International Russia/Ukraine Megathread V9

[Hog-train]

U.S. readies $2 billion-plus Ukraine aid package with longer-range weapons -sources (msn.com)

Open your eyes my friend

The missiles and munitions are running out so we have to either produce more or buy from sources like South Korea. But the vast majority of the actual hardware like the M2 Bradley's, Abrams, Patriot Missile systems, HIMARS, troop transport vehicles were all OLD. Not bought with new money. So really not this huge giveaway. In fact, the vast majority of the troop transport vehicles were obsolete and about to be decomissioned or scrapped.

We also gave old M-17 helicopters that we got for Afghanistan's old government but now have zero use for us. Again - old shit we have no use for. But in your eyes "OMG a multi-million dollar giveaway to the military industrial complex!"

 

[Cid]

U.S. readies $2 billion-plus Ukraine aid package with longer-range weapons -sources (msn.com)

Open your eyes my friend

Can you highlight the new equipment for us mr genius?

 

[JoeyJoeJoeJr]

The missiles and munitions are running out so we have to either produce more or buy from sources like South Korea. But the vast majority of the actual hardware like the M2 Bradley's, Abrams, Patriot Missile systems, HIMARS, troop transport vehicles were all OLD. Not bought with new money. So really not this huge giveaway.

They have to be replaced, so they will be replaced with new tanks, new missile systems, which are worth a lot. It's easy to justify asking for more money for more tanks when you've given some away. Do you honestly think it's going to stop here? The military industrial complex will continue to look for ways to give more, to justify increasing military budgets and enriching contractors and weapons manufacturers. The US uses every global conflict or situation in order to advance their own agenda. Covid was used by the pharmaceutical companies just as Ukraine is being used by the weapons contractors and politicians. It's a scam.

 

[Cid]

I know polling is not a legit way to gain information because it's often bias and only representative of a very small fraction of people. You probably believed Hilary Clinton had a 99% chance of winning the election as well.

Why would I when the polls had it pretty close?

Democratic elections are generally pretty evenly contested in most instances. Maybe watch a little less MSM buddy.

 

[Hog-train]

They have to be replaced, so they will be replaced with new tanks, new missile systems, which are worth a lot. It's easy to justify asking for more money for more tanks when you've given some away. Do you honestly think it's going to stop here? The military industrial complex will continue to look for ways to give more, to justify increasing military budgets and enriching contractors and weapons manufacturers. The US uses every global conflict or situation in order to advance their own agenda. Covid was used by the pharmaceutical companies just as Ukraine is being used by the weapons contractors and politicians. It's a scam.

They were being decommissioned and were going to be replaced regardless. Save for the Patriot air defense systems. Which I'd argue is worth it because it is a defensive weapon that will save countless civilian lives.

And the helicopters being donated weren't being replaced at all. They were bought for the Afghan government that got ousted by the Taliban. So no need for them.

Secondly, learn what Lend-Lease is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease

 

[JoeyJoeJoeJr]

They were being decommissioned and were going to be replaced regardless. Save for the Patriot air defense systems.

And the helicopters being donated weren't being replaced at all. They were bought for the Afghan government that got ousted by the Taliban.

Secondly, learn what Lend-Lease is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease

You're not looking at the full picture. You're selectively talking about certain weapons.

"The United States is readying more than $2 billion worth of military aid for Ukraine that is expected to include longer-range rockets for the first time as well as other munitions and weapons, two U.S. officials briefed on the matter told Reuters on Tuesday."

That was just the beginning, just wait. They're already looking for more ways to send weapons.

 

[Hog-train]

You're not looking at the full picture. You're selectively talking about certain weapons.

"The United States is readying more than $2 billion worth of military aid for Ukraine that is expected to include longer-range rockets for the first time as well as other munitions and weapons, two U.S. officials briefed on the matter told Reuters on Tuesday."

That was just the beginning, just wait. They're already looking for more ways to send weapons.

2 billion - even 50 billion is pennies if it means relegating one of the world's biggest threats back to 3rd world status.

We spent 2 trillion in Iraq (which I didn't agree with at all.) What we have spent in Ukraine is nothing in comparison. It's a complete bargain. We're not actually fighting and relegating a huge global threat to possible regime change in the future. 100% BARGAIN.

And again, the media is saying we spent 50 billion so far. But that's not actually correct. They're counting the original price tag on OLD EQUIPMENT as what we "spent." But we didn't actually spend it in today's dollars. We spent it like 30 years ago and giving them the used hardware.

I actually want the US to help them more with the newest missile systems.

 

[Rational Poster]

You're not looking at the full picture. You're selectively talking about certain weapons.

"The United States is readying more than $2 billion worth of military aid for Ukraine that is expected to include longer-range rockets for the first time as well as other munitions and weapons, two U.S. officials briefed on the matter told Reuters on Tuesday."

That was just the beginning, just wait. They're already looking for more ways to send weapons.

US military spend $286B/yr just on maintenance and target practice. Another $100B on procurement.

I think we'll be alright.

 

[aerius]

2 billion - even 50 billion is pennies if it means relegating one of the world's biggest threats back to 3rd world status.

Question for you: have you considered the 2nd & 3rd order geopolitical effects of Russia being reduced to a 3rd world shithole?

 

[Hog-train]

Question for you: have you considered the 2nd & 3rd order geopolitical effects of Russia being reduced to a 3rd world shithole?

That's a fair question and I don't know the answer. But what is the alternative? Let Russia win? Do you think Russia would have stopped at just the Eastern part of Ukraine and Crimea? Keep in mind, he has literally said Ukraine is not a real country multiple times before the invasion. His original intention was to completely annex all of Ukraine.

Russia also annexed part of Georgia and has been messing with every other former Soviet Republic.

 

[Hog-train]

Don't know how accurate this is - but entertaining evaluation.

 

[GhostZ06]

Asked about sending weapons to Ukraine, South Korea doesn’t say no

This would be a game changer if South Korea decides to help with weapons. They're currently ranked the 6th out of 145 in the world's military rankings and have huge stockpiles of NATO compatible and modern high tech weapons. They have the only alternative to the US made HIMARS (K239 Chunmoo) that have been so effective so far. This would allow Ukraine to hit high priority targets deep inside Crimea and Russia. Plus have huge numbers of K-2 Black Panther tanks that are probably better than the German Leopards. (K-2 Black Panthers outperformed Leopards in a recent Norway sponsored competition to get their next tank deal.)

Paywall so I copied and pasted below.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/01/31/south-korea-ukraine-nuclear-weapons/

SEOUL — South Korea left the door open to reconsidering Seoul’s prohibition against sending weapons to Ukraine, with Defense Minister Lee Jong-sup saying Tuesday that he was aware of the “need for the international effort” and that his government was “directing our close attention” to the situation.

Lee’s remarks, in a news conference here with U.S. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin, came a day after NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg urged South Korea to change its policy of exporting defense goods “only for peaceful purposes.”

Countries such as Germany, Norway and others, Stoltenberg said during his own visit here Monday, had changed their stance “because they realized that when you are facing a brutal invasion where a big power — Russia — invades another one in a blatant way as we have seen in Ukraine, if we believe in freedom, if we believe in democracy, if we don’t want autocracy and tyranny to win, then they need weapons.”

South Korea has provided humanitarian and other nonlethal assistance directly to Ukraine. The United States has said North Korea is sending missiles to Russia to supplement its waning supplies.

Seoul was Austin’s first stop on a Pacific swing, to be followed by a two-day visit to the Philippines, where the United States hopes to secure access to key bases to provide strategic positions from which to mount operations in the event of a conflict in Taiwan or the South China Sea.

The trip, Austin’s sixth to the region and third to South Korea, is part of an overall effort to expand Washington’s Indo-Pacific alliances and partnerships as China has increased what a senior defense official called its “sharp uptick in destabilizing … behavior,” including air-to-air intercepts and maritime challenges.

Threats from China, said the official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to talk about policy matters, are compounded by increased provocation from North Korea, which conducted an unprecedented number of ballistic missile tests last year and has promised this year to expand its nuclear program.

“Together, we condemn these dangerous actions, which violate international law and threaten to destabilize the region,” Austin said of Pyongyang.

He noted that the Biden administration has increased readiness here by “expanding the scope and scale” of combined exercises with South Korean forces, including plans to return to live-fire exercises suspended by the Trump administration.

Last year, “we deployed assets including F-22s, F-35s and the Ronald Reagan Carrier Strike Group,” Austin said. “We have 28,500 uniformed personnel in South Korea … one of the largest U.S. troop deployments around the world.”


But the secretary sidestepped a question about remarks early this month by South Korean President Yoon Suk Yeol that Seoul might need nuclear weapons of its own or would demand redeployment of U.S. nuclear arms on the Korean Peninsula in light of the growing North Korean threat.

Without directly commenting on Yoon’s remarks, Lee said the policy of “extended deterrence” means that even if North Korea does “use their nuclear capabilities, [South] Korea and the United States have the capability to deter their efforts, and also that the United States has the will to deter nuclear weapons.”

The Biden administration has sought to discourage any suggestion that South Korea would develop its own nuclear arsenal, emphasizing that the U.S. defense commitment to Seoul is sacrosanct and sufficient.

It “includes the full range of U.S. defense capabilities, including our conventional, nuclear and missile defense capabilities,” Austin said. The commitment, he said, is “ironclad.”

“It’s not a slogan, it’s what we’re all about.”

Polling has indicated development of a South Korean nuclear deterrent is popular here, but “mainstream politicians have largely stayed away from advocating proliferation,” Stephen Herzog, a senior researcher in nuclear arms control at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology, wrote last week in a commentary for the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.

But increased activities by Pyongyang allow Yoon to “brandish the national security card” and appeal to nationalist sentiment to increase South Korea’s independence from the United States, Herzog said.

Austin and Lee each emphasized the importance they place on new levels of defense cooperation with Japan. “Let me underscore our mutual belief that trilateral cooperation with Japan enhances all of our security,” Austin said.

Wait, is this true? That would be bad ass, its also designed for that kind of Terrain. Plus with Poland building a K2 plant in poland....

 

[Scerpi]

The missiles and munitions are running out so we have to either produce more or buy from sources like South Korea. But the vast majority of the actual hardware like the M2 Bradley's, Abrams, Patriot Missile systems, HIMARS, troop transport vehicles were all OLD. Not bought with new money. So really not this huge giveaway. In fact, the vast majority of the troop transport vehicles were obsolete and about to be decomissioned or scrapped.

We also gave old M-17 helicopters that we got for Afghanistan's old government but now have zero use for us. Again - old shit we have no use for. But in your eyes "OMG a multi-million dollar giveaway to the military industrial complex!"

Except the Abram tanks being sent over will be brand new.

And the US IS going to replace all the equipment sent over with new equipment.

This will be an absolute bonanza for Defense Contractors.

 

[Hog-train]

Except the Abram tanks being sent over will be brand new.

And the US IS going to replace all the equipment sent over with new equipment.

This will be an absolute bonanza for Defense Contractors.

The US Army has 2,300 Abrams in storage and have not built new Abrams tanks since the early 1990s.

The 31 tanks being sent are not being newly built.

 

[SandisLL]

Yanukovych was about to sign the treaty with the EU. He pulled out at the very last moment, very unexpectedly, even apologising to EU leaders making it pretty clear that he'd been threatened by the Kremlin and could not sign. The result was nearly half a million Ukrainian citizens taking to the street in the Maidan uprising. Putin would have us believe it was a western funded coup but it was clearly the Ukrainian people who were absolutely disgusted by Yanukovych selling out the future prosperity of everyone in their country for what they probably thought was money. But I bet it was an offer he could not refuse, probably silver or lead.

And you have to remember that Yanukovych had always campaigned on Ukraine becoming more integrated with the EU he would never have got elected if he had not promised that. It was the will of the Ukrainian people that Russia would not allow. And shortly after Russia annexed Crimea.

This.

Cos it wasn't about possible membership in EU.

It was mainly just trading deal.

If Ukraine had signed this paper, EU had lowered custom fees for goods exported from Ukr to EU.
This had boosted Ukraine's export to European Union and might had allowed companies exporting from Ukr to EU earn more profit....

 

[Denter]

Except the Abram tanks being sent over will be brand new.

And the US IS going to replace all the equipment sent over with new equipment.

This will be an absolute bonanza for Defense Contractors.

The downside of new is that they will have to be manufactured, which will not be fast at all.

 

[Hog-train]

Wait, is this true? That would be bad ass, its also designed for that kind of Terrain. Plus with Poland building a K2 plant in poland....

South Korea has an existing law that says they can only export weapons for "peaceful" purposes. The NATO secretary general is putting political pressure for them to change that.

Right now, North Korea is helping Russia. So who knows? Maybe they will change.

Currently, South Korea is helping indirectly by selling munitions to the US which is giving them to Ukraine. And also helping re-arm Poland as it gives arms to Ukraine. South Korean weapons are state of the art and would be a total game changer.

 

[SandisLL]

I had posted in summer: get somewhere upgraded in 1988-1994 ies M60A3 and sent to this Ukr.

Yeah, they aren't capable to fight with T-80 and T-90 or upgraded T-72 for USSR from 1988 th...

While they does have even some benefits Abrams doesn't have.
High pressure 105 mm gun is rifled.
This allows to use it as indirect fire support self propelled gun.
Till some 8 km range it is very effective for this role + NATO does have damn a lot different ammunition for this .....

Then.. It is simple if compare with Abrams....

Next: it will easily deNazify all these T-62 ies, all BMP 1, BMP 2, BMP 3 and BTR vecihles and from decent range.....

Next....
On the roof might be installed remotely controlled firing station...
With ATGMS or automatic grenade launcher, 12,7 mm or 7,62 mm machine gun....

Plus....
There is possible to do fast upgrades...
For armour: to install ERA or NeRA blocks....quickly.

Engine too might be changed to more powerful diesel....

+ despite museum exponat for fight with modern main battle tanks ....
It is better than f.e BMP3, BMP2 or BMP1 etc stuff.

Also it isn't possible to penterate M60A3 armour in the front of turret and glacis with 30 mm autocannon most widely used by russian BMP and BTRs...

deNazify BMPs and BTRs M60A3 main gun is capable from 3000 meters range.

It is better than T-62 or early 1974 th T-72 versions.

 

[SandisLL]

South Korea has an existing law that says they can only export weapons for "peaceful" purposes. The NATO secretary general is putting political pressure for them to change that.

Right now, North Korea is helping Russia. So who knows? Maybe they will change.

Currently, South Korea is helping indirectly by selling munitions to the US which is giving them to Ukraine. And also helping re-arm Poland as it gives arms to Ukraine. South Korean weapons are state of the art and would be a total game changer.

South Korea is earning money and will continue to earn money cos contracts with Poland.

It is pure capitalism.
Even when poles will produce stuff under license in Poland, South Korea will get $ as license fees...

It is very cool capitalistic deal.
You might even not to produce item and still will get $ in your bank account...

+ production in Poland will allow South Korea to have backup factories safe from shelling by idiotic crazy North Korean pavian....
North Korea after russia started war in Ukraine is damn MORE aggreseive, pavian ordering more and more missile tests and frequently is yelling that might attack Seul....city .....

Last nail:
Poland is EU member and full NATO member.
So it is easier to sell weapons to EU and NATO countries....

Again big bonus for South Korea : if Poland will produce tank : SK will get license fee automatically.
If they will sell such weapons to other EU/ NATO countries, South Korea will get even more high license fee.

The agreement about license fees with South Korea is document with 958 paper pages....

 

[Hog-train]

Russia is really fuqqed if the war keeps going and the sanctions still in. In fact, rest of the world is fuqqed except the Americas.