Russia/Ukraine Megathread V5

[Da Speeit]

You're trying to argue on all fronts again and missing basic information.

I'll let you do you, because you're not concentrating properly if you're missing what I'm saying about Putin's pointed classification of Zelensky as a Nazi. Yes, I know that's propaganda aimed at the Russian people, but you can't denazify nazis without denazifying them LMAO.

No need for the mental acrobatics.

WHat basic information?
Dude, I don't put as much stock in his De-Nazify line as you guys do. And by "You guys" i mean everyone who keeps repeating it as some "Checkmate". I think he used it as a rhetorical device to get the public on his side to invade a country. I don't think it was or is his endgame and I don't think he wanted to displace or depose Zelensky with the entire world watching. I think his goal was and has been to undermine Zelensky and take as much from him as possible without going in for the kill and render him a greatly stunted leader.

I've brought up a full scope of means as to how he could do this and you keep saying it's mental gymnastics but you're the one who can't move on from one piece of bullshit propaganda from Putin. I don't think it matters. You have to accept that's my POV. I don't think it matters. It's very probable it doesn't.

 

[Deleted member 585708]

What on earth are you talking about?

I'm not sure cucks try to stymie anyone lol

Isn't it the exact opposite? <Lmaoo>

 

[Da Speeit]

It was one estimation and your source said nothing about that estimation being changed, it just pointed to that there are other estimations, both lower and higher. Why are you trying to say that it says something it doesn't when the text is plain to see?

People that have paid attention have seen different estimations all the time so nothing has changed in that regard.

The only sources posted to the numbers have been the CNN article I just posted and the NYT article it referenced.

You have any Mr. Pays Attention?

 

[Deleted member 585708]

WHat basic information?
Dude, I don't put as much stock in his De-Nazify line as you guys do. And by "You guys" i mean everyone who keeps repeating it as some "Checkmate". I think he used it as a rhetorical device to get the public on his side to invade a country. I don't think it was or is his endgame and I don't think he wanted to displace or depose Zelensky with the entire world watching. I think his goal was and has been to undermine Zelensky and take as much from him as possible without going in for the kill and render him a greatly stunted leader.

I've brought up a full scope of means as to how he could do this and you keep saying it's mental gymnastics but you're the one who can't move on from one piece of bullshit propaganda from Putin. I don't think it matters. You have to accept that's my POV. I don't think it matters. It's very probable it doesn't.

I can move on, and if you want to think he didn't mean it when he called Zelensky a nazi, so be it.

But it's MUCH easier for Putin to address the real Nazis in the areas of Ukraine he ACTUALLY wants to denazify than include the President and his government, which he clearly did, multiple times.

He signalled very clearly who he was including in his targets when he invaded the Ukraine proper, and Zelensky was definitely one of them.

If your argument is it was just clumsy wordplay from the guvnor, so be it, but I don't see any reason for anyone to believe that.

 

[Da Speeit]

What on earth are you talking about?

Mig discussion, inner fighting about support and fielding troops, energy, Macron, Poland, "No Fly Zone" discussion.
Bunch of imaginary red lines talked about then backed off.

The only thing they've managed to do is put a ton of financial pressure on a regime that has a ton of options through China, Iran, UAE, Sauis, India, etc. and even then we're promising flexibility while they mediate our Iran dealings.

 

[Darkballs]

So you're just guessing.

No. From every objective measure, being stalled outside a city for weeks while your armor gets destroyed is not a sound strategy.

 

[Squarechoke]

The only sources posted to the numbers have been the CNN article I just posted and the NYT article it referenced.

You have any Mr. Pays Attention?

You didn't answer why you were making statements that weren't supported by your source.

I've seen plenty of various numbers reported here in Sweden, but unfortunately the paper I read tend to archive into a paid section so I can't dig them up, but your source already said that there are multiple estimates, and gave a wide span for it. The numbers I've seen fit within that span, apart from the Russian and Ukranian ones of course.

 

[Da Speeit]

I can move on, and if you want to think he didn't mean it when he called Zelensky a nazi, so be it.

But it's MUCH easier for Putin to address the real Nazis in the areas of Ukraine he ACTUALLY wants to denazify than include the President and his government, which he clearly did, multiple times.

He signalled very clearly who he was including in his targets when he invaded the Ukraine proper, and Zelensky was definitely one of them.

If your argument is it was just clumsy wordplay from the guvnor, so be it, but I don't see any reason for anyone to believe that.

Maybe he meant it, it doesn't make it relevant.
It's the entire basis from your POV, to the point you can't think about how NATO aspirations were a major part of Zelensky's presidential platform and if Vlad gets him to give those up, as well as treating the East as a loss, Vlad has stymied a massive amount of Zelensky's intrigue and influence as a whole. You can't consider it because you're obsessed with this silly Nazi stuff.

 

[Da Speeit]

No. From every objective measure, being stalled outside a city for weeks while your armor gets destroyed is not a sound strategy.

So what if the goal is to not take the city and just maintain an apparatus?
If someone is parked outside of your house for weeks would you imagine, maybe just consider, their intent is to wait you out and intimidate you? Or would you think "huh, he hasn't beaten my door down yet, so he must be waiting for his friend to drop him off a couple bottles of water and a red bull"

Your entire "objective" POV comes from the assumption that Vlad wants Kiev. There is very little evidence that is his objective and plenty to the contrary.

 

[Darkballs]

So what if the goal is to not take the city and just maintain an apparatus?

Then your decision to park your vehicles within striking distance of said city and getting them destroyed would be an even dumber strategy.

 

[bad mojo]

@Da Speeit you're doing magnificently in this thread, man. Despite being outnumbered. I hope Moscow pays you well.

 

[Deleted member 585708]

Maybe he meant it, it doesn't make it relevant.
It's the entire basis from your POV, to the point you can't think about how NATO aspirations were a major part of Zelensky's presidential platform and if Vlad gets him to give those up, as well as treating the East as a loss, Vlad has stymied a massive amount of Zelensky's intrigue and influence as a whole. You can't consider it because you're obsessed with this silly Nazi stuff.

I've acknowledged several times that NATO was a major antagonist for Putin, so you're wrong.

When you're arguing with multiple people on every single point, though, I can see why you can't remember who thinks/says what.

I'm absolutely not opposed to the idea Putin is waging a proxy war on NATO lol

It's basically a given.

 

[Da Speeit]

You didn't answer why you were making statements that weren't supported by your source.

I've seen plenty of various numbers reported here in Sweden, but unfortunately the paper I read tend to archive into a paid section so I can't dig them up, but your source already said that there are multiple estimates, and gave a wide span for it. The numbers I've seen fit within that span, apart from the Russian and Ukranian ones of course.

I said the floor was 3. The floor is 3.

Ah, so you can't source any of the numbers, but I'm just supposed to trust you. Got it. The numbers "Fit". Uh huhn.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

There was a violent uprising. That is a coup.
Prior to 3 weeks ago everyone in the western world recognized it was a 'Revolution' or 'Coup' now it's wrong to say it was.

You guys smh

Just come to terms with reality instead of trying to change the definitions or words to fit your emotions. He can be a bad guy and still be the subject of a coup. The coup could be just. There have been just coups and revolutions. That doesn't mean they're not coups and revolutions.

Those words don't mean the same thing. The people revolted against the government it wasn't the military or legislature trying to obtain power in a coup. You wouldn't say Washington led the American Coup. Or that a junta takes over the government in a revolution.

 

[Deleted member 585708]

Those words don't mean the same thing. The people revolted against the government it wasn't the military or legislature trying to obtain power in a coup. You wouldn't say Washington led the American Coup. Or that a junta takes over the government in a revolution.

It's like watching a football/soccer game and seeing a bad foul, then decided mentally that it's a red card, despite nobody getting sent off or suspended.

That's literally how far the Ukrainian situation was from being a coup.

 

[Squarechoke]

I said the floor was 3. The floor is 3.

Ah, so you can't source any of the numbers, but I'm just supposed to trust you. Got it. The numbers "Fit". Uh huhn.

Ah, I see I missed a word when I read. My bad on that one then.

Not much point in sourcing the numbers when they are referred to in your link, so they clearly exist. I assume you believe the information in that link since you used that as a source.

 

[Da Speeit]

@Da Speeit you're doing magnificently in this thread, man. Despite being outnumbered. I hope Moscow pays you well.

It aint much but its honest work

Spoiler

 

[Da Speeit]

Ah, I see I missed a word when I read. My bad on that one then.

Not much point in sourcing the numbers when they are referred to in your link, so they clearly exist. I assume you believe the information in that link since you used that as a source.

It's all good, there's a lot going on.
I don't believe Russia, the US or Ukraine in any of this. The problem is these numbers come from "anonymous sources within the intel community's estimations". That could be a coffee-fetcher at the pentagon.

 

[Deleted member 585708]

It aint much but its honest work

Spoiler

Fake.

Putin always signs off with Glory to Crussia.

Known fact.

 

[Da Speeit]

Then your decision to park your vehicles within striking distance of said city and getting them destroyed would be an even dumber strategy.

Do you know anything about Russian military history?