Saying wresting is a sham is stupid, sorry. It’s a sport. Again, it’s not meant to be used stand alone against sambo. No one has ever suggested wrestling alone is what you need for mma. That sambo is better for mma as a stand alone art is pretty meaningless since the wrestler needs to train in other arts to be an mma fighter. Is combat sambo better for mma than wrestling+bjj+judo+boxing+Muay Thai? Just training in even combat sambo is not ideal. Hopefully this helped you.
Sambo - past, present and future of MMA?
- Thread starter JustOnce
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It is impossible for your dumb ass to "help me."
You're too stupid to realize that you've actually agreed with me, namely wrestling is NOT the best primary discipline for MMA. Sambo is.
That was my point, with which you've tangentially-agreed, but lack the intelligence to understand this.
I was making a separate point genius. I never remotely implied wrestling was a better primary discipline for mma. But you saying sambo is the best single discipline is also pretty meaningless. All of the best fighters train and integrate multiple disciplines into their skill sets and style. And again, fedor was a judoka and khabib a judoka and wrestler as well. Wrestling was a pretty good base for khabib.
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More like, you were failing to understand any point.
I was implying Sambo is the best base for MMA.
Its adherents (Fedor and Khabib) are the GOATs of the respective weight classes.
Everything you said is what has been "meaningless."
Combat Sambo itself is the integration of wrestling/judo/boxing.
Khabib himself has elevated judo over wrestling: he directly called judo "a more elegant system" than wrestling, so Khabib himself doesn't even respect wrestling as much as he respects judo.
You missing this sentiment only underscores how clueless you are in everything you said.
I'll let you have the last word, since it's a waste of time to argue with an idiot.
American wrestling is a sham compared to Dagestani Sambo/judo/wrestling.
Again, you are trying to compare a single discipline sport to the amalgamation of multiple disciplines / sports. It’s like saying MMA > combat sambo for mma. Neither fedor nor khabib specialized in “sambo”. Khabib saying judo was more elegant than wrestling is great. He was an expert at both. He didn’t have to pick one or the other. He needed both. Fedor was a judoka above all as a base.
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If sambo were the best base ufc would be flooded with sambo guys from russia but they aren't because they are getting KOd by wrestlers like khamzat in the regionals or getting subbed in the ufc by unranked white belts like abubaquitter. Wrestling continually has guys in top 10 across many weight classes, sambo does not. And if we are all honest half the sambo guys on the roster are here because of khabib not because of skill
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Wrestling has 100-1 representatives in the UFC compared to Sambo.
Yet Sambo practitioners achieve higher rankings (GOAT rankings) more often, proportionately, than do wrestlers.
- Fedor has defeated far more wrestlers at heavyweight, than wrestlers have ever defeated him.
- Khabib has defeated far more wrestlers at lightweight, than wrestlers have ever defeated him.
There is no "pure wrestler" who would stand a snowball's chance in hell of beating Khabib; there is no "pure wrestler" who could beat Fedor.
Wrestling is a base; it's not a combat system. Sambo = Full Comment System.
We can argue this forever, but you'll never change my mind, and the facts clearly won't change yours.
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You keep mentioning khabib and fedor and ignoring all the other sambo champs failing to get out of regionals. Not sambo competitors, sambo champs. Meanwhile we have numerous average college wrestlers finding top 10 rankings. And where is your 100-1 coming from? Russian regional are full of sambo guys they simply aren't good enough to make it to the ufc while college wrestlers not only find their way to ufc but get ranked. You really want to compare top 20 or 50 all time rankings and see how many wrestler vs sambo ? Lmao
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It would be if UFC actually signed based on skill but they don't. You know it I know it and everybody in here knows it. This has been well documented with elite fighters like Magomed Magomedov and Shabily not getting contracts... Weak argument even for you D1.
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Maybe cause The UFC is fucking AMERICAN and they heavily favor American fighters
They don't "favor" anybody. There is just more Americans, because it's an American based promotion. The United States is also a country of 330 million people. It's also the worlds biggest melting pot, which makes it genetically diverse. Now add in all of the top level doctors, nutritionist, and athletic training centers, it makes for a recipe of excellence. This is why the U.S. has most Olympic medals by a large margin.
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I think it is or was.
2 out of the 5 greatest fighters I've ever seen have it as their base and considering the low numbers coming from it that's pretty good. They don't point fight or lay n pray either unlike some wrestlers or strikers. Going in there and trying to end your opponent while taking risks to me puts you ahead of the guys who often play it safe. This is why I easily have Fedor at no.1 regardless if he has some losses later in his career.
2 out of the 5 greatest fighters I've ever seen have it as their base and considering the low numbers coming from it that's pretty good. They don't point fight or lay n pray either unlike some wrestlers or strikers. Going in there and trying to end your opponent while taking risks to me puts you ahead of the guys who often play it safe. This is why I easily have Fedor at no.1 regardless if he has some losses later in his career.
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Which magomed? The boring one signed to bellator who lost to yan?
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Is Yan the first elite Russian guy who didn't dabble in Sambo?
I realize this is mostly a troll thread, but it still could be accurately titled "Russia is Large Country and Has 2 Fighters Considered Top 5 All-Time". As others have pointed out, sambo was simply a stop along the journey for virtually all of the Russian MMA combatants.
I realize this is mostly a troll thread, but it still could be accurately titled "Russia is Large Country and Has 2 Fighters Considered Top 5 All-Time". As others have pointed out, sambo was simply a stop along the journey for virtually all of the Russian MMA combatants.
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lmao when did Justin Gaethje become the poster boy for American wrestling?
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Since the entire MMA world proclaimed him as "the first D-1 Wrestler" Khabib has ever faced.
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Gaethje wasn't even close to being the best in college. He finished his senior year 17-8. I think people were just excited to see how Khabib would do against a Folkstyle wrestler and hadn't really seen Justin's wrestling in MMA before. For the record I predicted Khabib by smesh.
D
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Again i think the issue is that combat sambo isnt really your standard MA, its often a transitional MA with guys coming in from boxing, judo and wrestling backgrounds. So it doesnt have massive depth of talent BUT if you have someone with potential become involved it does I think have a pretty strong record.
Folkstyle wrestlings dominance in MMA is IMHO almost entirely down to it being a cheap and easy US talent base to exploit for the UFC, almost zero earnings potential to it outside of MMA so alot of guys will take peanuts early on in MMA.
Besides Combar Sambo linking striking into takedowns well I think you could also argue its benefit over "standard modern MMA training" is actually that it teaches more advanced boxing. You look at Fedor in the past and Nemkov more recently and there boxing looks alot more complete than we typically see, they actually slip punchs, use hand traps, get their head off access on the way in, etc.
Modern US MMA striking tends to be very upright and stiff, very dependent on "seeing the punchs coming" and you actually see guys taking WAY more significant strikes per fight now than was typical 15 years ago. Fights like DC/Stipe 2 & 3 as wars of attrition rather than displays of slick technique.
Folkstyle wrestlings dominance in MMA is IMHO almost entirely down to it being a cheap and easy US talent base to exploit for the UFC, almost zero earnings potential to it outside of MMA so alot of guys will take peanuts early on in MMA.
Besides Combar Sambo linking striking into takedowns well I think you could also argue its benefit over "standard modern MMA training" is actually that it teaches more advanced boxing. You look at Fedor in the past and Nemkov more recently and there boxing looks alot more complete than we typically see, they actually slip punchs, use hand traps, get their head off access on the way in, etc.
Modern US MMA striking tends to be very upright and stiff, very dependent on "seeing the punchs coming" and you actually see guys taking WAY more significant strikes per fight now than was typical 15 years ago. Fights like DC/Stipe 2 & 3 as wars of attrition rather than displays of slick technique.
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Maybe because the UFC is an American company so of course they are gonna get more American talent. Oh and russian wrestlers dominate US
D
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Its a combination of an easy sell, a talent base closer to home and a talent base with little earnings potential.
Folkstyle wrestling has never really been a "career", its something you do in school/collage then MAYBE the very best of the best go to one olympics and perhaps then get a job as a coach. Very different in places like Russia, Central Asia, Cuba etc were your much more likely to get decent government funding to carry on though your best years going to repeated world champs and Olympics.
That means Folkstyle wrestling has a.lot of fighters looking for a career in another sport, much moreso than say Judo, Kickboxing, etc, I think you could argue the only other major MA in that position is actually Sambo.
The single biggest factor for MMA sucess though IMHO is when you have someone who built up elite skill in one MA and then discovered they also had elite opponent in another, Fedor has great boxing potential, GSP had great wrestling potential, etc.
