Russia/Ukraine Megathread V5

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LangfordBarrow said:
They probably aren't getting any concessions because the point needs to be made that we can't have land grabs like this anymore. It's not the 1930's world anymore and there are plenty of dictators around the world that would love to increase their power at the expense of their neighbors. Dropping sanctions and ceding the land they grabbed in '14 would set a bad precedent and fail to deter future military actions.
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The world has changed greatly since the 1930s, most notably with the nuclear weapon. It's why the run up to '14 and the armament since is so fucked up. Ultimately the end is the same, you have to sit down with the world's other nuclear superpower. The cost analysis from the west was to make Russia pay if it couldn't westernize Ukraine and have its corporations extract its resources, so now Ukrainians are making the payments in blood.

America set up a win/win situation. Either they get Ukraine and its resources into the fold, or get to ramp up the MIC, strengthen NATO, and weaken Russia without spilling blood. Putin was facing a lose/lose. Either Ukraine opens up its 14th largest gas reserves to Europe and undercuts Russian energy, or he invades to secure his lot and faces international sanctions. It was a stupid calculus for anyone that values harmony and human life to put that decision in Putin's hands. Unfortunately nation states don't give a shit about any of that, we'll dangle NATO in front of their face like a piece of candy to a child and tell them to get fucked when the rubber hits the road.

also dictator, despot, whatever.. none of that matters without a massive nuclear arsenal. North Korea would get glassed into oblivion if they invaded SKor with their 30ish nukes, because mutually assured destruction is not on the table.
 
cottagecheesefan said:
Yea and it isn’t just the US incompetence. I mean I get Poland, being right on the border with Belarus and not being as powerful. But it seems there is no coordination between NATO members with some of these things. It honestly shows how weak they and NATO are when they aren’t the ones in control and dictating everything

even with the sanctions. The US didn’t want to at first but then acted like everyone had to, but Germany, France and the UK were reluctant. Now the US is the only one who cut off Russian exports of oil, while the others lag behind.

but moreover it shows that none of these countries are going to help Ukraine here with anything other than kind words and economic warfare which Russia has way to bypass and currently are with China’s help.

How it started



how it is going



Absolute Shit show. Especially now how everyone and their momma in the media, twitterverse and even US officials are saying Ukraine needs these jets!
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We've already sent billions of dollars in weaponry to Ukraine. Jets are not gonna change the outcome and are merely an escalation. Ukraine cannot win. All they can do is put up enough of a resistance to pray that Russia lowers its demands to something Zelensky will accept.
 
Joe said:
What a staggering number.. thats already 40% of what they lost in afghanistan in 10 years
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Even if the numbers are half of that they are still huge numbers.

But not that shocking really, when you think about it.

-The afghans weren't as armed as ukrainians are today (quantity and quality)
-ukraine is a vast country territorialy, impossible to set up a true siege
-afghanistan population in 1980 was 13 million, ukraine now 44 million
-there is cameras everywhere in 2022 in ukraine, there weren't in afghanistan in the 80s, so the approach is different if you know what I mean
-russian soldiers morale is low right now, their job is to essentially kill their brothers in blood


Edit: I forgot to mention ukrainian farmers, they are something else
 
Seeing a hospital blown up is rough. Then factor in it’s a maternity hospital makes your blood boil. The citizens have to know peacefully protesting these invaders isn’t worth it. They need to gut these fucks.
 
Badr Hari said:
Even if the numbers are half of that they are still huge numbers.

But not that shocking really, when you think about it.

-The afghans weren't as armed as ukrainians are today (quantity and quality)
-ukraine is a vast country territorialy, impossible to set up a true siege
-afghanistan population in 1980 was 13 million, ukraine now 44 million
-there is cameras everywhere in 2022 in ukraine, there weren't in afghanistan in the 80s, so the approach is different if you know what I mean
-russian soldiers morale is low right now, their job is to essentially kill their brothers in blood


Edit: I forgot to mention ukrainian farmers, they are something else
Click to expand...

It's a really stupid idea to invade an enormous country these days.

There is so much going against you, and then when other nations back the country you're invading, it gets worse.

Putin is a paranoid idiot with no concept of what he's doing, and he probably isn't aware of how badly his army is faring.

If Ukraine doesn't agree to the annexation of Crimea and the Donbass, we can only assume Ukraine expect a victory which was unthinkable at first.

For all the posturing about No Fly Zones and Russia's nuclear arsenal, Russia isn't confident enough to utilise it's full fire power.

Long may that continue, and fuck Russia, and fuck Chechnya.
 
Badr Hari said:
Even if the numbers are half of that they are still huge numbers.

But not that shocking really, when you think about it.

-The afghans weren't as armed as ukrainians are today (quantity and quality)
-ukraine is a vast country territorialy, impossible to set up a true siege
-afghanistan population in 1980 was 13 million, ukraine now 44 million
-there is cameras everywhere in 2022 in ukraine, there weren't in afghanistan in the 80s, so the approach is different if you know what I mean
-russian soldiers morale is low right now, their job is to essentially kill their brothers in blood


Edit: I forgot to mention ukrainian farmers, they are something else
Click to expand...
- Ukraine is much more of a cohesive country away from the eastern parts than Afghanistan is as a whole.

A united resistance with instant communication and armed with better long range weapons is a different animal from tribal leaders with limited communication and outdated arms. Gps was a big factor in the first Iraq war and now we're seeing an extension of how big a difference real time communications can make. Napoleon, Alexander and Genghis Khan would have given anything for such knowledge.
 
MMA Time Soldier said:
If the Ukrainians are dominating this war so much as people are saying
then why do they keep screaming desperately for a No Fly Zone?
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I really don't think they're slowing the Russian advance to a great degree, but are exceeding expectations. What kind of resistance movement wouldn't want more advantages? Non sequitur.
 
MMA Time Soldier said:
If the Ukrainians are dominating this war so much as people are saying
then why do they keep screaming desperately for a No Fly Zone?
Click to expand...

They aren't "winning". It seems as though they are making things MUCH more difficult than Russia imagined it would be. To the point now where even if Russia topples Kyiv, it may be a Pyrrhic victory.

And they desperately want a no fly zone because...human cost and all that. We sit on a forum and analyze things...they are watching people die. Their brothers, sisters, their fucking CHILDREN. They are going to ask for ANY help they can get to stop that, no matter how "good" they are or aren't doing in the high level view.
 
blottstein said:
The world has changed greatly since the 1930s, most notably with the nuclear weapon. It's why the run up to '14 and the armament since is so fucked up. Ultimately the end is the same, you have to sit down with the world's other nuclear superpower. The cost analysis from the west was to make Russia pay if it couldn't westernize Ukraine and have its corporations extract its resources, so now Ukrainians are making the payments in blood.

America set up a win/win situation. Either they get Ukraine and its resources into the fold, or get to ramp up the MIC, strengthen NATO, and weaken Russia without spilling blood. Putin was facing a lose/lose. Either Ukraine opens up its 14th largest gas reserves to Europe and undercuts Russian energy, or he invades to secure his lot and faces international sanctions. It was a stupid calculus for anyone that values harmony and human life to put that decision in Putin's hands. Unfortunately nation states don't give a shit about any of that, we'll dangle NATO in front of their face like a piece of candy to a child and tell them to get fucked when the rubber hits the road.

also dictator, despot, whatever.. none of that matters without a massive nuclear arsenal. North Korea would get glassed into oblivion if they invaded SKor with their 30ish nukes, because mutually assured destruction is not on the table.
Click to expand...
So the west failed to westernize Ukraine and now they want to make Russia pay by goading Putin to invade? Russia had already basically annexed large swaths of Ukraine and their recognizing the area as independent states before declaring war evidences that. Was the west supposed to reject Ukraine's sovereignty and leave them to their fate?

What about the citizens do you think they were all pawns being deceived by the west and not normal citizens preferring a democratic government and wanting to align themselves with more prosperous countries?
 
Danger Dave said:
republicans and democrats can finally unite. we squabble and argue about petty shit but when back is to the wall and children are dying, well im just a lego salesman.

16270467_0.jpg
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Are you gonna donate any Lego to the Ukraine to help out? I've heard reports of shortages and russian soldiers stealing it
 
blaseblah said:
We've already sent billions of dollars in weaponry to Ukraine. Jets are not gonna change the outcome and are merely an escalation. Ukraine cannot win. All they can do is put up enough of a resistance to pray that Russia lowers its demands to something Zelensky will accept.
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And time is on his side. Barring Putin just flat out threatening nuclear war if he doesn't get their eastern territory.
 
Siver! said:
It's a really stupid idea to invade an enormous country these days.

There is so much going against you, and then when other nations back the country you're invading, it gets worse.

Putin is a paranoid idiot with no concept of what he's doing, and he probably isn't aware of how badly his army is faring.

If Ukraine doesn't agree to the annexation of Crimea and the Donbass, we can only assume Ukraine expect a victory which was unthinkable at first.

For all the posturing about No Fly Zones and Russia's nuclear arsenal, Russia isn't confident enough to utilise it's full fire power.

Long may that continue, and fuck Russia, and fuck Chechnya.
Click to expand...
I don't think Ukraine can win in any conventional way. If this drags on for months and years it would be as an insurgency. Putin has a firm grip on the eastern part of the country but it's unlikely he'd be able to install a puppet regime without most of the country rebelling.

I think it's the unity of the international community in placing sanctions that really have Putin on the hot seat now. For all his expansionist goals this decision might cause him to be a big fish in a much smaller pond.
 
Putin: I am only invading Ukraine because joining NATO threatens us. Is only for protection

Ukraine: We will not join NATO

Putin: I want all of Ukraine!!!

 
Ukrainian Mom Photographed Dead in a Gutter Was Silicon Valley Tech Worker


AAURtHN.img


"Photos of Tatiana Perebeinis and her kids lying in a gutter, surrounded by suitcases and pet carriers, ran on the front page of The New York Times on Tuesday and reverberated around the world. Palo Alto startup SE Ranking, a tech company whose 110 employees are split between California and Ukraine, confirmed the photos showed Tatiana, 43, their Irpin-based chief accountant, her daughter Alise, 9, and son Nikita, 18.

“We are so shocked, saddened, devastated, angry,” company spokeswoman Ksenia Khirvonina told the San Francisco Chronicle. “There are no words to describe our emotions, we are so heartbroken.”

While driving toward the capital, the family was eventually forced to leave their car to cross a bridge near Kyiv, where a mortar shell landed nearby, killing Tatiana, her two children, and the church volunteer. Tatiana’s parents survived the incident.

Tatiana’s colleagues, friends, and family members have shared tributes to the mother of two across social media. One colleague described her on Facebook as “bright, witty, and determined.”

“A couple of weeks ago we drank wine, laughed, and walked among the mountains together,” one colleague wrote. “You were like a big sister.”

Ukrainian Mom Photographed Dead in a Gutter Was Silicon Valley Tech Worker (msn.com)

Heartbreaking.
 
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