all?

Do you want to deny protection for the defenseless? They still have to abide by the law.

 

[Jim Bob]

The first officer

His squad car

Now we're talkin!

 

[Jim Bob]

Do you hate secularism? Are your kids not getting diddled enough at church because those stupid police keep butting in? Who are they to tell you when your children can have "jesus juice"?

Well people, Alabama has the problem solved.

http://whnt.com/2017/04/11/alabama-senate-passes-unprecedented-church-police-bill/

Alabama Senate passes unprecedented church police bill



That whole "separation of church and state" thing is for the birds, what kind of fairy would advocate that? Clearly the answer to all of our problems is to give the state power of law enforcement/force projection to fucking churches. What could go wrong?

Wait, Sharia Law! What Alabama apparently forgot is that if they give a police department to this christian church, they have to do it for all religious entities. That includes mosques, synagogues, and temples. The people most fearful of Sharia Law are so shortsighted that they're making it entirely possible for Sharia Law to become an institutionalized thing in their backyard. Sad!

Alabama, you've already taken a dump on voting rights, the sanctity of marriage, the Constitution, ethical behavior, and being a net contributor to the rest of the country.

Why do you hate America so much?Critics of the bill argue that a police department that reports to church officials could be used to cover up crimes.

We could say the same about mall cops, but no one is suggesting to get rid of them.

 

[Falsedawn]

We could say the same about mall cops, but no one is suggesting to get rid of them.

Uh...what?

 

[SammyPops]

Too bad it was not a muslim mosque. Would have liked to see sherdog so rustled. Maybe next time.

 

[Falsedawn]

Too bad it was not a muslim mosque. Would have liked to see sherdog so rustled. Maybe next time.

I almost titled the thread "Alabama kicks off road to Sharia Law", but I had a touch of conscience.

Goddamn it, that rustle would have been glorious though.

 

[Teppodama]

But this isn't that. This is the same rationale that allows colleges to have full police departments, hence why it has to be approved. The officer would be considered an actual police officer, not just some security mook, and that's the problem.

Regardless of their duties, handing over state law enforcement power to religious organizations is absolutely asinine. I make no distinction between them playing Barney Fife around the church and them sitting on their asses playing Xbox all day. If the church needs security, then they need to hire some danged security. Giving them a police department isn't the answer, and it's opening the door to giving all religious entities their own police departments.

I don't trust the state, but I trust churches WAY less than that. This is a dangerous path Alabama is treading.

Now that, I will agree on. Government hasn't really given much reason TO trust them. As for the whole police thing, if they are held to the same standards of laws to uphold as municipal police it's marginally better. Now, allowing them to enforce non-municipal or federal laws, IE Sharia laws, is a different matter entirely and unless the law says that is within their remit I can't see how they or the church campus could legally justify it's practice. Is there still potential for abuse, yes obviously, but not much more so than is already available to any campus security / police force that answers to a faculty rather than a government body with real oversight.

 

[lecter]

Government monopoly under attack.

 

[Big Nasty Edison]

I almost titled the thread "Alabama kicks off road to Sharia Law", but I had a touch of conscience.

Goddamn it, that rustle would have been glorious though.

Maybe a bunch of nerds can open a Jedi church and ask the state to allow them to commission Jedi Knights police force

https://www.jedichurch.org/

 

[Teppodama]

Imagine the WR threads if a state gave a Satanist church the right to create a police force

As long as they are still required to follow municipal and federal laws then I couldn't care less.

 

[panamaican]

Will this "police force" be required to investigate crimes? Will they collect evidence themselves? Will they be required to undergo legit police training? forensic training? Will they hand out speeding tickets? Arrest drunk drivers? Will they in fact do anything other than safeguard the school grounds from violence much like any normal security guard department at a university?

The way it reads is that they will be a regular police force, likely with a very small jurisdiction.

But that is very different from a security guard department. Security guards cannot enforce the law. They can protect the property rights of their employer. A police department has the authority to actively enforce the law. They have immunity for certain behaviors. They can intrude on your privacy and rights in a way that a private sector entity (like a security guard) cannot.

 

[Falsedawn]

Now that, I will agree on. Government hasn't really given much reason TO trust them. As for the whole police thing, if they are held to the same standards of laws to uphold as municipal police it's marginally better. Now, allowing them to enforce non-municipal or federal laws, IE Sharia laws, is a different matter entirely and unless the law says that is within their remit I can't see how they or the church campus could legally justify it's practice. Is there still potential for abuse, yes obviously, but not much more so than is already available to any campus security / police force that answers to a faculty rather than a government body with real oversight.

But with colleges, even private colleges, they have avenues to keep everything above board. Public colleges answer to state legislatures. Private colleges, if they don't have a system board or something of that sort, can be leaned on by accreditation boards. Baylor was one high profile target after their sexual assault scandal, and losing accreditation can be a death blow for any legitimate school. Churches answer to... nobody in particular? They can be a member of a national board or none at all. They could have oversight, or none at all. But while a school with no accreditation is largely seen as a joke, a church with no oversight is just a church. The potential for abuse is far greater than even the most religious of religious schools. It's not even the same ballpark to me.

 

[Teppodama]

All in all, it's really a strange request with only a 4k congregation. Given the size, what kinda of crimes are they seeing either on the church grounds or in the school that would require more than a more typical security force? I wonder how big are the church and school grounds?

 

[Big Nasty Edison]

Backwards savages with their religious police.