Social Russian army hazing

[SandisLL]

I will tell, guys, to serve in USSR military in 1980 ies was more seroius lottery than to serve prison term .
You might had get in normal unit and if you were poor lad you then might be even happy....
Or in retarded unit you will beg God to better be in prison in cell with harcdore criminals de facto still ruled by remaining of thiefs in law....
Cos they at least always had unwitten rule that they need " valid " excuse for each thing they are doing with you.... despite they were hardcore seasoned criminals....
0fc it was real death risk.......

While at least they never had ordered to torture guy with even 0 excuse just cos lad is new guy here.
In USSR military in 1980 ies it happened on routine basis in some units. Guys had disappeared, to run from units, had killed their team " mates "....

We in our area had one guy who attempted to play this stuff with newly hired guys to work in special forces unit....
He died in dining room...
Fact that he now was commisioned officer didn't had saved from death.
Like another sergeant SOB...he died after get some kicks and punch + chair applied on his head.....quickly...

NATO standards at least applies some codex and rules + IQ requirements for sergeants and other NCO rank ppl + education standards and some skills level should be tested in person....

 

[SandisLL]

Hazing per se to some extent exists also in western student fraternities, circles, teams, gyms ( yup in some % of them and usually done without even telling what this will be and is....) etc ... btw in gyms sometimes it isn't supported by managment and owners ...while still happens...

 

[Billy no mates]

Luckily, armies in the West are too busy sodomizing each other to engage in this sort of brutal hazing. It is a good thing that war isn't about brutality in any way, but more about one's proficiency with gender pronouns and sodomy technique.

The Russian army seems quite keen on sodomy and fellatio as part of its hazing culture , obviously its all done in 'Russia Strong' 'no homo' sort of way though......

 

[jimbob27]

Yeah I'd love to believe western militaries are a notch better in their hazing better than the treatment of Russian " hazings "

But I tend to not believe it sadly.

Hazing in itself creates these situations. Regardless of nation, hell even Regardless of occupation. ( look at college's. Sports etc )

It seems to be a global phenomenon. Regardless of nation or ( team / society/ military )

Just like a prior article I referenced, even the elite green berets wanted sexual assault of a new guy to be recorded. Ended up killing him.

The UK soldiers raped a guy with a fucking mortar. Recorded it as well. The amount of it occurring in Russia is probably greater than Western nations sure. I can give you that , that is a possibility.

But once you look into it the punishments are ludicrously in adequate and very rarely are the perpetrators given any sort of punishment that equates to the crime.

This is a heinous crime that exists everywhere and is drastically under reported. I'd even assume that Russian totals are under reported with that 30 .

When American DOD provides
What is the data on military sexual assault?
About 8.4 percent of active duty women and 1.5 percent of active duty men indicated experiencing USC in the year prior to being surveyed. Based on these rates, the Department estimates 35,875 active duty Service members experienced sexual assault in FY21 (about 19,255 women and 16,620 men).

Im quite loathe to say its less than 30 a month. Of course it depends what is deemed sexual assault

Totally agree it's a big problem everywhere. We all know about the Stanford Prison Experiment, it seems it's human nature for us to act like assholes to each other.

What seems to be the fundamental difference between Russia and western militaries (at least before Russia's crackdown) is how ingrained the behavior is, and how accepted it is (was?) in their chain of command.

When they had their two year conscription period it was very much considered a right of pasage to toughen up their troops. For the first year you're a human punchbag, unable to fight back under threat of even worse beatings. Then when you hit the second year, you become the puncher, and can take out a years worth of frustration on the next batch of new guys.

In western militaries, this "right of passage" is formalized in the form of drill instructors who do all the bullying and toughening, but are supposed to act within set professional boundries. Obviously a lot of peer-on-peer hazing still goes on, but it's done as extra curricular activity and kept hidden from higher-ups.

Most of my info is admittedly old, from dedovshchina documentaries made before their changes, but I find it hard to believe it was magically eliminated at exactly the same time they stopped reporting stats.

In the last few years Russian culture has doubled down on their love of toxic masculnity, it would seem....illogical that their military has made any moves to become less of a toxic macho environment.

The only reason they had a crackdown in the first place was because of the bad PR, back in the years when they had some level of journalistic freedom. There were a few poor sods who became poster-children for these beatings, one of the more notable ones being Andrey Sychyov who was beat so bad they had to amputate his legs and genitals.

 

[SurferH2O]

ROFL! They have NOTHING on American Army hazing. For instance, they ask you your pronouns and when command is not looking, they don't use them.

It's horrific.

 

[Cole train]

Totally agree it's a big problem everywhere. We all know about the Stanford Prison Experiment, it seems it's human nature for us to act like assholes to each other.

What seems to be the fundamental difference between Russia and western militaries (at least before Russia's crackdown) is how ingrained the behavior is, and how accepted it is (was?) in their chain of command.

When they had their two year conscription period it was very much considered a right of pasage to toughen up their troops. For the first year you're a human punchbag, unable to fight back under threat of even worse beatings. Then when you hit the second year, you become the puncher, and can take out a years worth of frustration on the next batch of new guys.

In western militaries, this "right of passage" is formalized in the form of drill instructors who do all the bullying and toughening, but are supposed to act within set professional boundries. Obviously a lot of peer-on-peer hazing still goes on, but it's done as extra curricular activity and kept hidden from higher-ups.

Most of my info is admittedly old, from dedovshchina documentaries made before their changes, but I find it hard to believe it was magically eliminated at exactly the same time they stopped reporting stats.

In the last few years Russian culture has doubled down on their love of toxic masculnity, it would seem....illogical that their military has made any moves to become less of a toxic macho environment.

The only reason they had a crackdown in the first place was because of the bad PR, back in the years when they had some level of journalistic freedom. There were a few poor sods who became poster-children for these beatings, one of the more notable ones being Andrey Sychyov who was beat so bad they had to amputate his legs and genitals.

They managed to make service ok by changing it from 2 years to 1.Basically russian military had caste system

Elders meaning those who have been serving over 1 year

Younglins who have been serving under 1 year

Whole hazing shit was due to elders beating up younglins which changing service to 1 year took care of.They had to change since no one wanted to serve.

Stuff still happens like group fights, criminal activity or even a concripts versus police spec ops shootout (happened in mid 2010s in worst place to serve) but nothing like before.

Book mentioned above is good read about rus military in 90s, physical and sexual abuse, drugs criminal activity chechen wars etc

(Author himself was nearly raped, what saved him was piece of glass in hand and elders not having "lube", he still got beaten next night)

 

[James Bomb]

What in the actual fuck are you talking about

He’s just horny for Russian hazing.

Right wingers tell on themselves all the time.

 

[Anewt]

Totally agree it's a big problem everywhere. We all know about the Stanford Prison Experiment, it seems it's human nature for us to act like assholes to each other.

What seems to be the fundamental difference between Russia and western militaries (at least before Russia's crackdown) is how ingrained the behavior is, and how accepted it is (was?) in their chain of command.

When they had their two year conscription period it was very much considered a right of pasage to toughen up their troops. For the first year you're a human punchbag, unable to fight back under threat of even worse beatings. Then when you hit the second year, you become the puncher, and can take out a years worth of frustration on the next batch of new guys.

In western militaries, this "right of passage" is formalized in the form of drill instructors who do all the bullying and toughening, but are supposed to act within set professional boundries. Obviously a lot of peer-on-peer hazing still goes on, but it's done as extra curricular activity and kept hidden from higher-ups.

Most of my info is admittedly old, from dedovshchina documentaries made before their changes, but I find it hard to believe it was magically eliminated at exactly the same time they stopped reporting stats.

In the last few years Russian culture has doubled down on their love of toxic masculnity, it would seem....illogical that their military has made any moves to become less of a toxic macho environment.

The only reason they had a crackdown in the first place was because of the bad PR, back in the years when they had some level of journalistic freedom. There were a few poor sods who became poster-children for these beatings, one of the more notable ones being Andrey Sychyov who was beat so bad they had to amputate his legs and genitals.

Good post mate.

, it seems it's human nature for us to act like assholes to each other.

Sadly a highly accurate statement, I guess it carries on and those who are victims become the perpetrators . Happens in a lot of other crimes (abuse) it should be expected here and there as well.



Shitty situations create shitty outcomes I guess and I definitely would assume conscripts to regular military treat them as different. Creating a far more us v them mentality which probably causes far greater amounts of this kind of thing ( in Russia )

Cheers for a polite rational discussion mate

 

[Feniamin]

The Russian military are a bunch of raping bandits. They were during Soviet times and they still are. The stories of what they did in Chechnya are horrific. Their purges. That wasn't all that long ago - the 2nd Chechen War was with Putin in power. Nothing has changed.

Well, stories are not facts. For example I saw at Russian mma forum valetudo.ru Chechen guy claimed that Russia used nuclear weapons against Chechnya.

 

[HOLA]

Well, stories are not facts. For example I saw at Russian mma forum valetudo.ru Chechen guy claimed that Russia used nuclear weapons against Chechnya.

Bullshit. The evidence supporting their purges is overwhelming and not even denied in Russia.

Russian journalists in Chechnya who witnessed it and wrote about it, like Anna Politkovskaya, were themselves raped by the Russian military and eventually assassinated.

Look to the Budanov case. Colonel goes to a Chechen house because someone told him a beautiful girl lives there. So he goes with a group of soldiers, took the 18 year old girl, kidnapped her, tortured her, raped her, and finally killed her. Actually, according to the medical exam, he might have killed her then raped her. The Russian officers in Chechnya supported Budanov en masse, and so did the Russian public. It was a "socially motivated" and therefore, justifiable murder. The idea that he was being held accountable caused outrage. Before this the Russian military had carte blanche to do whatever they wanted.

The only surprising thing about the case was that he was actually arrested. There were many similar stories and nothing happened to them. In Russia, only a higher commander can give permission for an officer of his to be arrested, or even for a prosecutor to work on his base. The general who usually worked with Budanov was corrupt, as usual, and in cahoots with him. So nothing ever happened. But that general happened to be on leave and another general was filling in when this was brought to his attention. He was a rare one with a conscience and he allowed Budanov to be arrested.

Budanov was initially found not guilty by reason of "temporary insanity." Then a new trial in 2003 found him guilty. He got released on parole in 2008. The lawyer for the Chechen girl was assassinated. A Chechen assassinated Budanov in 2011. For him, they decided 15 years in prison was appropriate.

 

[Devil's_Advocate]

Totally agree it's a big problem everywhere. We all know about the Stanford Prison Experiment, it seems it's human nature for us to act like assholes to each other.

What seems to be the fundamental difference between Russia and western militaries (at least before Russia's crackdown) is how ingrained the behavior is, and how accepted it is (was?) in their chain of command.

When they had their two year conscription period it was very much considered a right of pasage to toughen up their troops. For the first year you're a human punchbag, unable to fight back under threat of even worse beatings. Then when you hit the second year, you become the puncher, and can take out a years worth of frustration on the next batch of new guys.

In western militaries, this "right of passage" is formalized in the form of drill instructors who do all the bullying and toughening, but are supposed to act within set professional boundries. Obviously a lot of peer-on-peer hazing still goes on, but it's done as extra curricular activity and kept hidden from higher-ups.

Most of my info is admittedly old, from dedovshchina documentaries made before their changes, but I find it hard to believe it was magically eliminated at exactly the same time they stopped reporting stats.

In the last few years Russian culture has doubled down on their love of toxic masculnity, it would seem....illogical that their military has made any moves to become less of a toxic macho environment.

The only reason they had a crackdown in the first place was because of the bad PR, back in the years when they had some level of journalistic freedom. There were a few poor sods who became poster-children for these beatings, one of the more notable ones being Andrey Sychyov who was beat so bad they had to amputate his legs and genitals.

The Russian way is not to solve problems, it is typically to hide them and to eliminate the trouble makers who harp on it.

Maybe the change in mandatory service requirements helped however them no longer reporting numbers speaks volumes.

 

[Feniamin]

Bullshit. The evidence supporting their purges is overwhelming and not even denied in Russia.

Russian journalists in Chechnya who witnessed it and wrote about it, like Anna Politkovskaya, were themselves raped by the Russian military and eventually assassinated.

Look to the Budanov case. Colonel goes to a Chechen house because someone told him a beautiful girl lives there. So he goes with a group of soldiers, took the 18 year old girl, kidnapped her, tortured her, raped her, and finally killed her. Actually, according to the medical exam, he might have killed her then raped her. The Russian officers in Chechnya supported Budanov en masse, and so did the Russian public. It was a "socially motivated" and therefore, justifiable murder. The idea that he was being held accountable caused outrage. Before this the Russian military had carte blanche to do whatever they wanted.

The only surprising thing about the case was that he was actually arrested. There were many similar stories and nothing happened to them. In Russia, only a higher commander can give permission for an officer of his to be arrested, or even for a prosecutor to work on his base. The general who usually worked with Budanov was corrupt, as usual, and in cahoots with him. So nothing ever happened. But that general happened to be on leave and another general was filling in when this was brought to his attention. He was a rare one with a conscience and he allowed Budanov to be arrested.

Budanov was initially found not guilty by reason of "temporary insanity." Then a new trial in 2003 found him guilty. He got released on parole in 2008. The lawyer for the Chechen girl was assassinated. A Chechen assassinated Budanov in 2011. For him, they decided 15 years in prison was appropriate.

Politkovskaya was raped? You are mistaken here with someone else.

According to sources Budanov goes to a house of family where father of said family illegally owns weapon and daughter where seen multiple times around terrorists/rebels (according to Budanov her mother was suspected to be a sniper).
Found guilty of rape was Egorov, not Budanov.
Lawyer - Markelov? Yeah, I’ve seen not so long ago European Human Rights Court decided that one of his murderers got too harsh of a sentence.

I think I also saw in internet discussions, like one side claims that in Russia (or it was USSR ?) there were a Chechen genocide, while other claims that when after genocide there is more people of that ethnicity alive than there were pre-genocide, it’s some strange case of genocide.

 

[Day Drinking]

As others have stated: while hazing, bullying and sexual assault do happen in the British Armed Forces, it's at a much lower level than the Russian army. And when it comes to light, the penalties are severe. Sexually assault a fellow soldier in the British Army and, at the very least, you're going to be demoted in rank. And the conviction will follow you throughout your career. Worst case scenario would be Dishonourable Discharge and Prison.

Oh no, not a demotion. That'll show those rapists.

 

[KnightTemplar]

Oh no, not a demotion. That'll show those rapists.

And one more time for the Hard of Thinking: Rape in the British Military is treated just as seriously as it is in civilian life. Any soldier, marine etc found guilty of rape would be Dishonourably Discharged and sentenced to a significant prison term.

Punishments such as being demoted in rank are reserved for much less serious offences, such as getting drunk at a party and coping a feel of a female soldier etc.

 

[Day Drinking]

And one more time for the Hard of Thinking: Rape in the British Military is treated just as seriously as it is in civilian life. Any soldier, marine etc found guilty of rape would be Dishonourably Discharged and sentenced to a significant prison term.

Punishments such as being demoted in rank are reserved for much less serious offences, such as getting drunk at a party and coping a feel of a female soldier etc.

Well, I checked the official report. Over 1 in 3 women said that their reports were handled "extremely poorly". One in 5 said they didn't bother to report them at all because nothing would be done. A full third report reprisals. A quarter of all servicemenbers think that command would label someone who makes a formal sexual assault complaint as a troublemaker.

So no. It doesn't sound like they are actually taking it seriously.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_misconduct_in_the_British_military#cite_note-:2632-1

 

[KnightTemplar]

Well, I checked the official report. Over 1 in 3 women said that their reports were handled "extremely poorly". One in 5 said they didn't bother to report them at all because nothing would be done. A full third report reprisals. A quarter of all servicemenbers think that command would label someone who makes a formal sexual assault complaint as a troublemaker.

So no. It doesn't sound like they are actually taking it seriously.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_misconduct_in_the_British_military#cite_note-:2632-1

No different from civilian life, then, where many women refuse to report being raped for fear of not being believed, reprisals etc. Rape convictions hit a historic low between 2019 - 2020, with the Director of the CPS admitting

"It is clear that much more needs to be done both to encourage rape victims to come forward, and to support them through the criminal justice process"

None of the above changes the fact that when a report of rape is received, the crime will be investigated and the accused soldier, if found guilty, can expect a lengthy prison sentence. To take just one example: Gunner Joshua Holt of the Royal Artillery was convicted by Court Martial of raping a female soldier in his unit. He was sentenced to seven years in jail, and placed on the Sex Offenders Register indefinitely.

The process of reporting such crimes may be as flawed in the military as it is in civilian life. But any soldier convicted of sexual offences can expect to be heavily punished for it.

 

[SandisLL]

Politkovskaya was raped? You are mistaken here with someone else.

According to sources Budanov goes to a house of family where father of said family illegally owns weapon and daughter where seen multiple times around terrorists/rebels (according to Budanov her mother was suspected to be a sniper).
Found guilty of rape was Egorov, not Budanov.
Lawyer - Markelov? Yeah, I’ve seen not so long ago European Human Rights Court decided that one of his murderers got too harsh of a sentence.

I think I also saw in internet discussions, like one side claims that in Russia (or it was USSR ?) there were a Chechen genocide, while other claims that when after genocide there is more people of that ethnicity alive than there were pre-genocide, it’s some strange case of genocide.

I hope you are well paid for your work in russian troll farm regardless where you today are located. Sadly you aren't in Bakhmut....

About Politkovskaya I have no clue about her experience with Checnya stuff.
This female journalist had been killed by assasins after some articles criticising Kremlin's budget policy and way how they are spending taxpayers money ....menitioning about necessity to do audits ....
Also admitted corruption level russia does have.
Ofc also some political things, Kremlin's decisions critique.
Maybe earlier she had articles about checnya, I dunno, I then didn't had followed her articles etc....

 

[SandisLL]

Regards to russian military crimes in Checnya, ofc FSB and russian police weren't concerned about rape cases and lootings, robberies etc...

While even in ruSSia is widely known reality that some rus military guys had sold for example fuel and ammunition....to everyone who offered to pay more.

Some cunts sold weapons to criminals in russia, ofc also ammunition and hand grenades.

Ofc issued to them assault guns, pistols they didn't had sold, they weren't absolutely dumb...
Abadoned or captured weapons.....
Some ammo, hand grenades etc.
FSB ofc attempted to track this shit and military commanders too and still shit happened.

 

[SandisLL]

Now ofc again is beauty starting in ruSSia: in some areas in ruSSia number of cases where crimes had been done with weapons usage involved had increased...
Cos obivious reasons.

 

[SakurabasEar]

I'd like to see them try to haze jeff monson