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International Russia/Ukraine Megathread V8

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Cid said:
China smashes Russia with ease.

China has an insane % of their military budget going towards R&D and have for a long time now. In all likelihood there isn't much of a tech differential, actually probably an advantage to China. China is trying to catch America, they have a massive economy which supports an insane R&D budget, it's going to yield results. They obviously aren't catching America any time soon but they're likely to be at least on parity with Russia if not surpassing them.

Then you have the manufacturing capacity.

Can you imagine how many cheap loitering munitions China would be able to produce in a year? How many of their HIMARS knockoffs and the accompanying rockets?

You don't need a competent military when you can produce millions of smart munitions in a year.
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It also seems the Chinese military is simply better with more professional soldiers, lots of NCOs.
The current war will make China rethink a lot of stuff they do too. It's likely they will focus even more on the production of native tanks and planes. They will invest heavily in a NLAW/Javelin equivalent. Lots of drones as you said.

The main difference will be that China is a rising economic power and their system might be corrupt and undemocratic but it works, kinda like the Soviet system worked. Russia's system doesn't really work. It's a broken country ruled by criminals.
 
San Marino said:
How exactly is Europe going to fold? Isn't the Ukrainian Army destroying the Russian Amy with little training?

What alliances? The 25% Europe provided the US in Iraq and Afghanistan? France, Germany, and Britain just could not wait to join the fight - not! All three played minor roles.

Russia can't defeat Ukraine in 8 months. What makes you thin they will take over the whole of Ukraine and all of Europe?

Good morning fellow members watching this conflict unfold. Who is winning? Of course, this war has been so sterilized it is hard to tell what truth is and what is a lie. The intel community would have you think that Ukraine is all unicorns and rainbows, and Russia is all death and destruction - and yet Russia is still in Ukraine. Our wonderful intel community, the CIA, keeps getting it wrong. Nothing new here. They fucked up in Grenada, Panama, Iraq, and Afghanistan. Why should Ukraine be any different? A lot of American soldiers killed due to poor intelligence. Those CIA boys and girls 'primadonnas' with their PhDs who have never spent a day in combat. Their daily priority is making sure the coffee is hot and the donuts are fresh.

A moderator wrote to me and said that the 'War Room' was not like the 'Mayberry.' It does not hand out as many infractions. Flamming, Trolling, and Derailing are normal. No shit! You can get nasty in the WR. The gloves are off! Said I should just ignore the idiots in this thread. He also agreed there were a few. I said, why bother? I have my views and they have theirs. Neither side is changing the other's point of view.

Zelensky has a nice Christmas list of things he wants from Biden. Like yesterday. More money, weapons and training. What does the US get in return? Nothing. Zelensky does not really care about American problems. All he wants are his weapons and money - for free. Fuck US opinion on the war and the billions being spent. This is Ukraine we are talking - the center of the universe. I don't recall all this hate towards the US when we invaded Iraq (on false information - WMD) and Afghanistan. At least Korea and Vietnam were by invitation. I'm guessing 3 more years of war with neither side having a victory. Could be wrong, just like the CIA. Meanwhile no one cares what is going on in Myanmar (10,000+ casualties), Afghanistan, Congo, Ethiopia, Mali, Nigeria, Somalia, Syria, and Yemen. Of course, Ukraine is more important than the other countries. ULM: Ukrainian Lives Matter.
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What a lovely rambling diatribe
 
Badr Hari said:
Because Ukraine isn't a local matter of a district, it's a foreign policy matter in which you don't have a say, but people with expertise on the subject. Ukraine is the second largest country in Europe, after Russia, and now probably has the third largest army in Europe. It has resources, many talented people mostly pro-US oriented and is a strategic partner for USA's foreign policy. It is in America's interest to defend it's partners (not just the benefit of the partner), it is mutual long term gains. Being a world super power automatically gives you a certain more responsible role in different matters across the globe. And it isn't a matter of choice if you want to be engaged in those decisions or not, you simply have to behave a certain way. Foreign policy is after all a continuation of internal policy. Being a winner on foreign policy matters has it's benefits for the internal life of all americans indirectly. Just like failing in those matters has an indirect negative effect on it too. Letting Putin take Ukraine with all its land, resources and most importantly it's large army would be a big L for US foreign policy. No european country would have the balls anymore to say no to Putin's future demands and all of your european partners would hesitate to continue co-operation in the security and in the economic sphere too. Things are linked.
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Which countries in europe have bigger militaries? Think ukr has biggest,because generally west europes militaries are fairly small
 
Boxiana said:
Good joke. And about as original as the rest of the shite you post on here.
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You mean the shit you post in here?
C'mon dude you can do better than that. Going to join your other idiot friends in this thread? What a bunch of fucktards.
So self-righteous and so ignorant.
 
Cole train said:
Which countries in europe have bigger militaries? Think ukr has biggest,because generally west europes militaries are fairly small
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France.
Army, Navy, and Air Force, also nuclear weapons.
Russia just proved that size does not matter. Not in the bedroom anyway.
 
PEB said:
Not really this is common of Russia sending planes out and do warning shots that's why the plane continued flying.
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Common? It sounds plausible but clearly something has changed because now these surveillance planes will have routine escorts from Typhoon fighters. It seems like the RAF took this incident more seriously or maybe they are escalating?
 
Denter said:
What's the scope? These things have happened in this war and in all wars. Ukrainians have also used human shields, killed prisoners, shot civilians, etc. The whole purpose of propaganda like this is to get people with low impulse control whipped into a frenzy. These things don't impact our strategic aims, the morality of the war, etc. They simply serve to dehumanize the enemy.

If you saw irrefutable proof of Ukrainian militia executing collaborators, or using human shields, or torturing POWs, would you stop supporting them?

Or would you ask, quite intelligently, how common it was? Is this official AFU policy? Was this just part of the chaos of war? Of course you would, because you aren't emotionally blinded by anger towards the AFU.
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You are dead right, you need scope but the proportion is overwhelmingly tipped to the Russians committing the bulk of these atrocities. So far many of the worse accusations against the Ukrainians have been blatantly false with little to no solid evidence to back them up. e.g. The Mariupol Theatre bombing. The same is not true in the reverse.

Show me some good evidence of Ukrainians using human shields , killing prisoners and shooting civilians? No in fact, I'll lower the bar for you, just give me the BEST examples you have. On the other hand I can show you hundreds of photos depicting mass graves in Ukraine.
 
Blayt7hh said:
I don't think this would necessarily lead to WW3. For one, I don't really blame them for shooting at a spy plane near where they are operating. I think it could end up with an air conflict where we start shooting down anything that gets too close to our planes.
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Hang on. I thought the whole imposition of a no-fly zone was a no no because it would lead to WWIII if NATO planes shot down Russian ones? This is assuming that the RAF plane was not in Ukrainian or Russian airspace (which would again go against the idea of NATO not going to war). If they shoot down a NATO plane it would force NATO into a corner. It would be the same if Russia tried to take out a ground based radar system in Poland.
 
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aries said:
You are dead right, you need scope but the proportion is overwhelmingly tipped to the Russians committing the bulk of these atrocities. So far many of the worse accusations against the Ukrainians have been blatantly false with little to no solid evidence to back them up. e.g. The Mariupol Theatre bombing. The same is not true in the reverse.

Show me some good evidence of Ukrainians using human shields , killing prisoners and shooting civilians? No in fact, I'll lower the bar for you, just give me the BEST examples you have. On the other hand I can show you hundreds of photos depicting mass graves in Ukraine.
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Human shield was literally confirmed by amnesty (mariupol). Russian speaking side of internet was full of talks about ukr setting positions in apartments with civvies in them or putting mortars in yards of houses where people lived (though might not be much choice since they really tried to hold it)

Otherwise few pow torture vids at start of conflict plus civilian bombings in donetsk and thats about it i think
 
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Cole train said:
Which countries in europe have bigger militaries? Think ukr has biggest,because generally west europes militaries are fairly small
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I thought Turkey could be 2nd in terms of size (IIRC their number of conscripts+reservists goes to 1 milion), but I guess in terms of professionals, Ukr should be 2nd after Rus.
 
Cole train said:
Which countries in europe have bigger militaries? Think ukr has biggest,because generally west europes militaries are fairly small
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Military size doesn't matter IF quality is low.

For example the same anti tank and anti aircraft weapons....
Ukraine had obsolete USSR era produced old SAM complexes.
This alone is inferiour vs stuff Finland does have.
Not to mention aviation....Finland operates F-18, Ukr: all fighter jets produced before 1992 th...

Like this.

BTW Ukr military was to some extent obsolete even if compare with Estonia.
Really obsolete..... outdated...

And if we are talking about western weapons supplies...
For example Mistral MANPDS Ukr get from Norway after war had started ....were 1st gen Mistral..Norway had intent to wrote them down after 2 years.
Estonia does have 3 rd gen Mistral... like France.
 
Next stuff are even the same radars and NASAMS.
Even Norway does have more shopisticated air defense than Ukraine....
Ukraine is below this level.

Next thing...
Artillery.
The same mice Lithiania despite small, had more modern self propelled artillery.
Despite small number yeah....
While unlike Ukr with ballistic calculators for NATO full member countries... The same german stuff Ukr begged so long until get something from this but not likely 2018 th era ballistic calculators...
And ammo. Ofc they need to station this to help protect Suvalk corridor.
While they had paid $ for this stuff before 2020 th...

Next thing is even to attempt compare Poland with Ukr. Ukr is below. With 0 doubts...
Then other countries....

The same Denark or Estonia might deNazify Moldova or Malta in few days....

___

Ukr looks that didn't had enough money to upgrade and ofc their constant trend during 30 years of lack stability....

Ukr had just some good their own produced things.
Like Stugna ATGM and Neptun missile....
These appeared good stuff. Quality. Performance.
Might be good for export btw.....for normal price.

__
 
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