Scoring the fight as a whole (PRIDE, DREAM etc) vs Round by Round (UFC, Bellator etc)

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by Mooner, Jan 7, 2013.

  1. Mooner

    Mooner Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2011
    Messages:
    3,121
    Likes Received:
    4
    Which do you prefer, and why?

    I prefer scoring the fight as a whole because if you barely edge someone in the first two rounds and get severely beaten up and damaged in the third, do you really deserve the nod?

    Also, unlike boxing where it has 10+ rounds, MMA rounds are generally 3~5 rounds maximum. The 10 point boxing system does not seem applicable in MMA.

    **I think the best solution is 1 round 15 mins for normal fights and 1 round 25 mins for championships personally. The winner if it goes to a decision is judged on the holistically (based on damage/efforts to finish fights etc) The boxing model in MMA is annoying because it does not work in my opinion.**
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2013
  2. vuco KJV***

    vuco KJV*** Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2012
    Messages:
    732
    Likes Received:
    0
    Pride's scoring was the best.
     
  3. Son of Sonnen

    Son of Sonnen Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2012
    Messages:
    3,752
    Likes Received:
    4,477
    I do like the scoring by round. I don't like the unwritten rules of scoring by round (no tie rounds, almost always 10-9 etc.)
     
  4. TFanatic

    TFanatic Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2011
    Messages:
    10,898
    Likes Received:
    348
    Fight as a whole for 3 rounders, r by r for 5 round fights.
     
  5. Mooner

    Mooner Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2011
    Messages:
    3,121
    Likes Received:
    4
    I don't think the 10 point system works in MMA when there are only 3~5 rounds.
     
  6. mrsinister

    mrsinister Brown Belt

    Joined:
    May 29, 2012
    Messages:
    4,203
    Likes Received:
    51
    Best solution is to only score the final round. Give people 2 to 4 rounds to go crazy and do whatever the f*ck they want to finish. Then, if it has to be decided on points, so be it.
     
  7. youngsteinel

    youngsteinel Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2007
    Messages:
    14,164
    Likes Received:
    2,194
    Location:
    Maryland
    It makes more sense, especially in a fight like Machida vs. Rampage. But I think it is too vague personally.
     
  8. Mooner

    Mooner Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2011
    Messages:
    3,121
    Likes Received:
    4
    I think the best solution is 1 round 15 mins for normal fights and 1 round 25 mins for championships personally. The winner if it goes to a decision is judged on the holistically (based on damage/efforts to finish fights etc) The boxing model in MMA is annoying because it does not work in my opinion.
     
  9. JKS

    JKS 77+&--#rT....

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2005
    Messages:
    56,827
    Likes Received:
    8,432
    Location:
    Toronto
    Full fight and not roundly round. Watch Matt Humes video on the front page from a few days ago and he explains why full fight is better
     
  10. shonuf

    shonuf Titanium Belt Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2010
    Messages:
    48,947
    Likes Received:
    21,688
    pride did it right with whole fight scoring based on damage and yellow cards.
     
  11. Movieman

    Movieman Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2012
    Messages:
    280
    Likes Received:
    0
    The fight as a whole for sure. In MMA you can have fights like Machida vs Rampage where basically nothing happened for 2 rounds and someone gets a 10-9 for it, then the last round where Machida rocks him, almost armbars him, etc and it's also just a 10-9. Score that fight as a whole and Machida won it. Score it by round and it could go either way even though Machida was never hurt or in trouble and Rampage was.
     
  12. kallebaah**

    kallebaah** Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    943
    Likes Received:
    0
    the 10 point scoring is horseshit
     
  13. m25105

    m25105 Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2011
    Messages:
    4,936
    Likes Received:
    3,107
    Location:
    Denmark
    Scoring by the whole fight.
     
  14. Mooner

    Mooner Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2011
    Messages:
    3,121
    Likes Received:
    4
    Then would you guys rather have 1 round 15 mins in normal fights and 1 round 25 mins in championship fights as opposed to having 3 rounds or 5 rounds? Because for me, I feel that getting rid of this 3~5 rounds is essential for fights to be judged holistically. Get rid of this boxing crap.
     
  15. youngsteinel

    youngsteinel Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2007
    Messages:
    14,164
    Likes Received:
    2,194
    Location:
    Maryland
    No I think that is a terrible idea.
     
  16. Lanshire

    Lanshire Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2004
    Messages:
    13,077
    Likes Received:
    366
    As a whole. Pride's system was better but it even it had its flaws. There were a couple snoozefests in Pride too, just not as many.

    Scoring a fight by rounds is just another senseless distortion of reality. Arbitrarily assigning scores within a small range each round as if assuming both fighters are going to have an output within 10-20% of each other is a level of stupidity just asking for controversy.

    For example:
    Round 1 - Fighter A outlands Fighter B by 3 strike and 1 takedown
    Round 2 - Fighter A outlands Fighter B by 5 strikes
    Round 3 - Fighter B outlands Fighter A by 30 strikes and 5 takedowns

    Even before we take other factors into consideration that can skew it even more (damage of the strikes, sub attempts, aggression, etc), let's just assume all those things are equal, looking at the rounds above it's clear that Fighter B should've won by a wide margin. However, under current rules with current judges, the best he could hope for would be to get a 10-8 round in the 3rd and come out with a draw. It can get even more distorted in a 5 round fight.

    Imagine if in football, basketball, soccer, hockey, or baseball, they said "At the end of each quarter, we're just going to give the team that scored the most 10 points and give the other team 9 points, or maybe in extremely rare circumstances 8 points." People would wonder who let Forrest Gump decide the rules.
     
  17. mrsinister

    mrsinister Brown Belt

    Joined:
    May 29, 2012
    Messages:
    4,203
    Likes Received:
    51
    Guys would regularly exhaust themselves with rounds that long. It'd be Royce vs. Shamrock type stuff.
     
  18. Iron Leg

    Iron Leg Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2006
    Messages:
    2,586
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    The Internet
    I loved watching Pride, but I hate how it's become popular today to place its scoring on a pedestal that it in no way deserves.

    Scoring the fight "as a whole" is a big problem, because it has zero transparency. There is no "score", just a winner and a loser. The judges just pick who they want at the end, and everyone else is just left to speculate as to how they reached that conclusion.

    While this type of flexibility could potentially allow the "right" person to win, in situations where rigid round scoring would not, rarely would this actually be the case. Pride still had plenty of controversial decisions, and given the revelations about Yakuza influence, you have to wonder how many of those decisions had more to do with who they were told to pick, than who rightfully deserved to win.

    Even in cases where Pride judges were acting in good faith, it's just human nature to place greater emphasis on the very end of the fight than what happened in the beginning. This way of scoring puts a bias on how a judge felt at the very end, and devalues what happened in the beginning. Heck, even the commentators on Pride often stated that the way you ended the fight was the way to earn a judges' decision, which of course was NOT part of the official rules and contradicted the way it was supposed to be scored.

    I think the real fix is to start using a greater range in the rounds, to prevent a guy from winning who wins 2 "squeakers" or borderline rounds, and loses one round big. Use half points that would more effectively score the "whole" fight, placing greater point discrepancies in rounds where more happened or the margin was greater, and encourage judges to use the full range much more.

    That way, you get a more representative score based on the "whole", while still keeping judging process more honest and more transparent.
     
  19. youngsteinel

    youngsteinel Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2007
    Messages:
    14,164
    Likes Received:
    2,194
    Location:
    Maryland
    I agree completely.
     
  20. Mooner

    Mooner Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2011
    Messages:
    3,121
    Likes Received:
    4
    Yet you think scoring holistically is better. Keeping the 3~5 rounds and wanting the fights to be holistic cannot happen.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.