International Russia/Ukraine Megathread V7

[A Very Serious Cat]

God understands only russian and serbian languages, I've been told that story multiple times already. Fuck the West, Putin is our saviour!

Where do you live btw, if you don't mind telling us? (most of the posters here tell their country of origin anyway) I'm really curious.

I prefer the line that God favours the side with the best artillery personally

 

[PEB]

 

[Snowblindlove]

God understands only russian and serbian languages, I've been told that story multiple times already. Fuck the West, Putin is our saviour!

Where do you live btw, if you don't mind telling us? (most of the posters here tell their country of origin anyway) I'm really curious.

I am from the US originally now I am in Japan

 

[Snowblindlove]

Good breakdown. The amount of time you putting into educating them is admirable.

Once the truth is aired and someone honestly sits down and sees fact that even the US was admitting in the past it becomes evident.

The Neocons and washington elite in 2010 under Obama werent happy about Yanukovich being elected in 2010 but they recognized it as legal. Back then there was so much information on the growing split in Ukraine and there was documentaries.

Then it is fact when the coup happened that Washington admits they had a hand in. (Nuland leaks etc) then all of a sudden all pro russian regions have martial law declared for over a yesr and resistance is crushed with arrests and assassinations. The 2014 election was rigged but not to the degree as 2019. It took the regime a while to fully suppress but yeah Poreshenko won in a supposed landslide in 2014 after the coup... somehow all the anti Bandera and Poreshenko voices switched sides due to Crimea annexation? Come on please.

The real shame is there are Ukrainians I have met who are from priviledged lives in Kiev who think Donbass people are russian colonizers. Not realizing the people there and of Crimea were 9 years ago all factually Ukrainian citizens who choose to join Russia. Heck a ton or most Donbass people are still technically only Ukrainian citizens legally.

The entire Donbass forces of like 50k to 75k are almost all Ukrainian male citizens fighting against their own government.

 

[ferrisjso]

Saw a good report on how Russia using foreign media to spread continuous and questionable claims about how well they are doing on the war. Funny how we cannot get to Russia any information about Ukraine successes and the brutality of Russian fighting units. I do not know why we continue to provide a free platform for them to confuse the public while they keep a locked box in Russia.

America has a free press lol.

 

[Deleted member 585708]

Once the truth is aired and someone honestly sits down and sees fact that even the US was admitting in the past it becomes evident.

The Neocons and washington elite in 2010 under Obama werent happy about Yanukovich being elected in 2010 but they recognized it as legal. Back then there was so much information on the growing split in Ukraine and there was documentaries.

Then it is fact when the coup happened that Washington admits they had a hand in. (Nuland leaks etc) then all of a sudden all pro russian regions have martial law declared for over a yesr and resistance is crushed with arrests and assassinations. The 2014 election was rigged but not to the degree as 2019. It took the regime a while to fully suppress but yeah Poreshenko won in a supposed landslide in 2014 after the coup... somehow all the anti Bandera and Poreshenko voices switched sides due to Crimea annexation? Come on please.

The real shame is there are Ukrainians I have met who are from priviledged lives in Kiev who think Donbass people are russian colonizers. Not realizing the people there and of Crimea were 9 years ago all factually Ukrainian citizens who choose to join Russia. Heck a ton or most Donbass people are still technically only Ukrainian citizens legally.

The entire Donbass forces of like 50k to 75k are almost all Ukrainian male citizens fighting against their own government.

Your version of events makes it all the more stupid that Russia threatened Kyiv directly - which they did - and even if everyone who thinks Kyiv was never a target is correct (which they aren't, because clearly regime change benefitted Russia massively), it doesn't change the fact that was an enormous tactical error from Moscow.

Put everyone's back up, make EVERYONE in Ukraine feel unsafe, ensure everyone is ready to go to war, then back off and head for Eastern Ukraine after all?

What a gaffe that is.

Just an enormous strategic blunder.

 

[A Very Serious Cat]

Do we think Sweden will cave to Turkey re nato?
Turkey is demanding they extradite a bunch of Kurds which Sweden isn't keen about and the nato application can still be blocked if they don't

https://abcnews.go.com/Internationa...ks-sweden-finland-extradite-suspects-86309482

 

[ferrisjso]

Your version of events makes it all the more stupid that Russia threatened Kyiv directly - which they did - and even if everyone who thinks Kyiv was never a target is correct (which they aren't, because clearly regime change benefitted Russia massively), it doesn't change the fact that was an enormous tactical error from Moscow.

Put everyone's back up, make EVERYONE in Ukraine feel unsafe, ensure everyone is ready to go to war, then back off and head for Eastern Ukraine after all?

What a gaffe that is.

Just an enormous strategic blunder.

They were trying to end the war quickly. Once that didn't happen they gave up. If it was about taking land they took some land in between Kiev and Belarus they could have attempted to hold for leverage purposes. Russia's designs are on different less hostile parts of the country.

Russian victory will make regime change impossible as Russia is taking millions of the Ukranian rights political opponents out of the country. Part of Ukraines stuborness is that losing land benefits the current establishment greatly from a political sense. Russia knows this they've given up on regime change they just want to take the friendly parts of Ukraine before far right Ukraine joins EU and potentially NATO.

 

[Snowblindlove]

Your version of events makes it all the more stupid that Russia threatened Kyiv directly - which they did - and even if everyone who thinks Kyiv was never a target is correct (which they aren't, because clearly regime change benefitted Russia massively), it doesn't change the fact that was an enormous tactical error from Moscow.

Put everyone's back up, make EVERYONE in Ukraine feel unsafe, ensure everyone is ready to go to war, then back off and head for Eastern Ukraine after all?

What a gaffe that is.

Just an enormous strategic blunder.

I dont know what events you are seeing but from all evidence I see Russia is winning the economic war and profiting massively which big western banks and economists are now admitting. You can argue it is a benefit to go slow and minimize casualties. In addition, the process rate they go now minimizes civilian and their own troop casualties and creates more order in captured areas that might have terror attacks done by insurgents.

The peace route was tried with the failed Minsk accords (I suggest you look it up and I also recommend Oliver Stones 2017 documentary called Ukraine on Fire"). Anyhow the Minsk II accords which the Germans and others tried to get Ukraine to sign but they wouldnt would have gave peace and stopped Ukriania suppression of internal pro russians, orthodox christians etc. Lastly there is evidence to suggest Ukraine was planning a blitzkrieg attack to invade the part of the Donbass they didnt control and overthrow the pro Russian leadership there. Now that part of Donbass was factually Ukraine legally speaking as modern UN law only allows land changes if a country agrees to swap land. However, Russia was responding in liberation to people under durress by their own government who had the added positive that they now identifird as Russians and were Russian speakers. That isnt even mentioning the historical fact the Donbass and eastern and southern Ukraine always belonged to Russia and Ukraine was created in its modern form by the USSR. I.e., Stalin annex western Ukraine from Poland, that is 80 years ago Western Ukraine belonged to Poland and had belonged to Poland since forever and Stalin gave it to Ukrainian soviet state...more lastly there is an ideology in Ukraine which has existed for a long time called Banderism or Essentially Ukrainian supremacy they worship a guy called Stephan Bandera and all his friends who were Nazis who joined the Nazis hunted down jews and went after Slavs. They didnt consider themselves to be racially slavs just lingustically. They adoppted Hitler type ideology and fought against the Soviets and massacred so many Jews. That is noted factually by Israel, Russia and many other nations.

To this day Banderas statues are all across pro ukrainian parts of Ukraine. Only in pro russian areas are his statues banned or were banned due to past allowed regional autonomy which the current Ukrainian regime has killed.

 

[Deleted member 585708]

They were trying to end the war quickly. Once that didn't happen they gave up. If it was about taking land they took some land in between Kiev and Belarus they could have attempted to hold for leverage purposes. Russia's designs are on different less hostile parts of the country.

Russian victory will make regime change impossible as Russia is taking millions of the Ukranian rights political opponents out of the country. Part of Ukraines stuborness is that losing land benefits the current establishment greatly from a political sense. Russia knows this they've given up on regime change they just want to take the friendly parts of Ukraine before far right Ukraine joins EU and potentially NATO.

Like I said, if this narrative is correct, it was a moronic move.

You think every Ukrainian citizen was willing to risk their life in the Donbas region prior to the Russian invasion of Ukraine? No, they weren't, that's why the war was confined there.

You think they're prepared to fight Russia tooth and nail after they threatened Kyiv? Absolutely, and that's a categorical fact, and they've been seen as aggressive invaders from the East right across to the West ever since.

Their aggression in the port cities and the South only underlined the fact this was one country attacking another country, NOT a dispute over a specific piece of land.

The fact anyone buys into the lies that Russia only ever designed to capture the Donbas is ridiculous, but not surprising. Muddy the waters of logic often enough and from enough directions, people will just spinning in circles trying to reason everything.

If the Donbas was the target, nobody would have ever bothered Odesa. If the Donbas was the target, nobody would have marched on Kyiv with a 40 mile convoy.

What actually happened, was Russia was caught out being disorganised.

Don't think they're good guys with a limited scope of interest. They're not.

 

[Deleted member 585708]

I dont know what events you are seeing but from all evidence I see Russia is winning the economic war and profiting massively which big western banks and economists are now admitting. You can argue it is a benefit to go slow and minimize casualties. In addition, the process rate they go now minimizes civilian and their own troop casualties and creates more order in captured areas that might have terror attacks done by insurgents.

You're a fool if you think Russia is winning an economic war.

What's your perspective?

That somehow Russia, all along, was far richer than Europe and the United States combined, and that they hid this just long enough to legitimately prop up their currency and commerce despite extraordinary measures being in place THE ENTIRE TIME?

That can't be your honest assessment? That Russia has and always had more financial might than a quarter of the world?

The financial woes of the West are legit, a result of openness and willingness to accept they're in a tough situation. The financial woes of Russia apparently don't exist.

What does that tell you?

 

[Snowblindlove]

You're a fool if you think Russia is winning an economic war.

What's your perspective?

That somehow Russia, all along, was far richer than Europe and the United States combined, and that they hid this just long enough to legitimately prop up their currency and commerce despite extraordinary measures being in place THE ENTIRE TIME?

That can't be your honest assessment? That Russia has and always had more financial might than a quarter of the world?

The financial woes of the West are legit, a result of openness and willingness to accept they're in a tough situation. The financial woes of Russia apparently don't exist.

What does that tell you?

It isnt my view its the view of many economists and banks. It is the reality

A hard pill to swallow but it blows my mind how a dislike of a country can cloud judgement so much.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.te...s-Winning-Economic-Warfare-20220603-0001.html

https://www.irishtimes.com/business...-putin-winning-the-economic-war-over-ukraine/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ny...limate/russia-oil-gas-record-revenue.amp.html

Well the view is simple. They are an economy with almost no debt, and tons of food, energy and crucial materials/minerals needed to build semi conductors, nukes, weaponry and heavy machinery. Plus they dont have internal disorder to the degree the US has and their allies are the largest countries in terms of raw resources, population sizes and manfacuteing output all committed to dedollarization and a revolt against the western neoliberal world order.

 

[Deleted member 585708]

It isnt my view its the view of many economists and banks. It is the reality

A hard pill to swallow but it blows my mind how a dislike of a country can cloud judgement so much.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.te...s-Winning-Economic-Warfare-20220603-0001.html

https://www.irishtimes.com/business...-putin-winning-the-economic-war-over-ukraine/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ny...limate/russia-oil-gas-record-revenue.amp.html

Well the view is simple. They are an economy with almost no debt, and tons of food, energy and crucial materials/minerals needed to build semi conductors, nukes, weaponry and heavy machinery. Plus they dont have internal disorder to the degree the US has and their allies are the largest countries in terms of raw resources, population sizes and manfacuteing output all committed to dedollarization and a revolt against the western neoliberal world order.

You only have to cast a slightly sceptical eye over articles like these to come up with gems like this:

"That’s not to say Russia’s economy isn’t feeling the ill-effects of sanctions and a growing corporate boycott. The International Monetary Fund believes the economy will slump into a deep recession this year, shrinking by as much as 8.5 per cent. Inflation is also running a two-decade high of 17.8 per cent."

If Biden were announcing an 8.5 percent slump, Americans would have assassinated him by now. If word broke of inflation at 17.8 percent, the Democrats wouldn't be in power.

It's ludicrous that anyone can read an article that spells it out like this and assume Russia is winning any kind of economic war.

Do you know how bad it is based on those two figures?

 

[Snowblindlove]

You only have to cast a slightly sceptical eye over articles like these to come up with gems like this:

"That’s not to say Russia’s economy isn’t feeling the ill-effects of sanctions and a growing corporate boycott. The International Monetary Fund believes the economy will slump into a deep recession this year, shrinking by as much as 8.5 per cent. Inflation is also running a two-decade high of 17.8 per cent."

If Biden were announcing an 8.5 percent slump, Americans would have assassinated him by now. If word broke of inflation at 17.8 percent, the Democrats wouldn't be in power.

It's ludicrous that anyone can read an article that spells it out like this and assume Russia is winning any kind of economic war.

Do you know how bad it is based on those two figures?

Inflation is really 20%, did you see the thread? The BLS lies and Treasury lies as well claiming single digit lol

Well Biden will never admit that even if it is true and the IMF is clearly politically pro west which is why the Chinese and Russians etc set up the Asian development Bank and BRICs.

We will see in 1 year let alone 3 then we can see who is better off but im telling you the Russians will be better off than US

 

[Deleted member 585708]

Well Biden will never admit that even if it is true and the IMF is clearly politically pro west which is why the Chinese and Russians etc set up the Asian development Bank and BRICs.

We will see in 1 year let alone 3 then we can see who is better off

Just literally, even in basic terms, explain how Russia could possess more economic might than USA and Europe?

Then explain how anything can be going well, when Russia lost a massive amount of the global market for oil and gas overnight, AND that it's well-documented that Russia is forced to sell cheaper than ever before?

Just do the basic math for a minute... LOSS of market share... enforced LOWER price... Profits?

Be real about this.

Be real about the Ruble, which isn't being traded normally, as being strong, but so strong that it's a threat to the Russian economy?

Be real.

Is Russia REALLY winning an economic war?

 

[ferrisjso]

Like I said, if this narrative is correct, it was a moronic move.

You think every Ukrainian citizen was willing to risk their life in the Donbas region prior to the Russian invasion of Ukraine? No, they weren't, that's why the war was confined there.

You think they're prepared to fight Russia tooth and nail after they threatened Kyiv? Absolutely, and that's a categorical fact, and they've been seen as aggressive invaders from the East right across to the West ever since.

Their aggression in the port cities and the South only underlined the fact this was one country attacking another country, NOT a dispute over a specific piece of land.

The fact anyone buys into the lies that Russia only ever designed to capture the Donbas is ridiculous, but not surprising. Muddy the waters of logic often enough and from enough directions, people will just spinning in circles trying to reason everything.

If the Donbas was the target, nobody would have ever bothered Odesa. If the Donbas was the target, nobody would have marched on Kyiv with a 40 mile convoy.

What actually happened, was Russia was caught out being disorganised.

Don't think they're good guys with a limited scope of interest. They're not.

The southern regions were a goal because it established a land bridge between Crimea and LPR/DPR. Russia never limited themselves to just that land but while it's not clear where their goals end what is clear is Kiev and the west of Ukraine is not part of them.

Odessa is close to Crimea. To the south they are basically expanding Crimea while they are mostly heading East they went a little bit west. Like Kharkov being a little west of the Donbass, Odessas a major port just a little west of Crimea and naturally a target.

The logic behind going for Kiev wasn't that Ukraine wasn't willing to defend it but to quickly take the city in the early days of the war. It wasn't a "fient" it was an oppurtunity to dictate terms quickly with the enemy capital under control. This was a very common strategy in traditional pre 1945 wars take the capital government collapses and sues for peace. Capital is almost never siezed in these sorts of scenarios. It's usually border territories. In this case Ukranian lands near Crimea and Russia proper. For example German Empire was proclaimed in Versailles but Germany didn't take Paris they just had a victory party there and left. The land they took was Alsace-Lorraine.

Not saying Russia will limit themselves to the Donbass and land bridge if they have more success but I don't see them going past the Dneiper further north(this is the most extreme Russian expansion I see because A Dneipers a very defendable border and B beyond that the population would be overwhelmingly hostile). But the main goal was Donbass republics and the land bridge to the Donbass republics. What happens beyond that is largely up to the Ukranians ability to swallow their pride and settle(some point when Russia begins taking these areas with more neutral or slightly pro Ukrainian populations) but they clearly do not want the whole country. Could they take places like Kharkov though? Maybe.

In terms of the idea of them going to Transnistria Russia and Russian friendly forces have controlled that region for 30 years so Russia would not be making the first move there. While Moldova has not recognized Transnistrias independence they have not intefered with the areas independence practically and there has not been combat for the last 30 years since the early days following USSR's breakup. If Ukraine had just let LPR and DPR do their thing similarly(they didn't)this war wouldn't have happened. There was 8 years of Russian attempts to mediate. Russia's plan A was to use these regions to make Ukraine either pro Russian or at least not pro EU. This invasion was because that plan has failed and Russia is not willing to lose infleunce over these lands when Ukraine goes into EU and potentially NATO.

Once these territories leave Ukraine the Ukranian right will win every election for the indefinate future not just because "Russian invasion turned everyone into Ukranian nationalist"(lol) but because the core of their opponents political base will be gone. This is part of why Ukranians right wing politicans are being so delusional they SAY they want these lands but they will politically benefit from losing these territories in a war.

 

[deltapapha]

 

[MeatheadMike]

This analogy might have worked if Russia itself were not the biggest playground for corruption in Europe.

 

[SandisLL]

Yeah.
Kleptocracy, corruption, tax evasion and money laundering schemes. Crime. Nepotism and bribes as cultural norm.

Ukraine ofc too is " funny " , I don't think that Ukr should be in EU cos this.
Imho maybe soon ppl in EU will get reality about...Ukr too...

While these at least doesn't invade countries and doesn't threat us with nukes etc missiles...

 

[Anewt]

How does he honestly never get yellows ?