Social Russian army hazing

My Spot said:
I mean there's a difference between getting waterboarded with beer vs getting beat up and/or raped.
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Yeah . Take a gander how many deaths there have been in " hazings " gone wrong.

Still happens . People get killed mate. Not just beaten up and raped.

It's not just a Russian thing.
 
fedoriswar37 said:
Barbarians. Unfortunately, these are the people you want to send to war. You have to send these people, Because the enemy Is too. That's just a reality. We all know some very fine military people , smart good people. We also know absoloute lunatics we grew up with ,went to school or worked with etc. which are in the army ( which might not be bad , as they'd likely be in jail). I don't care how civilized of people you are, it's war.
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It really isn't.

This is one of the reasons the Russian army is so shit. They don't have NCOs who they follow into combat. Their "commander" is the guy that sodomised them with a broom handle in bootcamp. Nobody has each others back. No comerady. This is why every Ukrainian drone video shows Russians just abandoning their injured colleagues.

Modern war is mostly about how effectively you operate weapon systems, not how hard you can kick a subordinate who isn't allowed to fight back.
 
jimbob27 said:
It really isn't.

This is one of the reasons the Russian army is so shit. They don't have NCOs who they follow into combat. Their "commander" is the guy that sodomised them with a broom handle in bootcamp. Nobody has each others back. No comerady. This is why every Ukrainian drone video shows Russians just abandoning their injured colleagues.

Modern war is mostly about how effectively you operate weapon systems, not how hard you can kick a subordinate who isn't allowed to fight back.
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Saving people doesn't get you medals in Russia. You want to get awarded the "Hero of the Motherland," you have to kill.

For example, there was a story during the 2nd Chechen war about a Russian (an Ingush) who risked his life to help abandoned elderly people in Chechnya. There was a retirement home right in the middle of the storming of Grozny at the start of the war. It was completely abandoned and nobody wanted to risk helping these people except this man. One elderly person died of a heart attack during the evacuation but he actually managed to get everyone else to safety. He saved dozens of lives and it was a really inspiring story. He was nominated for the title of Hero of the Russian Federation but the years went by and he never received it; meanwhile Russian soldiers who openly ransacked houses, kidnapped people and held them for ransom (sometimes even killing them and ransoming their corpses!), raped and murdered, etc, received the award.

What was going on in Chechnya wasn't a secret from the Russian public. They knew and were fine with it to a large extent. Some brave dissidents, who spoke out and wrote about it critically, were assassinated for having the audacity to do this. So it goes in Russia.
 
Anewt said:
Same shit happens in uk bud.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...itiation-ceremony-triggers-investigation.html
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Hazing, sure.

No disputing that.

Absolute indifference to the needless suffering and deaths within entire regions and nations, including internal regions, however?

That I have not seen from the British leadership.

For every war crime committed by the British army, and there will be some, I don't recall us every destroying our own cities and states like Russia has done in recent history. And we could have done. We could have 'Chechnya'd' people in the Troubles, but no city was destroyed by the British army during that internal conflict.
 
Siver! said:
Hazing, sure.

No disputing that.

Absolute indifference to the needless suffering and deaths within entire regions and nations, including internal regions, however?

That I have not seen from the British leadership.

For every war crime committed by the British army, and there will be some, I don't recall us every destroying our own cities and states like Russia has done in recent history. And we could have done. We could have 'Chechnya'd' people in the Troubles, but no city was destroyed by the British army during that internal conflict.
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Oh without a doubt. I'm actually quite pro uk. Without yas my ancestors wouldn't have been sent here.


Just find the examples of hazing such as this to be a bit silly to think Russia as different as it's sadly a extremely common phenomenon, regardless the country.



There's plenty of great things England / uk Britain whichever has done. A lot they don't get credit for as well.

But also quite a few warcrimes even in modern conflicts. Just like Australia in Afghanistan. When you create people into weapons of war it's probably quite inevitable ( sas ) both countries.

Also hiring mercenaries to do the dirty work isn't unheard of for certain families and corporations in the UK.


But on a large scale Russia is by far more heinous. It's not even a contest. Although some places and people may disagree with that, but thsts completely understandable, if it's your family and friends that were the victims of said crimes scale is kind of irrelevant .
 
Anewt said:
Same shit happens in uk bud.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...itiation-ceremony-triggers-investigation.html
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It probably happens a certain amount in all militaries. In the UK every time somebody is hurt or killed there's a massive investigation that makes all the papers.

The last time Russia reported numbers, violent deaths were a daily occurance in their military. Obviously some of these will be accidents, but regardless of cause, the numbers are unacceptably high.

In the 2010s, the Defense Ministry stopped publishing data on violent deaths in the Armed Forces. When they last did it in 2009, there were 30 such cases per month on average - now the number is unknown. But this doesn’t stop military officials from proclaiming “complete victory over hazing.”

https://www.fairplanet.org/editors-pick/hazing-is-still-common-and-deadly-in-the-russian-army/
 
Karl_Hungus said:
Luckily, armies in the West are too busy sodomizing each other to engage in this sort of brutal hazing. It is a good thing that war isn't about brutality in any way, but more about one's proficiency with gender pronouns and sodomy technique.
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Typically war is about killing the opponent, not your own side
 
Cole train said:
Old video from 90s or early 2000s

Hazing was bad when service was 2 years hence they changed it to one and nowadays its generally ok

Depending on unit shit still happens but nothing like before
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there's an interesting book, One soldier's War, written by Arkadi Babcenko, speaking about it.
guy was in chechen 1 & 2
 
jimbob27 said:
It probably happens a certain amount in all militaries. In the UK every time somebody is hurt or killed there's a massive investigation that makes all the papers.

The last time Russia reported numbers, violent deaths were a daily occurance in their military. Obviously some of these will be accidents, but regardless of cause, the numbers are unacceptably high.

In the 2010s, the Defense Ministry stopped publishing data on violent deaths in the Armed Forces. When they last did it in 2009, there were 30 such cases per month on average - now the number is unknown. But this doesn’t stop military officials from proclaiming “complete victory over hazing.”

https://www.fairplanet.org/editors-pick/hazing-is-still-common-and-deadly-in-the-russian-army/
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Yeah I'd love to believe western militaries are a notch better in their hazing better than the treatment of Russian " hazings "

But I tend to not believe it sadly.

Hazing in itself creates these situations. Regardless of nation, hell even Regardless of occupation. ( look at college's. Sports etc )

It seems to be a global phenomenon. Regardless of nation or ( team / society/ military )

Just like a prior article I referenced, even the elite green berets wanted sexual assault of a new guy to be recorded. Ended up killing him.

The UK soldiers raped a guy with a fucking mortar. Recorded it as well. The amount of it occurring in Russia is probably greater than Western nations sure. I can give you that , that is a possibility.

But once you look into it the punishments are ludicrously in adequate and very rarely are the perpetrators given any sort of punishment that equates to the crime.

This is a heinous crime that exists everywhere and is drastically under reported. I'd even assume that Russian totals are under reported with that 30 .

When American DOD provides
What is the data on military sexual assault?
About 8.4 percent of active duty women and 1.5 percent of active duty men indicated experiencing USC in the year prior to being surveyed. Based on these rates, the Department estimates 35,875 active duty Service members experienced sexual assault in FY21 (about 19,255 women and 16,620 men).

Im quite loathe to say its less than 30 a month. Of course it depends what is deemed sexual assault



 
Anewt said:
Yeah I'd love to believe western militaries are a notch better in their hazing better than the treatment of Russian " hazings "

But I tend to not believe it sadly.

Hazing in itself creates these situations. Regardless of nation, hell even Regardless of occupation. ( look at college's. Sports etc )

It seems to be a global phenomenon. Regardless of nation or ( team / society/ military )

Just like a prior article I referenced, even the elite green berets wanted sexual assault of a new guy to be recorded. Ended up killing him.

The UK soldiers raped a guy with a fucking mortar. Recorded it as well. The amount of it occurring in Russia is probably greater than Western nations sure. I can give you that , that is a possibility.

But once you look into it the punishments are ludicrously in adequate and very rarely are the perpetrators given any sort of punishment that equates to the crime.

This is a heinous crime that exists everywhere and is drastically under reported. I'd even assume that Russian totals are under reported with that 30 .

When American DOD provides
What is the data on military sexual assault?
About 8.4 percent of active duty women and 1.5 percent of active duty men indicated experiencing USC in the year prior to being surveyed. Based on these rates, the Department estimates 35,875 active duty Service members experienced sexual assault in FY21 (about 19,255 women and 16,620 men).

Im quite loathe to say its less than 30 a month. Of course it depends what is deemed sexual assault
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As others have stated: while hazing, bullying and sexual assault do happen in the British Armed Forces, it's at a much lower level than the Russian army. And when it comes to light, the penalties are severe. Sexually assault a fellow soldier in the British Army and, at the very least, you're going to be demoted in rank. And the conviction will follow you throughout your career. Worst case scenario would be Dishonourable Discharge and Prison.
 
HOLA said:
The Russian military are a bunch of raping bandits. They were during Soviet times and they still are. The stories of what they did in Chechnya are horrific. Their purges. That wasn't all that long ago - the 2nd Chechen War was with Putin in power. Nothing has changed.
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Russian military are a bunch of raping bandits
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Just for prescriptive..
Okinawa’s vocal anti-US
military base movement

On the Hazing from what i had read in the past was a much more common theme in American college Fraternity houses than in Europe..
 
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KnightTemplar said:
As others have stated: while hazing, bullying and sexual assault do happen in the British Armed Forces, it's at a much lower level than the Russian army. And when it comes to light, the penalties are severe. Sexually assault a fellow soldier in the British Army and, at the very least, you're going to be demoted in rank. And the conviction will follow you throughout your career. Worst case scenario would be Dishonourable Discharge and Prison.
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No offence. Losing one's rank but maintaining one's freedom isn't remotely adequate punishment for rape
 
Anewt said:
No offence. Losing one's rank but maintaining one's freedom isn't remotely adequate punishment for rape
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Agreed, and any British serviceman convicted of rape would face a lengthy prison sentence on top of being dishonourably discharged. Sexual assault covers a wide variety of crimes, and I was referring to less serious examples, such as touching another soldier inappropriately.
 
Siver! said:
Hazing, sure.

No disputing that.

Absolute indifference to the needless suffering and deaths within entire regions and nations, including internal regions, however?

That I have not seen from the British leadership.

For every war crime committed by the British army, and there will be some, I don't recall us every destroying our own cities and states like Russia has done in recent history. And we could have done. We could have 'Chechnya'd' people in the Troubles, but no city was destroyed by the British army during that internal conflict.
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Since you brought up Ireland as a internal conflict here’s just two examples
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_of_Cork
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sack_of_Balbriggan

You can (rightfully IMO) criticise Russia but to come at it from the position of British moral superiority on that front is laughable. As you bring up Ireland as a internal dispute and given Kenya was part of the empire would you not in take into account the mass rapes, castrations and 1.5 million flung into camps? Or India?
 
KnightTemplar said:
Agreed, and any British serviceman convicted of rape would face a lengthy prison sentence on top of being dishonourably discharged. Sexual assault covers a wide variety of crimes, and I was referring to less serious examples, such as touching another soldier inappropriately.
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Yeah the disturbing thing is I thought you'd be 100% correct that those involved in such blatant criminal acts on video doing it would suffer adequate punishment... specially being on camera doing it.


Sadly that's not the case. Once again. I agree it's probably more prone in Russia. But fucked up hazings are a global phenomenon, not just military.

Although it does appear military are more exempt from civilian punishment and jail time. This goes for aus as well.

For instance in this article sited as proof of Russian hazing deaths
jimbob27 said:
https://www.fairplanet.org/editors-pick/hazing-is-still-common-and-deadly-in-the-russian-army/
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Is literally soldiers committing suicide. Not stories of the abuse. Or being killed violently... it's young men committing suicide more than likely due to abuse suffered.

If we begin to add suicides to the data... we are most definitely in a glass house throwing stones....

I find it odd to use hazings as any sort of Russia bad concept completely inadequate. Especially from 15 years ago. Whilst we have criminals on camera more recently being exempt from Legal prosecution that would occur Instantly if not military and caught on camera committing the same acts.
 
KnightTemplar said:
Agreed, and any British serviceman convicted of rape would face a lengthy prison sentence on top of being dishonourably discharged. Sexual assault covers a wide variety of crimes, and I was referring to less serious examples, such as touching another soldier inappropriately.
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Unlike portrayed in social media ....
In the same russian military and even prisons sodomy was rarity....

While methodical torture and ppl being hazed multiple times in row in military and on daily basis ordered to do disgracful tasks : yeah....rus military still does have this...

You might be beaten wih chairs by some bunch with guys who will use items to beat you and might kick you when you are on ground...

They might drop you from some height on concrete etc if they will consider that it will be fun....
Order to be cleaner to clean showers and toilets used by all unit and not only once...
Maybe even month in row....

Depends from unit....
Before fall of USSR some cases where when some soldiers used assault guns on their " comrades ".
In 1989 th one guy killed 6 comrades cos they 2 months in row had used him as single cleaner for showers and toilets used by all !!!their unit....
 
Fox by the Sea said:
there's an interesting book, One soldier's War, written by Arkadi Babcenko, speaking about it.
guy was in chechen 1 & 2
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Iv read it , very brutal time to serve, also gives good picture about stuff chechens were doing.

Author was rumoured to be killed by rus goverment since he jumped to ukraine back in day(he turned out to be alive), sherdog even had thread about it lol
 
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