Sanders tops Clinton for the first time in new national poll!

[VivaRevolution]

I know there's no possible way you could know this, other than stalking my posts, but I was once a huge Bernie supporter who has regressed on him as time passes. There's a slight chance I might vote for Bernie, but it will be because the Republicans nominate a total retard (which is a possibility).

I'm not meaning to be mean, but I've thought very much about this issue. You can try to sway if you like but I'm very autonomous and I'm not sure you'll bring up anything I haven't thought about. I don't mean that in a smug, self-centered way. I just went from a Bernie nuthugger to completely lukewarm on him.

If you're itching, I must ask this question. How is Bernie supposed to stand up to ISIS when he can't even stand up to Black Lives Matters protesters?

Do you think that bernie was afraid?

I dont. I think he wanted to respect there right to peaceful protest, even if they were obnoxious.

Either that, or he was worried about the optics of the situation, and chose the path with the least risk involved.

I have no doubt that bernie is a politician by trade, and a pretty good one. Risk management is a part of that. Look at how he is hit on minority support already. Imagine if he would have tried to stand his ground, and those girls just out screamed him.

To go further, I'm sure you remember the thread on this, and the reports that Marissa Janae was a Sarah Palin supporter in 08, when the first black president was being elected. That should raise some questions for all of us I think.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

Imagine not having Bush or even Gore in office when 9/11 happened, and having McCain instead.

The world would have been a better place.

Oh, most indubitably.

 

[in the]

Do you think that bernie was afraid?

I dont. I think he wanted to respect there right to peaceful protest, even if they were obnoxious.

Either that, or he was worried about the optics of the situation, and chose the path with the least risk involved.

I have no doubt that bernie is a politician by trade, and a pretty good one. Risk management is a part of that. Look at how he is hit on minority support already. Imagine if he would have tried to stand his ground, and those girls just out screamed him.

To go further, I'm sure you remember the thread on this, and the reports that Marissa Janae was a Sarah Palin supporter in 08, when the first black president was being elected. That should raise some questions for all of us I think.

Honestly, I don't care if Bernie was afraid. He completely backed down to them (twice). I'm not looking for Putin, but I'm looking for more than that.

He appeals to me in a few areas. Not his "everyone gets free shit!" campaign promises, which are simply done to tickle the ears of voters, but because he's principled. Ron Paul was principled, to a fault, and this is where I have concerns about Bernie. Can he set aside his ideology and do what's right for the country if his ideology fails to address the problems at hand? I don't know.

Clinton is dominating the minority vote in the Democratic primary, which baffles me. I can only blame Bernie for not knowing how to run a campaign, because that guy was there on the ground during the Civil Rights battle, fighting for them and getting arrested. Why those pictures and info aren't in every black neighborhood in America is baffling, and is the product of poor planning. Can't stop BLM protesters from shutting down his rally, can't capitalize on a lifetime of helping the black community. How is he supposed to stop the growing, international rise of ISIS? ISIS is on the verge of allying (or even incorporating) Boko Haram and other international terrorist groups.

I recognize that the Democrats are almost infinitely better for the economy than flat earth Republicans, but they are weak on terrorism. This is a big issue to me. I think Americans have sort of been lulled into a slumber since 9/11.

 

[VivaRevolution]

Imagine not having Bush or even Gore in office when 9/11 happened, and having McCain instead.

The world would have been a better place.

You have me wondering if 9-11 would have happened if McCain would have been president.

I'm thinking if he see's a memo saying AQ determined to attack US, he doesn't take it lightly. In fact he might even have gotten his first hard on without viagra in a decade.

 

[in the]

You have me wondering if 9-11 would have happened if McCain would have been president.

I'm thinking if he see's a memo saying AQ determined to attack US, he doesn't take it lightly. In fact he might even have gotten his first hard on without viagra in a decade.

Bush had a memo that went through all sorts of scrutiny that reached his desk saying that OBL was going to strike America on American soil. I feel like Bush was unprepared for dealing with this threat and brushed it off. It's one of those failures of our system - Clinton understood the threat that OBL posed to America and tried at the very end to kill OBL before he could strike. It's really hard for that sentiment to be passed on to new leadership and a new administration. What Clinton eventually realized was a major threat, he couldn't pass those feelings on to Bush.

Who knows if McCain would have acted on that info. And I feel confident that McCain wouldn't have started the war in Iraq, either.

The world would be a much different place.

 

[VivaRevolution]

Honestly, I don't care if Bernie was afraid. He completely backed down to them (twice). I'm not looking for Putin, but I'm looking for more than that.

He appeals to me in a few areas. Not his "everyone gets free shit!" campaign promises, which are simply done to tickle the ears of voters, but because he's principled. Ron Paul was principled, to a fault, and this is where I have concerns about Bernie. Can he set aside his ideology and do what's right for the country if his ideology fails to address the problems at hand? I don't know.

Clinton is dominating the minority vote in the Democratic primary, which baffles me. I can only blame Bernie for not knowing how to run a campaign, because that guy was there on the ground during the Civil Rights battle, fighting for them and getting arrested. Why those pictures and info aren't in every black neighborhood in America is baffling, and is the product of poor planning. Can't stop BLM protesters from shutting down his rally, can't capitalize on a lifetime of helping the black community. How is he supposed to stop the growing, international rise of ISIS? ISIS is on the verge of allying (or even incorporating) Boko Haram and other international terrorist groups.

I recognize that the Democrats are almost infinitely better for the economy than flat earth Republicans, but they are weak on terrorism. This is a big issue to me. I think Americans have sort of been lulled into a slumber since 9/11.

So is your objection to allowing optics of not being strong?

If so, my rebuttal is that there was no other play there. He was in a situation where being strong would have alienated him to a voting block he needs.

I would actually argue that this is why he is the best on foreign policy, and the terror threat. It is calculus in the world power game. The art of war says you determine the ground you fight on. That battle field was n8t,one of bernie's creation, so he retreated. It was the right move.

There are times right now, where in the interests of this nation, the president may have to appear weak, and take a political hit, to do the right thing. Syria seems to be a good example of this today. It is Russia's problem now. We should leave it to them. People will say it makes obama look weak, but it is the right move.

 

[Selukrid612]

So is your objection to allowing optics of not being strong?

If so, my rebuttal is that there was no other play there. He was in a situation where being strong would have alienated him to a voting block he needs.

I would actually argue that this is why he is the best on foreign policy, and the terror threat. It is calculus in the world power game. The art of war says you determine the ground you fight on. That battle field was n8t,one of bernie's creation, so he retreated. It was the right move.

There are times right now, where in the interests of this nation, the president may have to appear weak, and take a political hit, to do the right thing. Syria seems to be a good example of this today. It is Russia's problem now. We should leave it to them. People will say it makes obama look weak, but it is the right move.

I'm not a Sanders supporter, but I completely agree with this. I don't think you can judge a candidate's strength by an act of appeasement towards one's base during a primary, especially while they're playing catch-up against a political juggernaut. I find it disgusting that bowing down to BLM protesters is a political reality on the left, but Bernie was just playing the game.

 

[BVG]

Imagine not having Bush or even Gore in office when 9/11 happened, and having McCain instead.

The world would have been a better place.

Yes I'm sure extremist willing to die for their cause would have been swayed by whomever was president at the time...

Would you mind explaining how McCain as president would have prevented anything?

 

[VivaRevolution]

To the point of ISIS and Boko haram, and all the others linking up, I too worry about this. What worries me the most is that we may have already let this spin too far out of control, and may already be locked into the generational war the jihadi's wanted.

If by some miracle we haven't already passed the point of no return, we need a president that understands blowback. We can fight these jihadi's only through a support role. There can not be white faces with boots on the ground in the ME. To force the ME nations to do the actual fighting, we have to be willing to let things get so bad there that the ME nations feel their stability is threatened by these groups. Only then will they come to the table.

As much as I love bernie, I do question if he is the right president to with stand the all out media assault that will call for action, before the ME nations are forced to take the threat seriously.

 

[VivaRevolution]

I got to keep going here @sodapopinski. I am enjoying the chance to share the way I see things here.

To the question of his promises of free stuff.

We are really talking about 2 things here. Single payer health care, and free public university tuition.

There are 2 common themes here. Spiraling out of control prices, and bernie's plan to create a single entity to negotiate prices. He is doing the whole 2 birds with one stone act. He is expanding the social safety net, while paying for it with price controls.

I have VA HC for life, and a union Cadillac HC plan. Single payer would be a detriment to me personally. However I believe that the single greatest threat to this country is 17% of GDP and rising on HC. It is the number one driver of the crisis we are going to face in the next 25 years in paying for the baby boomers, without collapsing the country.

With rising education prices the driver is the flooding of loans to give access to education, with again no price controls built in. What ever the school asks, the loan is approved for. By publicly funding public universities, you create price controls by creating a single entity to negotiate the price.

It sounds like sanders is promising us we get to have our cake and eat it too, but the truth is that in HC and college, the pricing is so far out if whack, that you can actually expand access, and stabilize the system.

 

[Lustercross]

Yeah I don't see college and healthcare as free stuff personally. College helps you to develop skills for a job, so it's not right for poor and low middle class people to be priced out or to become debt slaves just to get a better job. And it isn't right for them to go bankrupt because of medical conditions that are out of their hand.

 

[ucunc156]

Dude was a senior exec for Lehman Bros. He looks good because he's standing next to the criminally insane.

meh is it really much worse than hillary with her donations? At this point, I don't trust Hillary with the shit she's been spewing lately. I was firmly Bernie or Hillary during the first couple debates but the insincerity we've seen in 2016 has totally turned me off on her. I actually find Kasich sincere, and being a resident of Ohio, he's done a pretty good job.

I'll say this about Kasich: He won't be a great president and things will remain largely status quo. But He won't fuck up the country to the extent GWB did (though not all of that was his fault. I'd be willing to sit through 4 years of mediocrity with Kasich in order to wait it out for Warren.

If you're itching, I must ask this question. How is Bernie supposed to stand up to ISIS when he can't even stand up to Black Lives Matters protesters?

This and his semi flip flop on gun control are my biggest annoyances about Bernie. I hate when anyone panders and both scenarios were occasions in which he pandered.

 

[therealdope]

Honestly, I don't care if Bernie was afraid. He completely backed down to them (twice). I'm not looking for Putin, but I'm looking for more than that.

Agreed. This isn't even an open question.

 

[kpt018]

Maybe wait until he gets the nomination before you celebrate. They only voted in 2 states!

I am willing to admit his chances now are way, way higher than I would have thought a few months ago. That said, it would still be a defeat if he did win the nomination lost the GE to Rubio.

 

[therealdope]

I am going to LMAO if Hillary-bot loses the nomination to Bernie.

Establishment Hillary-bot, with big money backing losing to an old Jewish (think about how many idiots would still use this against someone), socialist, who has a grass roots backing.

She should just check out and go sip Mai Tai's by the pool in Cabo and enjoy her joint $110m or whatever net worth.

 

[bad seed]

HRC booed at her own Town Hall


she thinks attacking Bernie by implying he isnt Establishment enough will work? smh

 

[method115]

theoretically, if either trump or bernie gets elected, what's the worst they could really do (assuming you don't like the one that gets in)....

potential SCJ nominees, and Cabinet obviously. But bernie being elected doesn't magically mean his social welfare policies pass congress or get into the budget....Trump being elected doesn't mean we're building a literal wall at massive expense....

I read some people's posts like it would be the literal end of the world. We're not electing a Russian Czar here people, just saying

This is the thing that always gets me. People act like the president is a king and they are just going to walk into the white house and start doing whatever the fuck they want. Literally everything single thing that happens in our country is blamed on the president and everyone acts like the congress and senate had nothing to do with it.

 

[Jack V Savage]

theoretically, if either trump or bernie gets elected, what's the worst they could really do (assuming you don't like the one that gets in)....

potential SCJ nominees, and Cabinet obviously. But bernie being elected doesn't magically mean his social welfare policies pass congress or get into the budget....Trump being elected doesn't mean we're building a literal wall at massive expense....

I read some people's posts like it would be the literal end of the world. We're not electing a Russian Czar here people, just saying

In the case of Trump, the worst that can be done is major rollback of progress on the environment, 20 million Americans lose their health insurance, massively regressive changes to the tax code pass, the social safety net is gutted, war with Iran, and probably lots of unforeseeable blunders. In the case of Sanders, probably nothing really. Maybe the GOP causing a recession by actually delivering on some of the brinksmanship (and that could happen under Clinton, too).

 

[therealdope]

In the case of Trump, the worst that can be done is .... war with Iran,

Let me get this straight, you believe that Trump is more likely to attack Iran than Hillary? What is the basis of this belief?

 

[Jack V Savage]

Let me get this straight, you believe that Trump is more likely to attack Iran than Hillary? What is the basis of this belief?

Is that even a question? Clinton backed the deal, and Trump trashed it. That would be tops, but generally, Trump seems pretty bloodthirsty, while Clinton is moderate.