[Ryan Garcia] My levels are so low for someone who took ostarine.

[maximus__]

yet if you went to a judge and try to sue him for cheating, the judge would say "how can it be cheating if it was stipulated into the contract what would happen if he missed weight, which he did and he complied with the contract, negating the cheating complaint"

It's simple, if you don't want to fight a guy 3lbs above the weight, don't charge him 500k per lb if he does.

As far as Garcia ruining his boxing career? With the PED's? very possible (although it didn't do shit to canelo) with the weight issue? Hardly, Gervonta, Shakur, Charlo, Benavidez and many others have missed weight and even though you guys seem to be sure it was 100% intentional, it's never possible to prove it is.

Honestly, there are other things to worry about Ryan at the moment, more important than 3lbs.

They made an agreement outside of a court to fight.Why are you talking about court and cheating? The commission makes a decision if the fight goes ahead, with the fighters. He has stated he intentionally missed that weight. he didn't just miss weight, he has come and and said he didn't even try and make it and chose to gain an advantage against the agreed to rules of the fight. it's the very definition of cheating:act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage.

100% he ruined his career because now people will only fight him at a certain weight or with a hydration clauses. You can't rely on him to make an agreed weight, or to follow the requirements of his contract. He will only get fights with smaller purses, more clauses that stack the fight against him or just not get fights against certain people anymore. Why risk having to fight someone who won't even meet you in the agreed weightclass?

 

[randomg1t]

Are we going to pretend , that 3lbs is that massive of a deal ? Silly , I think Ryan just employed some crafty mind games that worked out. They really talked a lot of shit about him and his mental state , even missing the weight was brilliant, he didn't drain himself, and it seemed he didn't train well.

if you think his mental state shouldn't be questioned, i have some bad news for you.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

They made an agreement outside of a court to fight.Why are you talking about court and cheating? The commission makes a decision if the fight goes ahead, with the fighters. He has stated he intentionally missed that weight. he didn't just miss weight, he has come and and said he didn't even try and make it and chose to gain an advantage against the agreed to rules of the fight. it's the very definition of cheating:act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage.

100% he ruined his career because now people will only fight him at a certain weight or with a hydration clauses. You can't rely on him to make an agreed weight, or to follow the requirements of his contract. He will only get fights with smaller purses, more clauses that stack the fight against him or just not get fights against certain people anymore. Why risk having to fight someone who won't even meet you in the agreed weightclass?

I gave him the same definition of 'cheating' and he stubbornly continues to use his own. His "all or nothing" logic fell apart as soon as he presented it. For example, committing an intentional foul during a fight is blatant cheating. Yet the ref may elect to allow the fight to commence per the unified rules after taking points. In other cases the ref may stop the contest. Cheating is cheating whether the fight was stopped or allowed to resume.

 

[SuperLuigi]

I highly doubt any of these guys are clean, if Haney had won , I also highly doubt any of this would of came to light. Not a Garcia fun but it's pretty dubious to be when you have guys like Victor Conte involved and whole fact everyone expected Garcia to loose and it's almost like people want to search for an alternative reason to Haney's loss . Again not a fan of Ryan , but ngl I was surprised to see Ryan smash him. Lol juice wasn't gonna help him with Haney, Ryan just improved, I think he learned a lot fighting Tank , sometimes being exposed to that level sharpens you up. Time will tell.

If they are VADA enrolled and living full time in the United States they are most likely clean. The system can be beat of course but you need to either invest huge amounts of money into it or play Russian roulette with your career and reputation.

 

[maximus__]

I gave him the same definition of 'cheating' and he stubbornly continues to use his own. His "all or nothing" logic fell apart as soon as he presented it. For example, committing an intentional foul during a fight is blatant cheating. Yet the ref may elect to allow the fight to commence per the unified rules after taking points. In other cases the ref may stop the contest. Cheating is cheating whether the fight was stopped or allowed to resume.

That's exactly it. Garcia didn't just miss weight accidentally, he intentionally came in half a weight class above. Old matey has just painted himself into a corner without knowing the actual definition of cheating or what a law suit is.

Now we get someone trying to fall back on law suits etc to defend a shitty opinion without realising the stupidity of this argument in the context they are using it. Garcia breached his contract, was punished and his opponent was compensated for it. It's effectively him losing in a court of law and his opponent being compensated because he was at fault. They just skipped the civil court process by having a pre agreement on the punishment if something like this was to happen. He effectively admitted fault and was civilly sued, without having the court involved. If they hadn't come to an agreement he 100% could have been sued for breach of contract by multiple entities and would have lost after admitting fault like he did, if they didn't come to terms for the fight to continue.

 

[BoxingMMA]

They made an agreement outside of a court to fight.Why are you talking about court and cheating? The commission makes a decision if the fight goes ahead, with the fighters. He has stated he intentionally missed that weight. he didn't just miss weight, he has come and and said he didn't even try and make it and chose to gain an advantage against the agreed to rules of the fight. it's the very definition of cheating:act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage.

100% he ruined his career because now people will only fight him at a certain weight or with a hydration clauses. You can't rely on him to make an agreed weight, or to follow the requirements of his contract. He will only get fights with smaller purses, more clauses that stack the fight against him or just not get fights against certain people anymore. Why risk having to fight someone who won't even meet you in the agreed weightclass?

It’s kind of interesting how in your own post you write the reason why it wasn’t officially cheating then in the end you say he did.

Stipulations are there for a reason, if I sign a contract declaring I will finish paying a property in 12 months, but the contract also states that every month I go over the promised period I will pay an extra 1% with a maximum limit of 3 years.

I can intentionally go over and take 3 years to pay, as long as I pay the dues stated in the contract.

Even if I go to them and go “ha! Suckers! I never wanted to pay in 12 months!!”

They’ll go “and thank you for the extra cash retard”

Same thing here, Haney thought he could laugh all the way to the bank with an extra 1.5 mill, fighting a fat Ryan while he rehydrating to 165 as he likes to do. Only it didn’t work.

All of a sudden he gets his ass kicked and what? “Disqualy Ryan! He cheated!!!”

Maybe think about that before you take the fight with the new rules.

As for Ryan destroying his boxing career? Who gives a fuck

 

[Zarathustra611]

Thing is, their supplements won't do jack shit unless they put something in them that actually does something, and that's almost always something banned. Ostarine seems to be in a lot of stuff, it must be cheap and it must work, in some way at least

I think Ostarine absolutely works, that's why it's banned.

I also think supplement companies are just fine selling stuff that doesn't work.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

As for Ryan destroying his boxing career? Who gives a fuck

Ryan does. His "win" is likely to be overturned, his reputation is permanently damaged, Haney remains WBC champion, he now has 1.5 million dollars less than he had before, and he'll probably have less opportunities going forward since nobody will trust him to not breach their contract.

 

[BusterKeaton]

I think Ostarine absolutely works, that's why it's banned.

I also think supplement companies are just fine selling stuff that doesn't work.

Ostarine for sure works. It's no tren. But it legit does help grow muscle.

 

[BusterKeaton]

So much for my trace amount cross contamination. Garcia posting the legal amounts allowed. Yeah he was found 35 times higher than that.

It will be hilarious if the B sample is clean like everyone or Hearns fighters that test positive for everything.

 

[kingghidrah]

I think Ostarine absolutely works, that's why it's banned.

I also think supplement companies are just fine selling stuff that doesn't work.

Agreed, but if it's cheap to add some stuff that works, it gives them an edge over the stuff that doesn't, hence Ostarine's proliferation across many supplements. Works better than Ovaltine!

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

So much for my trace amount cross contamination. Garcia posting the legal amounts allowed. Yeah he was found 35 times higher than that.

It will be hilarious if the B sample is clean like everyone or Hearns fighters that test positive for everything.

He was found to have between 35-60x higher Ostarine than what the commission would deem "trace" amounts. Reportedly he used a banned IV too in order to rehydrate and try and flush out the PEDs. Supposedly they have video evidence of it. Ryan Garcia's career is over.

@WklySportsMemes

 

[ether]

Dyou think Ryan gonna go MMA if boxing rejects him?

Him and Jake Logan can also make money with his situation.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Dyou think Ryan gonna go MMA if boxing rejects him?

Him and Jake Logan can also make money with his situation.

No. There's not enough money in MMA. Unfortunately he'll stick around in boxing. He'll just have a harder time getting high profile fights against name opponents. Unless they specifically write up the bout agreement to where coming in overweight and/or popping for PEDs means he forfeits his entire purse. That's what I'd have done if I was his opponent.

 

[maximus__]

It’s kind of interesting how in your own post you write the reason why it wasn’t officially cheating then in the end you say he did.

Stipulations are there for a reason, if I sign a contract declaring I will finish paying a property in 12 months, but the contract also states that every month I go over the promised period I will pay an extra 1% with a maximum limit of 3 years.

I can intentionally go over and take 3 years to pay, as long as I pay the dues stated in the contract.

Even if I go to them and go “ha! Suckers! I never wanted to pay in 12 months!!”

They’ll go “and thank you for the extra cash retard”

Same thing here, Haney thought he could laugh all the way to the bank with an extra 1.5 mill, fighting a fat Ryan while he rehydrating to 165 as he likes to do. Only it didn’t work.

All of a sudden he gets his ass kicked and what? “Disqualy Ryan! He cheated!!!”

Maybe think about that before you take the fight with the new rules.

As for Ryan destroying his boxing career? Who gives a fuck

It's no different to throwing an illegal strike. They have a contract that they sign that says they will follow the specific rules of the bout and a pre agreed punishment if those illegal strikes are thrown. If Garcia had gone out there and started throwing leg kicks, would you agree he cheated? Knees to the groin? Headbutts? All these things are agreed on before the fight and attract punishments, but if one fighter chooses to use them intentionally 'to gain an unfair advantage" then they have "cheated."

Your example is irrelevant above, it has nothing to do with the actual definition of cheating within the context of boxing or sport in general. They agreed on rules for the fight and someone intentionally broke them.

Haney still lost the fight and Garcia looked like the better boxer, but that's irrelevant. It doesn't change the fact that Garcia cheated in the fight by choosing to miss weight.

 

[BoxingMMA]

It's no different to throwing an illegal strike. They have a contract that they sign that says they will follow the specific rules of the bout and a pre agreed punishment if those illegal strikes are thrown. If Garcia had gone out there and started throwing leg kicks, would you agree he cheated? Knees to the groin? Headbutts? All these things are agreed on before the fight and attract punishments, but if one fighter chooses to use them intentionally 'to gain an unfair advantage" then they have "cheated."

Your example is irrelevant above, it has nothing to do with the actual definition of cheating within the context of boxing or sport in general. They agreed on rules for the fight and someone intentionally broke them.

Haney still lost the fight and Garcia looked like the better boxer, but that's irrelevant. It doesn't change the fact that Garcia cheated in the fight by choosing to miss weight.

I agree with you, it’s no different than an illegal strike, roughhousing, head butting, etc. it happens, all the time. If it happens too much they get a point or disqualified.

Ryan paid the price, lost the belt, lost 1.5 million and Haney agreed upon the new weight.

 

[maximus__]

I agree with you, it’s no different than an illegal strike, roughhousing, head butting, etc. it happens, all the time. If it happens too much they get a point or disqualified.

Ryan paid the price, lost the belt, lost 1.5 million and Haney agreed upon the new weight.

Yes, but it doesn't change the fact that he cheated. It doesn't matter if they agreed to continue with the fight.
It was a title fight, for a specific weightclass and he came in above it intentionally. The whole point was that it was a fight for the belt of that weightclass.

No issues at all if he just said he couldn't make weight and they agreed to a catch weight bout a week or two out with no mention of titles.
Then it's just a showcase fight and both fighters don't have to cut that weight.

 

[BoxingMMA]

Yes, but it doesn't change the fact that he cheated. It doesn't matter if they agreed to continue with the fight.
It was a title fight, for a specific weightclass and he came in above it intentionally. The whole point was that it was a fight for the belt of that weightclass.

No issues at all if he just said he couldn't make weight and they agreed to a catch weight bout a week or two out with no mention of titles.
Then it's just a showcase fight and both fighters don't have to cut that weight.

It would have been cheating if he somehow was able to fight for the belt while being over the limit but the fight they originally agreed to, didn't happen. It's impossible to "cheat" when it comes ti weight because you have to weight yourself before everyone before a fight starts and it's up to Haney to decide if he wants to continue or step back.

I know what you are trying to say but there's a difference between flat-out cheating and taking advantage of certain rules to get ahead. If the contract simply said "If you are over 140, fight is canceled" then ryan simply can't fight and ends up looking like an idiot (still did thanks to PED's) but charging him 500k per lb gives him an out, it allows him to come in over weight and still fight, so how can it be cheating if he was allowed to do it by those who sanction the combat?

Anyway, I've argued this point more than enough in this thread and it always comes down to the same thing, I am pretty sure you can read all my responses before.

Again, as I say, as far as the PED's, that is officially cheating as no one allowed him or gave him an out to fight while doped

 

[BoxingMMA]

Ryan does. His "win" is likely to be overturned, his reputation is permanently damaged, Haney remains WBC champion, he now has 1.5 million dollars less than he had before, and he'll probably have less opportunities going forward since nobody will trust him to not breach their contract.

But why do we care about that guy? Ryan is crazy I couldn't care less what happens to him or his career but I while say this, I wouldn't be too sure, we've seen drug cheats who weren't affected (as you said, Lesnar, Jones, Canelo... fucking Baby Miller who is a garbage HW and should have never fought again somehow paid his price by now stumbling his way back to two important HW fights, back to back, making millions when maybe he should have never fought again.

Anderson Silva got a year for PED's, Nick Diaz got 5 years and his career ruined for fucking marujuana.

So I wouldn't be too sure about what's going to happen to Ryan but I hope the right call is made.

 

[Ruv]